Is anyone losing interest

[topaz325]

I,m not losing interest but without a local team to support now (Workington) i look forward to trips away to Belle vue and Glasgow where i know i,m virtually guaranteed good racing and a good environment to watch.

I also look forward to the GPs on tv and the occasional weekend away to Poland for a GP pre Covid but it could be a while before any foreign travel for me!

It would have been good to be able to watch the SEC live but i am not paying out  to another tv company even though i can afford it.

As for the weekly televised meetings most have been ok but we are a million miles away from the Polish standards.  

 

[IainB]

4 minutes ago, Sings4Speedway said:

but surely by mentioning that these names will be tearing it up across Europe in a few years rather than plying their trade in the UK shows the big issues in the sport in the UK and as a whole? 

Also as a side note i don't buy the clubs nurturing these riders, yes credit can be given to clubs who take a chance on a rider without credentials and they turn into something but all those listed above could have their pick of teams and the only reason the clubs are interested is to their own benefit. They were nurtured by their dedicated families and support networks who put all the miles in when they were starting out.

I don't think anybody is under the illusion that clubs wouldn't hesitate to drop any of these riders at the drop of a hat if their averages didn't fit. Yes there are issues within the sport, we all know that. I don't claim to know the complete history of these riders and how they've come to be at the standard that they are... but somebody is doing something right somewhere as I've not seen a crop of youngster like this since the days of Loram, Louis, Screen, Dugard, Barker, Norris, Havelock, Silver, Stonehewer who were all BU21 rostrum placed in late 80's / early 90's.

You can only develop a young rider to a certain point and at that point they have to "go it alone" and build a career on the development they have been given to that point.

Have you been to watch any of these riders?

[Sings4Speedway]

2 minutes ago, iainb said:

I don't think anybody is under the illusion that clubs wouldn't hesitate to drop any of these riders at the drop of a hat if their averages didn't fit. Yes there are issues within the sport, we all know that. I don't claim to know the complete history of these riders and how they've come to be at the standard that they are... but somebody is doing something right somewhere as I've not seen a crop of youngster like this since the days of Loram, Louis, Screen, Dugard, Barker, Norris, Havelock, Silver, Stonehewer who were all BU21 rostrum placed in late 80's / early 90's.

You can only develop a young rider to a certain point and at that point they have to "go it alone" and build a career on the development they have been given to that point.

Have you been to watch any of these riders?

Ive been watching Brennan, Rowe and Thompsons for a good number of years when they were hacking round doing laps after meetings (the miles Del & Anders put in was mind blowing). The Thompsons could utilise Leicester, Coventry and Brum often in the same week without quite such brutal travel and obviously Brennan had plenty of local track access. Plain & Flint ive seen a bit less of so 6-8 times each and there are others coming up through the ranks who will soon be joining them like Max James and Luke Harrison.

[IainB]

1 minute ago, Sings4Speedway said:

Ive been watching Brennan, Rowe and Thompsons for a good number of years when they were hacking round doing laps after meetings (the miles Del & Anders put in was mind blowing). The Thompsons could utilise Leicester, Coventry and Brum often in the same week without quite such brutal travel and obviously Brennan had plenty of local track access. Plain & Flint ive seen a bit less of so 6-8 times each and there are others coming up through the ranks who will soon be joining them like Max James and Luke Harrison.

You're perhaps not as surprised at their progress as I am then... I've only really seen the twins mascoting at Coventry and Leicester, which is why I'm so surprised to see all these kids "burst" onto my scene at once

[old bob at herne bay]

Let's not get too arried away wth the progresss of these youngsters. When you look at UK speedway 2021 they aint exxactly got a lot to beat if they are half decent.

Team buidlign averaes weakened, r/r in almost every side , up and coming stars in every team and a few rabbits whose averages fit plus a sprinkling of "old hands". You have picked the best of the bunch, but they were already good prospects last season, and the season before that . The weak state of UK speedway leagues 2021 helps them along .

[IainB]

3 minutes ago, old bob at herne bay said:

Let's not get too arried away wth the progresss of these youngsters. When you look at UK speedway 2021 they aint exxactly got a lot to beat if they are half decent.

Team buidlign averaes weakened, r/r in almost every side , up and coming stars in every team and a few rabbits whose averages fit plus a sprinkling of "old hands". You have picked the best of the bunch, but they were already good prospects last season, and the season before that . The weak state of UK speedway leagues 2021 helps them along .

Have you seen them at all?

[Haywood]

4 hours ago, George Dodds said:

Because it's £7 a meeting cheaper to stay at home.

I don't know the cost base of ice hockey and, more importantly, do not know if the model they follow is designed to break even/make money. 

Perhaps they have a demographic which attracts sponsors to a level where they can substantially subsidise costs. Perhaps some of the club owners own streaming platforms/productuoin companies, perhaps they are able to use internal filming systems used by the venues for concerts etc.

Does it make money or run at a loss?

I know when I was involved with ice hockey in east London in the 1980s the rinks ran professional teams at a major loss because they were ways of attracting fans to the rink, in the hope that they could attract them back for public sessions, to use the bars etc. 

I'm not arguing that streaming is useless; simply that because one sport does it that doesn't mean it's a cash cow for every sport.

Football, rugby, cricket all struggle to make streaming profitable.

What I do think too many people who argue that streaming is the future ignore/don't understand/couldn't care less about is the idea that every stream sold is profit. That's just not the case. It only becomes profit once you've covered the cost of providing the stream in the first place.

Otherwise it's just another loss-making element to a sport already living way beyond its means in this country. 

When they looking at TV deals there were concerns at protecting revenue from streaming. Gave me the impression it contributed to the coffers.

I appreciate streaming comes with costs and I myself made some the calculations with the Poole stream a few weeks back. Surprised if they made money although they seem to be giving it another go so most of have been somewhere near break even at least?

[George Dodds]

10 minutes ago, Haywood said:

When they looking at TV deals there were concerns at protecting revenue from streaming. Gave me the impression it contributed to the coffers.

I appreciate streaming comes with costs and I myself made some the calculations with the Poole stream a few weeks back. Surprised if they made money although they seem to be giving it another go so most of have been somewhere near break even at least?

I think for once there is a bit of long-term planning in the TV deal. If technology costs continue to fall there could come a time when streaming is viable - or someone may come in with a financial deal which underwrites its cost (unlikely but lots of things that were unimaginable two decades ago are now commonplace).

In an ideal world a broadcast partner would be recording all meetings and then the stream would be available at no additional cost.

But you have to laugh that many on here who claim that streaming is the future are the same that tell you that people won't go to speedway if they can't pay cash on the gate. If you're too doddery and internet inept to buy a ticket then what chance buying a livestream?   

[mikebv]

48 minutes ago, old bob at herne bay said:

Let's not get too arried away wth the progresss of these youngsters. When you look at UK speedway 2021 they aint exxactly got a lot to beat if they are half decent.

Team buidlign averaes weakened, r/r in almost every side , up and coming stars in every team and a few rabbits whose averages fit plus a sprinkling of "old hands". You have picked the best of the bunch, but they were already good prospects last season, and the season before that . The weak state of UK speedway leagues 2021 helps them along .

Since around the mid eighties...

Screen, Loram, Cox, Cross, Wigg, Havelock, Tatum, Smith, Dugard, Knight, Thorpe, Doncaster, Harris, Nicholls,  Cook, Louis, Woffinden, King, Lambert, Bewley....

And probably more I have missed...

All have competed at the very top World or European level, with many of them winning or reaching the rostrum at that level..

Which shows that producing top class English/GB riders who can compete at the very highest level hasn't really been a problem since the sport began...

The issue since circa 1985 is that most teams stopped using loads of English/GB lads below that level to fill up their teams with, and instead used riders of a similar level from around the globe, (journeymen without being disrespectful), to fill these slots...

These youngsters coming through are not necessarily the 'next gen' of World Champions, (some may reach the level of the riders mentioned), but hopefully most will go on to provide a constant stream of 'mid level' riders with which to fill teams with and, hopefully have enough 'top level' lads to get "Team GB" back up consistently at, or near,  the top of the rostrums of the various FIM events..

And, as having a consistently victorious 'national team' is is the only way the sport can get the mainstream media and major company sponsorship involvment it needs to grow the domestic leagues, then lets hope the plan to get these lads plenty of racing opportunities and development works..

When at least five out of seven riders in every team is British, and there is a clear demarcation between all the leagues, (be they two or three), then the domestic product may once again start to attract more interest...

[steve roberts]

2 hours ago, mikebv said:

Since around the mid eighties...

Screen, Loram, Cox, Cross, Wigg, Havelock, Tatum, Smith, Dugard, Knight, Thorpe, Doncaster, Harris, Nicholls,  Cook, Louis, Woffinden, King, Lambert, Bewley....

And probably more I have missed...

All have competed at the very top World or European level, with many of them winning or reaching the rostrum at that level..

Which shows that producing top class English/GB riders who can compete at the very highest level hasn't really been a problem since the sport began...

The issue since circa 1985 is that most teams stopped using loads of English/GB lads below that level to fill up their teams with, and instead used riders of a similar level from around the globe, (journeymen without being disrespectful), to fill these slots...

These youngsters coming through are not necessarily the 'next gen' of World Champions, (some may reach the level of the riders mentioned), but hopefully most will go on to provide a constant stream of 'mid level' riders with which to fill teams with and, hopefully have enough 'top level' lads to get "Team GB" back up consistently at, or near,  the top of the rostrums of the various FIM events..

And, as having a consistently victorious 'national team' is is the only way the sport can get the mainstream media and major company sponsorship involvment it needs to grow the domestic leagues, then lets hope the plan to get these lads plenty of racing opportunities and development works..

When at least five out of seven riders in every team is British, and there is a clear demarcation between all the leagues, (be they two or three), then the domestic product may once again start to attract more interest...

The old Second Division/National League produced a hot bed of British youngsters (and a few Anzacs!) and it's no accident that when the National League and British League went their seperate ways the talent began to dry up and the National Team lost its world dominance.

Edited June 30, 2021 by steve roberts

[Diamondboy]

On 6/27/2021 at 11:14 PM, hrhbig said:

What would happen if Scotland got independence ?

There would be a national holiday in England.

[mikebv]

12 minutes ago, Diamondboy said:

There would be a national holiday in England.

And a reduction in income tax...

[phillwhitewasmad]

7 hours ago, Sings4Speedway said:

but surely by mentioning that these names will be tearing it up across Europe in a few years rather than plying their trade in the UK shows the big issues in the sport in the UK and as a whole? 

Also as a side note i don't buy the clubs nurturing these riders, yes credit can be given to clubs who take a chance on a rider without credentials and they turn into something but all those listed above could have their pick of teams and the only reason the clubs are interested is to their own benefit. They were nurtured by their dedicated families and support networks who put all the miles in when they were starting out.

In our experience of the system I would always give massive credit to scunthorpe and Berwick when mentioning the development of my lad both clubs have been fantastic to him from being very young .  Yes as parents we do put in the hard yards and to an extent put our lives on hold for speedway but it's family time and treated that way. 

[Trees]

6 hours ago, iainb said:

Have you seen them at all?

Of course he hasn't hence no reply ......

[Deano]

If streaming isn't viable to a current aging disappearing fanbase, how do you get youngsters addicted? They certainly aren't coming through the turnstiles. Every bit of television my kids watch is via an app "on demand", they never watch any tv in the traditional sense.

[steve roberts]

21 minutes ago, Deano said:

If streaming isn't viable to a current aging disappearing fanbase, how do you get youngsters addicted? They certainly aren't coming through the turnstiles. Every bit of television my kids watch is via an app "on demand", they never watch any tv in the traditional sense.

I do wonder sometimes what is the target audience with all these trashy 'celebrity' based shows aimed at? I've never heard of the majority of the so-called celebrities who are featured on these programmes! TV has been so dumbed down I watch very little 'live' programmes preferring to delve into my extemsive DVD collection.

Edited July 1, 2021 by steve roberts

[IainB]

1 hour ago, Deano said:

If streaming isn't viable to a current aging disappearing fanbase, how do you get youngsters addicted? They certainly aren't coming through the turnstiles. Every bit of television my kids watch is via an app "on demand", they never watch any tv in the traditional sense.

I've been going on about this for a while, it ain't going to be cheap, but I do think British Speedway needs some kind of interactive app to attract the kids, especially on race night, with interactive collectables etc.

Just something simple, like get selfies with all of the riders in an online album like the old Panini sticker books... and a club emblem badge hidden around the stadium somewhere.

Not sure how you'd do swaps though... got, got, got, got, got, got, got, NEED! 

Edited July 1, 2021 by iainb

[moxey63]

Over the years, in large, speedway has relied on regular fans introducing family members or friends to keep it going. The problem arises when these regulars stop attending or pass away, and then speedway's next generation disappears with them.

The sport is more than just about the racing spectacle. It sounds off-putting, but newcomers need to be introduced to the art of filling in a programme as soon as possible. Otherwise, however thrilling it initially is - four men skidding at speed into bends - it gets tedious before the end of the night when you don't know what's going on. I recall my first visit in 1975. Until I discovered the merits of keeping a programme, it was thrilling but I wasn't hooked.

Perhaps clubs, if they already haven't, should make a special effort to encourage newcomers in groups. Educate them on the basics of the sport and not rely on keeping them just because it's a great spectacle. Speedway is more than that.

 

[IainB]

12 minutes ago, moxey63 said:

Over the years, in large, speedway has relied on regular fans introducing family members or friends to keep it going. The problem arises when these regulars stop attending or pass away, and then speedway's next generation disappears with them.

The sport is more than just about the racing spectacle. It sounds off-putting, but newcomers need to be introduced to the art of filling in a programme as soon as possible. Otherwise, however thrilling it initially is - four men skidding at speed into bends - it gets tedious before the end of the night when you don't know what's going on. I recall my first visit in 1975. Until I discovered the merits of keeping a programme, it was thrilling but I wasn't hooked.

Perhaps clubs, if they already haven't, should make a special effort to encourage newcomers in groups. Educate them on the basics of the sport and not rely on keeping them just because it's a great spectacle. Speedway is more than that.

 

It's an extra £3 for a prog these days though. Perhaps you should get a free race card on entry and then if you choose buy a "Match Day Magazine" for £3.

And like I said in a previous post, free entry to the 2nd halves is what initially got me started... to lump out £20 on something you may or may not like is quite a lot these days, especially when there are generally no other offers these days since they stopped reducing the price of TV matches.

Edited July 1, 2021 by iainb

[Hacksaw Jim Duggan]

the art of filling in a programme.