moxey63 Posted June 29, 2021 Report Share Posted June 29, 2021 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Hacksaw Jim Duggan said: Have you ever actually attended or even watched a game of NBA, NFL or Rugby? No. Totally different sports. Thought it was a speedway forum. Like asking do I prefer Frank Sinatra's version of My Way or the Sex Pistols' attempt. Edited June 29, 2021 by moxey63 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacksaw Jim Duggan Posted June 29, 2021 Report Share Posted June 29, 2021 Just now, moxey63 said: No. Totally different sports. Thought it was a speedway forum. Like asking do I prefer Frank Sinatra's version of My Way or the Sex Pistols' attempt. Thought not, totally out of touch with the younger audience you attempt to speak for, you are clearly old don't try and pretend you have the first clue what young people are like. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted June 29, 2021 Report Share Posted June 29, 2021 Just now, Hacksaw Jim Duggan said: Thought not, totally out of touch with the younger audience you attempt to speak for, you are clearly old don't try and pretend you have the first clue what young people are like. They don't seem to like speedway, judging by the crowds I see on TV. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacksaw Jim Duggan Posted June 29, 2021 Report Share Posted June 29, 2021 Just now, moxey63 said: They don't seem to like speedway, judging by the crowds I see on TV. They don't because it's mostly pish, but let's not try and even pretend for a second you are relevant enough to know what it is young people do or don't like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted June 29, 2021 Report Share Posted June 29, 2021 Just now, Hacksaw Jim Duggan said: The idiot can be found in your mirror. The idiots are the ones still paying nearly £20 to attend speedway despite saying it's poor value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted June 29, 2021 Report Share Posted June 29, 2021 2 minutes ago, Hacksaw Jim Duggan said: The idiot can be found in your mirror. Childish, JIm. Think your saw's losing its teeth. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted June 29, 2021 Report Share Posted June 29, 2021 2 minutes ago, Hacksaw Jim Duggan said: They don't because it's mostly pish, but let's not try and even pretend for a second you are relevant enough to know what it is young people do or don't like. It is mostly pish, Jim. That's why the sport is clinging on to the few diehards who just like keeping scores in their programme. Somehow, I cannot see the young brigade rushing to save it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacksaw Jim Duggan Posted June 29, 2021 Report Share Posted June 29, 2021 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waytogo28 Posted June 29, 2021 Report Share Posted June 29, 2021 19 hours ago, Harry The Goat said: I'm with you, waytogo28. I too believe streaming could be a lifesaver, but there seems to be disappointingly little of it happening at present and it doesn't seem very well publicised. I'm amazed that more clubs are not trying it, and that the ones that are are not shouting louder about it. Do they want to get people watching or not? If there *is* a central place to locate available livestreams, I've yet to find it. I had to dig up all the info below myself by laboriously looking through the websites of each club in the Premiership, Championship and NDL. There appear to be just three regular livestreams right now: Glasgow - https://tv.glasgowtigers.co.uk/ (£11.95, next meeting on Friday 2nd July) Edinburgh - https://www.edinburghmonarchs.co.uk/live-stream (£11.99, not sure of next meeting) Poole - https://www.poole-speedway.com/pirates-tv (£9.95, next meeting on Wednesday 30th June) Berwick have used streaming but only for occasional one-off meetings, I think. Don't know why they don't do regular meetings. This week I am planning to visit Poole on Wednesday and Glasgow on Friday while simultaneously remaining in the West Country without leaving my armchair :-) Thank you HtG for doing what I just could not be bothered to do. I feel that an "industry" that would like you to give them your custom should make it easy - much easier than it currently is ( from your experience ). But that is speedway UK and that is part of the reaon it is slowly dying. May well try a match from Glasgow and possibly Poole. I would also be happy to buy in to a Polish stream for league matches there but cannot locate the How To. Amazingly after Eurosport 1 & 2 failing to show the SEC, I see that they will be showing the next round this Saturday at 6 pm. Looking forward to the GPs on BT. Armchair speedway is amazingly less stressful and more than adequate for me. I can see more than when I was in the stands at King's Lynn. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dodds Posted June 29, 2021 Report Share Posted June 29, 2021 19 hours ago, Harry The Goat said: I'm with you, waytogo28. I too believe streaming could be a lifesaver, but there seems to be disappointingly little of it happening at present and it doesn't seem very well publicised. I'm amazed that more clubs are not trying it, and that the ones that are are not shouting louder about it. Do they want to get people watching or not? If there *is* a central place to locate available livestreams, I've yet to find it. I had to dig up all the info below myself by laboriously looking through the websites of each club in the Premiership, Championship and NDL. There appear to be just three regular livestreams right now: Glasgow - https://tv.glasgowtigers.co.uk/ (£11.95, next meeting on Friday 2nd July) Edinburgh - https://www.edinburghmonarchs.co.uk/live-stream (£11.99, not sure of next meeting) Poole - https://www.poole-speedway.com/pirates-tv (£9.95, next meeting on Wednesday 30th June) Berwick have used streaming but only for occasional one-off meetings, I think. Don't know why they don't do regular meetings. This week I am planning to visit Poole on Wednesday and Glasgow on Friday while simultaneously remaining in the West Country without leaving my armchair :-) Because it barely made enough money to cover the streaming costs on two occasions when it was the only live speedway - indeed live sport of any description - available to watch in the world so there is little reason to genuinely think that on any normal night that enough people would pay for a stream to generate the profits need to cover the costs of team racing (bearing in mind the profit must be enough to pay rider's wages for the reverse fixture too). The three livestreaming clubs mentioned all currently have crowd capacities restricted to less than they would normally expect to go through the turnstiles in "normal" circumstances thus, theoretically, creating a demand for streaming. According to the on-screen counter of the Poole v Berwick livestream a "high" of 290 tuned in at £9. Less than £3,000. Can't imagine there was much left over once you've paid a production company and a screening platform. Bradford City's CEO said that when, during Covid, they offered streaming to fans the take-up was such that they took around half what they would expect to get from selling burgers at a normal match - and that was providing a Sky-quality multi-camera stream and for one of the better supported lower league clubs. Also a genuine question. Why would anyone pay £17 to watch in person when you could buy a stream for a tenner? Streaming might provide an alternative (lesser) source of income for clubs; I really don't seen how anyone who genuinely takes the time to balance out the costs/returns of staging meetings can see it as an untapped source of extra income. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waytogo28 Posted June 29, 2021 Report Share Posted June 29, 2021 22 hours ago, chunky said: 3) Readjusting chains is NOT boring. In fact, it can compare quite favourably to some of the racing I see... I think the heats you are referring to are not speedway racing but 1/2 lap from the gate motorcyle events. Very little interest / effort put in after that first 1/2 lap. For me, sppedway racing involves passing or at least the possibility of being close enought to pass ( or take advantage of a mistake by the rider in front ). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted June 29, 2021 Report Share Posted June 29, 2021 7 hours ago, waytogo28 said: I think the heats you are referring to are not speedway racing but 1/2 lap from the gate motorcyle events. Very little interest / effort put in after that first 1/2 lap. For me, sppedway racing involves passing or at least the possibility of being close enought to pass ( or take advantage of a mistake by the rider in front ). This is the thing, people say that winning rider's should do a lap of honour but they'd already done 3 laps of honour previous 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old bob at herne bay Posted June 29, 2021 Report Share Posted June 29, 2021 If only the streaming services could just show the 15 heats of racing and auto edit out all the fannying about at the starts, false starts,trackside bike adjustments before every heat and tractor racing every 4 heats.. 15 heats of action in a programme that would last about 20 minutes tops. I would pay for that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haywood Posted June 30, 2021 Report Share Posted June 30, 2021 17 hours ago, George Dodds said: Also a genuine question. Why would anyone pay £17 to watch in person when you could buy a stream for a tenner? Streaming might provide an alternative (lesser) source of income for clubs; I really don't seen how anyone who genuinely takes the time to balance out the costs/returns of staging meetings can see it as an untapped source of extra income. I would have that question the other way round. Why by a stream if you can attend in person? Streams should be aimed at away fans or those who can't attend in person, either because of covid restrictions or personal commitments. Yes, the market is small although from what I can gather streaming income does make a valuable income for some Ice Hockey clubs. Given the prices are broadly similar, then does that suggest they have lower costs or a bigger take up? How Basketball managed to offer £20 a month to watch all home games for 9 different clubs I don't know. That seems cheap compared to elsewhere. Would pooling resources and putting everything on a shared platform lead to significant cost reductions? Seems unlikely although it does make it easier for the end user. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dodds Posted June 30, 2021 Report Share Posted June 30, 2021 55 minutes ago, Haywood said: I would have that question the other way round. Why by a stream if you can attend in person? Streams should be aimed at away fans or those who can't attend in person, either because of covid restrictions or personal commitments. Yes, the market is small although from what I can gather streaming income does make a valuable income for some Ice Hockey clubs. Given the prices are broadly similar, then does that suggest they have lower costs or a bigger take up? How Basketball managed to offer £20 a month to watch all home games for 9 different clubs I don't know. That seems cheap compared to elsewhere. Would pooling resources and putting everything on a shared platform lead to significant cost reductions? Seems unlikely although it does make it easier for the end user. Because it's £7 a meeting cheaper to stay at home. I don't know the cost base of ice hockey and, more importantly, do not know if the model they follow is designed to break even/make money. Perhaps they have a demographic which attracts sponsors to a level where they can substantially subsidise costs. Perhaps some of the club owners own streaming platforms/productuoin companies, perhaps they are able to use internal filming systems used by the venues for concerts etc. Does it make money or run at a loss? I know when I was involved with ice hockey in east London in the 1980s the rinks ran professional teams at a major loss because they were ways of attracting fans to the rink, in the hope that they could attract them back for public sessions, to use the bars etc. I'm not arguing that streaming is useless; simply that because one sport does it that doesn't mean it's a cash cow for every sport. Football, rugby, cricket all struggle to make streaming profitable. What I do think too many people who argue that streaming is the future ignore/don't understand/couldn't care less about is the idea that every stream sold is profit. That's just not the case. It only becomes profit once you've covered the cost of providing the stream in the first place. Otherwise it's just another loss-making element to a sport already living way beyond its means in this country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted June 30, 2021 Report Share Posted June 30, 2021 11 hours ago, old bob at herne bay said: If only the streaming services could just show the 15 heats of racing and auto edit out all the fannying about at the starts, false starts,trackside bike adjustments before every heat and tractor racing every 4 heats.. 15 heats of action in a programme that would last about 20 minutes tops. I would pay for that. On 6/28/2021 at 4:06 PM, chunky said: 3) Readjusting chains is NOT boring. In fact, it can compare quite favourably to some of the racing I see... Don't know if I'm the only one but I actually thought the back wheel change for Sam Masters before heat 15's last heat decider on Monday night's TV match was quite exciting. It was like watching an action movie with the timer going down on the ticking time bomb only for the hero to cut the red wire with 1 second to spare! Maybe that's the way to go for every heat 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted June 30, 2021 Report Share Posted June 30, 2021 (edited) As for anybody losing interest, I suggest you get out there and watch some of the young talent that is out there this season. It's been a breath of fresh air watching the likes of Rowe, Palin, Brennan, Flint, Thompson Twins and the others scoring well, being on the pace and getting stuck in and scoring quite well. I know the leagues have been weakened so they may be flattering to deceive a bit but the for long term future of the sport in this country this is a massive positive... all it needs is for the tracks to still be around for them to make a career on, and for those losing interest to go along and have a look at them Edited June 30, 2021 by iainb 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HGould Posted June 30, 2021 Report Share Posted June 30, 2021 21 minutes ago, iainb said: As for anybody losing interest, I suggest you get out there and watch some of the young talent that is out there this season. It's been a breath of fresh air watching the likes of Rowe, Palin, Brennan, Flint, Thompson Twins and the others scoring well, being on the pace and getting stuck in and scoring quite well. I know the leagues have been weakened so they may be flattering to deceive a bit but the for long term future of the sport in this country this is a massive positive... all it needs is for the tracks to still be around for them to make a career on, all it needs is for those losing interest to go along and have a look at them please don't say anything remotely positive it doesn't for the agenda of the doom mongers most of all won't ever have seen any of these exciting kids in action as they haven't been in years and are proud of it or they aren't planning on going as much for various reasons either. No doubt all of those names and a few others will be tearing it up in Poland, Sweden and all over Europe in a few years time, whilst the Clubs that nurtured them are housing developments of laid waste whilst on the BSF the moaning goes on.... 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted June 30, 2021 Report Share Posted June 30, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, HGould said: please don't say anything remotely positive it doesn't for the agenda of the doom mongers most of all won't ever have seen any of these exciting kids in action as they haven't been in years and are proud of it or they aren't planning on going as much for various reasons either. No doubt all of those names and a few others will be tearing it up in Poland, Sweden and all over Europe in a few years time, whilst the Clubs that nurtured them are housing developments of laid waste whilst on the BSF the moaning goes on.... I'm a bit of a doom monger myself... only because I want things to drastically improve and see the sport succeed and I'd be the first to be on here mongering doom if these riders were young wobblers totally out of their depth... but for once they're actually not! Now not all of them are going to go on and become world champions, or even be world class, some will undoubtedly drop by the wayside but at the moment, for me, I think the future looks quite bright for these kids. If anybody hasn't seen these kids yet I suggest you get yourself along to have a look at them, you may be surprised... I was Edited June 30, 2021 by iainb 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sings4Speedway Posted June 30, 2021 Report Share Posted June 30, 2021 15 minutes ago, HGould said: please don't say anything remotely positive it doesn't for the agenda of the doom mongers most of all won't ever have seen any of these exciting kids in action as they haven't been in years and are proud of it or they aren't planning on going as much for various reasons either. No doubt all of those names and a few others will be tearing it up in Poland, Sweden and all over Europe in a few years time, whilst the Clubs that nurtured them are housing developments of laid waste whilst on the BSF the moaning goes on.... but surely by mentioning that these names will be tearing it up across Europe in a few years rather than plying their trade in the UK shows the big issues in the sport in the UK and as a whole? Also as a side note i don't buy the clubs nurturing these riders, yes credit can be given to clubs who take a chance on a rider without credentials and they turn into something but all those listed above could have their pick of teams and the only reason the clubs are interested is to their own benefit. They were nurtured by their dedicated families and support networks who put all the miles in when they were starting out. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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