Chris116 Posted June 27, 2021 Report Share Posted June 27, 2021 I am finding it very hard to keep my interest as SWR have stopped running the late train that enabled me to get back to Wimbledon from Poole meetings and Wightlink have cancelled the late ferry that enabled me to get home from Warriors meetings. IOW is also affected by SWR not running the late train and the BSPL stitching them up. The fact that Wightlink are one of the Warriors sponsors just puts the icing on the cake! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted June 27, 2021 Report Share Posted June 27, 2021 Post Covid restrictions, most tracks' crowd averages will be around 1000 to 1500 in the top division and crowds around 700 to 1000 will be around the norm in the second tier... Just like it's been for the past ten to fifteen years or so.. No amount of trying to get more families through the gates through face painting etc will make one jot of difference.. Its all been tried before umpteen times at various tracks and whilst it might attract a few extra, these people by and large don't return, or if they do, they simply replace someone who has 'given up' following the sport in the UK.. BV are a classic example... At the dog bowl they got around 1000 on average in the last few seasons.. At the NSS their first season averaged around 1400, with some meetings getting 1800 on a Friday... Now it's around 1200 to 1300 (pre Covid), with 1600 or so on a 'good night'... Bank Holidays show how many followers the sport has, with the crowds appreciably increasing... The week after on a 'normal' night, the crowds too are back to 'normal'... If Speedway had 'Bank Holiday' crowds week in week out, it wouldn't be in the shape it is... The bottom line is there are literally tens of thousands of people living locally to tracks who either know about the sport, used to attend, or still attend infrequently... They just don't attend often enough due to either the way the sport is ran, the day the sport takes place, or the value for money in attending.... My last meeting was a lunchtime BH Monday match v Poole a few years ago, and even with the early start, the crowd was nudging 3,000 or so.... I hadn't been to a domestic meeting for a good while and decided that as it was Poole and a BH, that I would go... The meeting from what I can remember was 'decent' and I remember walking away thinking "might go again next week".. That evening Max Fricke guested for Poole at (I think) Leicester as they had another meeting that day. Can't remember which rider it was but one got injured that morning at the NSS so Max got asked to ride... I haven't bothered attending UK domestic speedway since given how ridiculous that scenario was, and no amount of 'add ons' will maintain crowd levels unless nonsense like this stops.... But as everyone knows, it never will.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted June 27, 2021 Report Share Posted June 27, 2021 2 hours ago, Byker Biker said: It's not Rose Tinted spectacles, they can see like everyone else, they just don't have a chuffing clue what to do either strategically or imminently! Its not an easy problem to solve but some of the decisions - that concerning the NL and the loss of Isle of Wight as a result springs to mind - are a matter of pure incompetence and could have been avoided. The failure to engage with the Warriors management is inexcusable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted June 27, 2021 Report Share Posted June 27, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, HGould said: The one thing that has more amplified the rotten core of the inner sanctum though is the decision of Ben Duffill to walk away from the Sport. He's one of a few of the new / newer Promotions who have been a breath of fresh air to the Sport relatively speaking and he will be a big loss. Promotions like Glasgow (OK they have the clout), Berwick, Edinburgh, Newcastle; Redcar, Brummies; Plymouth; Eastbourne; in the CL do seem to be trying hard but the old dinosaurs at the top table seem hell bent on fiddling averages, stopping progress, buying substandard tyres and non existent bikes, screwing up the Rising Star scheme and in alienating a guy like Ben Duffill, you wonder how many of those more positive thinking Promoters will jump ship or just give up as well? It's not so much as walking away as being driven away by the politbureau who don't seem to care a jot An equal - if not greater - loss is the Isle of Wight promotion of Barry Bishop and Martin Widman. Don't take my word for just how forward thinking, innovative and customer focussed these two guys have been - read the comments of the likes of Peter Oakes, James Easter, Bert Harkins and more. The way they were treated - and are still being treated - was and remains shameful. Edited June 27, 2021 by Halifaxtiger 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatface Posted June 27, 2021 Report Share Posted June 27, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, mikebv said: Bank Holidays show how many followers the sport has, with the crowds appreciably increasing... The week after on a 'normal' night, the crowds too are back to 'normal'... If Speedway had 'Bank Holiday' crowds week in week out, it wouldn't be in the shape it is... I'm sure I've made this point before, but I'll keep on like a broken record anyway. Speedway has to tailor itself for a family day out....it can do that on a Bank Holiday or Weekend afternoon, it simply cannot on a school night....and will end up with the same shrinking ageing hard-core. It has to reach out to a wider demographic...like football, cricket, rugby, horse racing, basketball, netball all do. Imagine a restaurant running its business only on a midweek night because its staff were in Poland, Sweden etc at the weekend?! That's what British speedway does. It's Einstein's definition of insanity. Plymouth is my local track now. It's a 40mins drive. Am I going to take my 8 year old kids on a Tuesday night, rushing there and back for £50 minimum? No chance. The weekend is different, we are time rich and looking for something to do as a family. Are there any matches at the weekend? There's nowt. Quite simply, they won't see me and thousands of other families this year. Edited June 27, 2021 by falcace 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted June 27, 2021 Report Share Posted June 27, 2021 39 minutes ago, falcace said: I'm sure I've made this point before, but I'll keep on like a broken record anyway. Speedway has to tailor itself for a family day out....it can do that on a Bank Holiday or Weekend afternoon, it simply cannot on a school night....and will end up with the same shrinking ageing hard-core. It has to reach out to a wider demographic...like football, cricket, rugby, horse racing, basketball, netball all do. Imagine a restaurant running its business only on a midweek night because its staff were in Poland, Sweden etc at the weekend?! That's what British speedway does. It's Einstein's definition of insanity. Plymouth is my local track now. It's a 40mins drive. Am I going to take my 8 year old kids on a Tuesday night, rushing there and back for £50 minimum? No chance. The weekend is different, we are time rich and looking for something to do as a family. Are there any matches at the weekend? There's nowt. Quite simply, they won't see me and thousands of other families this year. You can see it, I can see it... Many hundreds on here can see it... And thousands who used to attend Speedway in the UK can see it.... Therefore I truly do fail to believe that those who run the sport can't see it either.. It's clear that fixed nights are not even fixed to allow "big names" to ride over here and elsewhere, but just simply to allow as many UK based riders as possible to double up so that they can earn as much as is possible, (to pay for massive outlays), season to season.. And spreading out the days they race on also provides a plentiful supply of guest riders who can supplement their earnings by appearing for all and sundry on an adhoc basis.. Let's be honest, no one in their right mind would choose to run the sport the way it's currently ran if they could afford to run it properly would they?... Therefore the current operating model and business plan are simply the only ones we will ever have... Until it's obviously ludicrous flaws eventually kills the sport off completely over here.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old bob at herne bay Posted June 27, 2021 Report Share Posted June 27, 2021 Sadly my interest hasnt been rekindled.... after a year "off" from speedway I had a few meetings pencilled in ... as always the British weather intervened and advance purchase of tickets is not something I am going to do with dodgy weather forecasts. Set my mind on going to see Jason Crump at Kent ... but sadly he was injured. The Championship speedway team at Kent has been decimated by retiring riders , injuries and even absent youngsters in championship qualifier meetings. Just Scott Nicholls as a heat leader. AS for the NDL thats now a training league, and overpriced at Kent. The little TV coverage I have seen on Discovery + has been appalling ......still the delayed starts and restarts ...... interspersed with so many adverts. Looking at a tasty encounter EB vs Glasgow , but the silly so and so's at EB have made it a DAYTIME meeting. Never seen a good one yet. Think I am back to where I was last year with little enthusiasm to visit my local tracks at least until I can turn up and buy a ticket, choose where I want to sit/stand and not have to wear a mask for 2 plus hours. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityrebel Posted June 27, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2021 13 hours ago, Halifaxtiger said: From your posts on here, you clearly have been a passionate fan in the past. Its sad to see that you are losing interest. I have made no secret of my admiration for the Isle of Wight promotion and the way they have been treated has left me disillusioned and angry. There are other reasons, but that is a major one why my enthusiasm has waned and I haven't been this year at all. I can only trust that when I do attend the old buzz comes back. This afternoon, i went to an excellent British Masters Grasstrack qualifier at the superb Dig Dog Lane circuit in Frittenden Kent. Over 40 races run at breakneck speed with the rain falling throughout. No track inspections, just brave riders doing their stuff. I thoroughly enjoyed it! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted June 27, 2021 Report Share Posted June 27, 2021 2 hours ago, mikebv said: You can see it, I can see it... Many hundreds on here can see it... And thousands who used to attend Speedway in the UK can see it.... Therefore I truly do fail to believe that those who run the sport can't see it either.. It's clear that fixed nights are not even fixed to allow "big names" to ride over here and elsewhere, but just simply to allow as many UK based riders as possible to double up so that they can earn as much as is possible, (to pay for massive outlays), season to season.. And spreading out the days they race on also provides a plentiful supply of guest riders who can supplement their earnings by appearing for all and sundry on an adhoc basis.. Let's be honest, no one in their right mind would choose to run the sport the way it's currently ran if they could afford to run it properly would they?... Therefore the current operating model and business plan are simply the only ones we will ever have... Until it's obviously ludicrous flaws eventually kills the sport off completely over here.. they can see it they just don't have the skills, courage, whatever to grasp the nettle and do something about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehone Posted June 27, 2021 Report Share Posted June 27, 2021 basic requirement here is clubs to run on the days that suit them, not when they're told, and if that means weekends then so be it. the choices we used to have on a saturday was great, now, nothing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityrebel Posted June 27, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2021 24 minutes ago, ch958 said: they can see it they just don't have the skills, courage, whatever to grasp the nettle and do something about it. It's like the Titanic, heading towards the iceberg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old bob at herne bay Posted June 27, 2021 Report Share Posted June 27, 2021 and Buster Chapman hs hidden the binoculars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enotian Posted June 27, 2021 Report Share Posted June 27, 2021 lots of excuses here. I don't like masks, I don't like paying on-line/in advance, I don't like weekdays. I don't like the promoters etc etc The truth is that if the product was any good you'd more than likely be prepared to overlook these issues to get your fix. Unfortunately the product is just a bit naff. 2 hours plus for 15 mins of action some of which will be spectacular most of which won't, in mostly basic venues with zero atmosphere. Having attended about 99% of fixtures at Brough Park since 1986 I've not missed attending at all and can't see myself returning, certainly on a regular basis, and not just because the team is rubbish. In truth I'd just been turning up out of habit for a good while prior to 2020. The reason? It's just a bit naff (importantly) compared to the standard most of us can now view via the SGP coverage. Yes watching at home should be way less exciting than attending in person but the reality is that the British Speedway product is nowhere near as attractive (and I'm not even saying that SGP is unmissable stuff either). I appreciate that the pricing reflects that the standard of racing can't be as high as SGP but the product on a whole is just a but tired and lacks credibility. I actually enjoyed the last P'bro v Wolves TV match. Some of the racing was pretty good and as I'd recorded it I could fast forward the numerous breaks and what I expect were dull interviews and wittering. Didn't inspire me to buy a ticket for Newcastle's next match because I know the action wouldn't be on a par and that I wouldn't be able to fast forward the endless tractor revolutions (which never seem to have a positive effect of the standard of racing anyway). Maybe I just got bored with it. The trouble is I'm not in the minority. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrhbig Posted June 27, 2021 Report Share Posted June 27, 2021 What would happen if Scotland got independence ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted June 28, 2021 Report Share Posted June 28, 2021 (edited) 14 hours ago, falcace said: I'm sure I've made this point before, but I'll keep on like a broken record anyway. Speedway has to tailor itself for a family day out....it can do that on a Bank Holiday or Weekend afternoon, it simply cannot on a school night....and will end up with the same shrinking ageing hard-core. It has to reach out to a wider demographic...like football, cricket, rugby, horse racing, basketball, netball all do. Imagine a restaurant running its business only on a midweek night because its staff were in Poland, Sweden etc at the weekend?! That's what British speedway does. It's Einstein's definition of insanity. Plymouth is my local track now. It's a 40mins drive. Am I going to take my 8 year old kids on a Tuesday night, rushing there and back for £50 minimum? No chance. The weekend is different, we are time rich and looking for something to do as a family. Are there any matches at the weekend? There's nowt. Quite simply, they won't see me and thousands of other families this year. On the face of it, what you say is undoubtedly correct - run meetings when you are more likely to attract paying customers. Unfortunately, its not as simple as that. For a start, three quarters of British Speedway clubs do not own their own stadiums and are therefore at the directions of landlords (Peterborough, for example, would have absolutely no hope of getting a regular weekend race night). Consequently, they take what they can get. Even those that do either own or have substantial control over stadiums (such as Belle Vue) may decide that other uses - such as stock car racing or greyhounds - are more likely to be profitable (BAGS contracts for greyhounds are extremely lucrative). Others - such as Kent - may have planning issues, while Isle of Wight could not possibly run on Fridays, Saturdays or Sundays due to the situation with the ferries. Secondly, experience suggests that switching to weekends isn't always the solution. When Sheffield switched from Thursdays to Sundays it was so disastrous the club almost folded and I haven't noticed a significant change to Redcar's crowds since they changed from Thursday to Friday. When Ashley Taylor was considering opening a track in Cornwall, he told me that the days he would not run were Friday or Saturday as people were coming or going from holidays (possibly as many as half of our clubs might take this into account) and Adrian Smith advised at a Belle Vue fans forum some years ago that aside from school holidays attendances at Belle Vue were higher on Mondays than Fridays. Football's attendances certainly do not seem to be affected by playing midweek. When Plymouth switched from Friday to Tuesday they gave a statement why : Plymouth Gladiators Club Statement - Plymouth Gladiators Speedway (plymouth-speedway.com). As can be seen, it wasn't all about the number of Championship clubs that ride on that night (although that is clearly another factor as to why clubs do not run at weekends). Mike BV has made the point that the sport seems to be run for the benefit of riders (up to a point at least) and I agree. However, what they require cannot simply be completely ignored. Some consideration has to be given to what they need because we can't have speedway without them. I am not saying you are wrong so much as pointing out that putting your solution into practice is anything but easy or guaranteed to be successful. Edited June 28, 2021 by Halifaxtiger 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted June 28, 2021 Report Share Posted June 28, 2021 44 minutes ago, Halifaxtiger said: On the face of it, what you say is undoubtedly correct - run meetings when you are more likely to attract paying customers. Unfortunately, its not as simple as that. For a start, three quarters of British Speedway clubs do not own their own stadiums and are therefore at the directions of landlords (Peterborough, for example, would have absolutely no hope of getting a regular weekend race night). Consequently, they take what they can get. Even those that do either own or have substantial control over stadiums (such as Belle Vue) may decide that other uses - such as stock car racing or greyhounds - are more likely to be profitable (BAGS contracts for greyhounds are extremely lucrative). Others - such as Kent - may have planning issues, while Isle of Wight could not possibly run on Fridays, Saturdays or Sundays due to the situation with the ferries. Secondly, experience suggests that switching to weekends isn't always the solution. When Sheffield switched from Thursdays to Sundays it was so disastrous the club almost folded and I haven't noticed a significant change to Redcar's crowds since they changed from Thursday to Friday. When Ashley Taylor was considering opening a track in Cornwall, he told me that the days he would not run were Friday or Saturday as people were coming or going from holidays (possibly as many as half of our clubs might take this into account) and Adrian Smith advised at a Belle Vue fans forum some years ago that aside from school holidays attendances at Belle Vue were higher on Mondays than Fridays. Football's attendances certainly do not seem to be affected by playing midweek. When Plymouth switched from Friday to Tuesday they gave a statement why : Plymouth Gladiators Club Statement - Plymouth Gladiators Speedway (plymouth-speedway.com). As can be seen, it wasn't all about the number of Championship clubs that ride on that night (although that is clearly another factor as to why clubs do not run at weekends). Mike BV has made the point that the sport seems to be run for the benefit of riders (up to a point at least) and I agree. However, what they require cannot simply be completely ignored. Some consideration has to be given to what they need because we can't have speedway without them. I am not saying you are wrong so much as pointing out that putting your solution into practice is anything but easy or guaranteed to be successful. During my formative years attending speedway Oxford ran on a Thursday and White City on Wednesdays...didn't effect my schooling I have to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityrebel Posted June 28, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2021 41 minutes ago, steve roberts said: During my formative years attending speedway Oxford ran on a Thursday and White City on Wednesdays...didn't effect my schooling I have to say. Neither did it mine. I was going to West Ham as an eight year old on a Tuesday night from my South London home. I slept in the car coming home and always got up for school in the morning. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacksaw Jim Duggan Posted June 28, 2021 Report Share Posted June 28, 2021 Speedway reached the hit the Iceberg stage years ago.... There is just a % of fans on here who kid themselves on they still follow a big, or even slightly relevant sport, it's a grass field sport and has been for years, some cling to the Eurosport deal like a comfort blanket of relevance but in this day and age channels are just looking to hoover up any form of content they can get, it's almost moot at this stage having a TV deal in terms of that conversation. This winter the sport will carve out more riders with an over 9.00 average or some other dross, fill that hole with more mediocrity, more quality will disappear, as will more fans and those left who still attend will continue to delude themselves that it is all about the racing and the sport is just that one silver bullet change away from those recent glory days just gone about 40 years ago, while those who have stopped attending aren't coming back, and those who have never attended, never will. People who attend speedway should just enjoy it for them and stop living the lie it is a big sport in waiting, they would have far more fun that way TBH, speedway as it is now has been about the size it is and lived in the space it does for about 20 years now, always baffles me people on here still pretend it is something other than that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted June 28, 2021 Report Share Posted June 28, 2021 21 hours ago, HGould said: The one thing that has more amplified the rotten core of the inner sanctum though is the decision of Ben Duffill to walk away from the Sport. He's one of a few of the new / newer Promotions who have been a breath of fresh air to the Sport relatively speaking and he will be a big loss. Who is Ben Duffill? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueherb777 Posted June 28, 2021 Report Share Posted June 28, 2021 14 hours ago, old bob at herne bay said: Sadly my interest hasnt been rekindled.... after a year "off" from speedway I had a few meetings pencilled in ... as always the British weather intervened and advance purchase of tickets is not something I am going to do with dodgy weather forecasts. Set my mind on going to see Jason Crump at Kent ... but sadly he was injured. The Championship speedway team at Kent has been decimated by retiring riders , injuries and even absent youngsters in championship qualifier meetings. Just Scott Nicholls as a heat leader. AS for the NDL thats now a training league, and overpriced at Kent. The little TV coverage I have seen on Discovery + has been appalling ......still the delayed starts and restarts ...... interspersed with so many adverts. Looking at a tasty encounter EB vs Glasgow , but the silly so and so's at EB have made it a DAYTIME meeting. Never seen a good one yet. Think I am back to where I was last year with little enthusiasm to visit my local tracks at least until I can turn up and buy a ticket, choose where I want to sit/stand and not have to wear a mask for 2 plus hours. I have to agree with most of above. With a late start the weather has been pants....Kent`s team started the season quite weak (getting weaker)...Scotty the only rider really worth watching there...meetings called off for football reasons.....having to wear a mask even though an outside event.....getting tickets in advance.....and agree the NDL is overpriced and not appealing to go to. Basically I have written off this year and hoping next year is much more appealing!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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