Pinny Posted June 17, 2021 Report Share Posted June 17, 2021 2 hours ago, BrizHeathen said: I'm sure the recent trade talks between the two prime ministers included talks about international travel between the two countries. I haven't seen my Grandkids for almost three years because of the restrictions...so hopefully things will open up soon. The Daughter is a nurse over there and was emplyed on a vaccination program to isolated communities, it was soon halted because of concerns about Astra zenica, but now in full swing. Slow and steady seems to be the best way out. It will come into affect when things get back to normal, I would hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieman72 Posted June 17, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2021 Taking fans for granted is probably the main reason why the terraces are empty and speedway is dying. The administrators are well meaning but they are digging a hole that just gets deeper. How can there be a future with a team full of expensive foreign imports where is the logic and then lay some of the blame on the Council due to Covid restrictions. Is the fans Monday evening entertainment being sacrificed for the bottom line? You just can't treat supporters like this but nobody is listening. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heathen52 Posted June 17, 2021 Report Share Posted June 17, 2021 For years now most teams have been living beyond there means and the Senior Teams have been surving mainly due to TV money, now Covid has brought up the inevitable Crow coming home to roost so to speak, the BSPL have for years avoided taking decisions that would help the Sport survive and maybe prosper, any household or business simply cannot go on year on year making losses and ignore the simple maths lesson of paying out more than what is coming in, how is it possible to employ foreign riders cheaper then british riders ?, answers on a postcard please. I dont know the answer but one thing is for sure things cannot carry on as they are, if it means going back to basics with Teams made up of british riders then thats the way we have to go short term loss for the long term gain, no Premier League just 2 Leagues with the NL being the second tier, and no stupid payments to riders. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted June 17, 2021 Report Share Posted June 17, 2021 On the Newcastle thread it mentions a turnover of circa £350k for the club.. No disrespect intended, but that is an 'average team with an average following'... Therefore, using them as an 'average' it would mean the 18 teams in 2019 had around a £6.3M income collectively... If that is the case then how the hell is the sport living hand to mouth every year and promoters get quoted as saying "survival is an achievement"? And the income doesn't include the NDL standalone clubs at the time.. I have mentioned on another thread that the sport needs a "big event" with a big prize pot to get some publicity for it and then clubs can promote their own business on the back of each of them having qualifying rounds, with a huge finals night which has a huge prize fund.. I suggested that 18 clubs take £10k out of their 'payroll budget' to make an £180k prize fund for an individual event.... If they are taking in circa ££6.3M collectively I would suggest it should be more like £20k each and make the prize pot £360k...!!! Any reduction in salary to the riders would be more than made up I would suggest given they would each have several qualifying rounds in front of (hopefully) good crowds who had been attracted to the event by its overall prize fund... And of course, for 16 of them a bumper pay night on finals night.. (Or even spread some of the £360k over two semis as well).. Promoters are obviously spending a huge amount individually and collectively to achieve precisely nothing in the development of the sport, (I say spending because it certainly isn't investing)... And a "British Masters" (call it what you will), wouldn't cost any more than they are currently paying out (it just redistributes a percentage of their current outllay but for a hell of lot more publicity I would say)... Surely it's time for them to get together and see how futile it is to keep racing to the bottom with the current operating model and business plan? Forking out literally millions to achieve "nothing" seems absolutely nonsensical doesn't it? Maybe therefore it is time to do something different that may help themselves prosper in the short and longer term? Each track promoting an event with an overall £360k prize fund, with all 'their riders and nine others' at each event, must be easier to "sell" to local and national media, possible sponsors and lapsed non regular attendees, surely? And then you promote "very hard" your own clubs season during the event itself.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted June 17, 2021 Report Share Posted June 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, mikebv said: On the Newcastle thread it mentions a turnover of circa £350k for the club.. No disrespect intended, but that is an 'average team with an average following'... Therefore, using them as an 'average' it would mean the 18 teams in 2019 had around a £6.3M income collectively... If that is the case then how the hell is the sport living hand to mouth every year and promoters get quoted as saying "survival is an achievement"? Well it entirely depends on what your outgoings are. If your outgoings are close to, or exceed your revenue, then survival is an achievement. I'm sure riders would generally also prefer more regular higher wages than an occasional prize fund when they might be injured and miss out. And 180k spread over 19 meetings is effectively 80 quid a point which is probably less than some would be on anyway. It's not a bad idea and I've had thoughts on similar lines myself, but I feel speedway has gone past the point of tinkering with race formats and novelty competitions. It's the image, presentation, stadiums, value-for-money, clientele and poor media profile that does for it. People actually have to know something is happening before they can be interested it, far less be bothered to turn up... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieman72 Posted June 18, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2021 15 hours ago, heathen52 said: For years now most teams have been living beyond there means and the Senior Teams have been surving mainly due to TV money, now Covid has brought up the inevitable Crow coming home to roost so to speak, the BSPL have for years avoided taking decisions that would help the Sport survive and maybe prosper, any household or business simply cannot go on year on year making losses and ignore the simple maths lesson of paying out more than what is coming in, how is it possible to employ foreign riders cheaper then british riders ?, answers on a postcard please. I dont know the answer but one thing is for sure things cannot carry on as they are, if it means going back to basics with Teams made up of british riders then thats the way we have to go short term loss for the long term gain, no Premier League just 2 Leagues with the NL being the second tier, and no stupid payments to riders. What an excellent summary regarding the state of British Speedway. I think it all fits in to the term 'if it isn't broke don't fix it'. The problem it's broken ! For some time I have been very critical of Speedway and have met a wall of resistance. I could see the 'train crash' coming when the Speedway Grand Prix format was rolled out. It's not really successful most of the venues are 'not on the map' lol and it's taken Speedway to a place where the Brits don't belong and to be fair it's a bit boring and 'Anoakky'. I've heard colleagues rave about Cardiff hang on it's not even a proper track or is it a good pay day !! I though Covid might see a change in the rigid attitudes prevalent in speedway but it seems to have hardened their resolve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWC Posted June 18, 2021 Report Share Posted June 18, 2021 16 hours ago, mikebv said: On the Newcastle thread it mentions a turnover of circa £350k for the club.. No disrespect intended, but that is an 'average team with an average following'... Therefore, using them as an 'average' it would mean the 18 teams in 2019 had around a £6.3M income collectively... If that is the case then how the hell is the sport living hand to mouth every year and promoters get quoted as saying "survival is an achievement"? And the income doesn't include the NDL standalone clubs at the time.. I have mentioned on another thread that the sport needs a "big event" with a big prize pot to get some publicity for it and then clubs can promote their own business on the back of each of them having qualifying rounds, with a huge finals night which has a huge prize fund.. I suggested that 18 clubs take £10k out of their 'payroll budget' to make an £180k prize fund for an individual event.... If they are taking in circa ££6.3M collectively I would suggest it should be more like £20k each and make the prize pot £360k...!!! Any reduction in salary to the riders would be more than made up I would suggest given they would each have several qualifying rounds in front of (hopefully) good crowds who had been attracted to the event by its overall prize fund... And of course, for 16 of them a bumper pay night on finals night.. (Or even spread some of the £360k over two semis as well).. Promoters are obviously spending a huge amount individually and collectively to achieve precisely nothing in the development of the sport, (I say spending because it certainly isn't investing)... And a "British Masters" (call it what you will), wouldn't cost any more than they are currently paying out (it just redistributes a percentage of their current outllay but for a hell of lot more publicity I would say)... Surely it's time for them to get together and see how futile it is to keep racing to the bottom with the current operating model and business plan? Forking out literally millions to achieve "nothing" seems absolutely nonsensical doesn't it? Maybe therefore it is time to do something different that may help themselves prosper in the short and longer term? Each track promoting an event with an overall £360k prize fund, with all 'their riders and nine others' at each event, must be easier to "sell" to local and national media, possible sponsors and lapsed non regular attendees, surely? And then you promote "very hard" your own clubs season during the event itself.... Alas the days of doing this in U.K. have gone as we don’t have the riders to attract people. In the 70’s it was easy and promoters made a fortune but our current rider stock is average to say the least. Try and bring riders from overseas and the appearance money would be eye watering! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wealdstone Posted June 18, 2021 Report Share Posted June 18, 2021 Regrettably the narrow self interest of the past has come home to roost . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted June 18, 2021 Report Share Posted June 18, 2021 'Och Aye Captain Mainwaring - We're all doomed'!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted June 18, 2021 Report Share Posted June 18, 2021 5 hours ago, GWC said: Alas the days of doing this in U.K. have gone as we don’t have the riders to attract people. In the 70’s it was easy and promoters made a fortune but our current rider stock is average to say the least. Try and bring riders from overseas and the appearance money would be eye watering! 100% agree, but for me the size of the prize is the carrot for the fans to come and watch.. Promoters literally fork out millions collectively to achieve the grand result of "sod all", running (without credibility) supposed professional sporting competitions.. What a complete waste of a truly incredible, huge investment... Even more so when you consider the small following it has.. So use some of that huge outlay to hype up the sport, generate some publicity and hopefully, see some forward movement for the sport as a whole in the UK off the back of it.. Carrying on doing the same is ludicrous given all the evidence of the past 20 years or so shows 100% that it doesnt work.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieman72 Posted June 18, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2021 I'm a grass man and there are some fantastic riders who produce brilliant racing funded out of their own pocket. The problem is the fans turn up (that's if the stadium is open) week in week out and accept that the racing has to be done with foreign riders syphoning the life out of the British Leagues. While I accept the situation is very difficult the promoters should work harder instead of defaulting to foreign imports. There is nothing I'd like to see more than local riders doing something that they want to do and hopefully get paid doing it. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieman72 Posted June 20, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2021 What I can't understand is why fans let promoters walk all over them and then charge obscene admission prices to get in. And not a whisper of dissent am I missing something. Speedway can't continue down this path of destruction. Just been to a wonderful Vintage Grasstrack at Lemington with some excellent varied racing even 5 JAP engined bikes racing together entrance fee...a donation. Many volunteers and riders turned up and did it for nothing just the love of the sport take note Speedway !! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted June 20, 2021 Report Share Posted June 20, 2021 1 hour ago, Pieman72 said: What I can't understand is why fans let promoters walk all over them and then charge obscene admission prices to get in. And not a whisper of dissent am I missing something. Speedway can't continue down this path of destruction. Just been to a wonderful Vintage Grasstrack at Lemington with some excellent varied racing even 5 JAP engined bikes racing together entrance fee...a donation. Many volunteers and riders turned up and did it for nothing just the love of the sport take note Speedway !! No, they walk away never to return. Difference is you can play at grass usually at weekend meets. With Speedway being in teams, you have commitment to be available anywhere and every week for about 8 months. It has to be more disciplined to make it work.j Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted June 21, 2021 Report Share Posted June 21, 2021 On 6/17/2021 at 8:18 PM, Pieman72 said: Taking fans for granted is probably the main reason why the terraces are empty and speedway is dying. The administrators are well meaning but they are digging a hole that just gets deeper. How can there be a future with a team full of expensive foreign imports where is the logic and then lay some of the blame on the Council due to Covid restrictions. Is the fans Monday evening entertainment being sacrificed for the bottom line? You just can't treat supporters like this but nobody is listening. You've hit the nail on the head there Pieman72. Take Leicester for example, current league champions (2019), I followed them home and away over a complete season and most fans still haven't seen the league trophy that they paid for to watch them win. If the promotion can't even be bothered to make a big deal about winning the league why would the fans? Look at the homepage of the website... would you know Leicester were league champions... for the first time ever! Last Saturday at home to Redcar... rider parade, all riders come round wearing their helmets, a hard earned home victory with an outstanding match winning performance from Dan Thompson... no victory parade! None of this costs anything to do and is free promotion... and yet it's not done 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoff100 Posted June 21, 2021 Report Share Posted June 21, 2021 1 hour ago, iainb said: You've hit the nail on the head there Pieman72. Take Leicester for example, current league champions (2019), I followed them home and away over a complete season and most fans still haven't seen the league trophy that they paid for to watch them win. If the promotion can't even be bothered to make a big deal about winning the league why would the fans? Look at the homepage of the website... would you know Leicester were league champions... for the first time ever! Last Saturday at home to Redcar... rider parade, all riders come round wearing their helmets, a hard earned home victory with an outstanding match winning performance from Dan Thompson... no victory parade! None of this costs anything to do and is free promotion... and yet it's not done Should be no helmets on parade a slow ride round to wave to fans, at glasgow on sat first 8 riders introduced then they start gardening while last 8 introduced looked awful. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted June 21, 2021 Report Share Posted June 21, 2021 1 hour ago, geoff100 said: Should be no helmets on parade a slow ride round to wave to fans, at glasgow on sat first 8 riders introduced then they start gardening while last 8 introduced looked awful. at Peterborough and a few other tracks I've noticed when they're lined up being introduced in front of the crowd, the first riders introduced can't be @rsed to wait for the final riders to be introduced and start to be pushed away while the last couple of riders are being introduced to the crowd... totally amateurish and an insult to the fans really. Some of these riders really need to wake up to what's going on! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted June 21, 2021 Report Share Posted June 21, 2021 parades are a bore - just a lap on the bike - don't know who insisted on helmets but they need their knobs wedging in a door 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midland Red Posted June 21, 2021 Report Share Posted June 21, 2021 Race winners should be made to take a “lap of honour” Engagement with spectators is vital 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted June 21, 2021 Report Share Posted June 21, 2021 2 hours ago, iainb said: Last Saturday at home to Redcar... rider parade, all riders come round wearing their helmets, a hard earned home victory with an outstanding match winning performance from Dan Thompson... no victory parade! None of this costs anything to do and is free promotion... and yet it's not done Victory parades with the whole team.on the back of a truck have fallen victim to the covid rules this season... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvm Posted June 21, 2021 Report Share Posted June 21, 2021 39 minutes ago, ch958 said: parades are a bore - just a lap on the bike - don't know who insisted on helmets but they need their knobs wedging in a door I'm not 100% sure, But I believe there was an incident involving a rider with no helmet (parade lap) coming into contact with the grading tractor. The rule about having to wear a helmet was introduced shortly afterwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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