BIRMINGHAM v REDCAR WEDS JUNE 2ND

[mikebv]

4 hours ago, Midland Red said:

Perhaps therein lies the problem. In “the good old days”, them there great promoters like Charles Ochiltree, Ronnie Greene, etc WERE in it to make a living, hence their insistence on running a professional outfit and their valuing their customers, in order to maximise their income.

You mean running it like a 'business', rather than an affordable hobby/plaything?

Spot on, if livelihoods were on the line I would suggest the minds would be a lot sharper and less nonsense would be allowed to fester...

There is no deterrent for not running things 'properly' because the sport is built on finding promoters willing to lose money..

Which then means there can't be financial penalties as the promoters may then just walk away..

 Even more so when those who may want to deliver such penalties will themselves invariably one day be in the same boat, or maybe have already been there....

Speedway (in the UK) is what it is...

ie. Somewhat contrived,, lacking in credibility, and perceived by many ex fans as pretty amateurish on the operational and presentation sides....

With the ultimate irony being that a sport with such an amatuer infrastructure to it, probably has too many full time professional competitors which it struggles to afford...

Best just accept it for what it is and either pay your money or don't...

Either way, it won't change...

Edited June 3, 2021 by mikebv

[Petecc]

3 hours ago, StevePark said:

"The visitors in particular," which means some Birmingham riders weren't happy either.

Also it says “On the day itself as well, because of the greyhound trials that were happening on Wednesday this week..." That'll be the BAGS meeting, that happen EVERY Wednesday and will continue to do so throughout the year, meaning the track staff won't get on to the speedway track until after the last race at 159pm for every home meeting this season.

Sorry to put you right but, that was the last bags meeting on a Wednesday. Hopefully by next week the problems with the tractors will have been fixed.

[Biffa]

Replying as a Redcar fan who wasn’t there last night, I feel Birmingham are getting a lot of bad press over this meeting. For those Redcar fans with long memories, think back to Sunday’s match against the Monarchs. We had to have remedial work on bend 2 - twice if I am right, as well as several other track grades & water breaks. If we had a 4.30pm curfew we could have been in the same predicament as Birmingham. God help us if we had a bad crash to contend with as well. This is with full track staff and full track equipment and as many hours as you want to prepare everything. I know people will say it is an afternoon meeting etc but we should be careful what we wish for. It was hot & sunny leading up to Sunday & hot & sunny 4 days after leading to Birmingham’s meeting, so there track has had 4 more days to bake. All the bad press we have given Birmingham could come back to haunt us. Redcar had better have a really well prepared track for Friday or a lot of crap Will be coming our way. Pressures on track staff now I think. 

[brianbuck]

Replying to BigCatDiary - Birmingham's very restrictive planning consent stipulates that racing may only take place on Wednesday's, Bank Holiday Sundays and Good Friday. The "Wednesday's" was changed to "Thursday's" for one season in about 2010, before reverting to Wednesday's. Thursday has been retained as an emergency race night (to accomodate rain-off's etc) but is obviously no longer an option now that Premiership clubs are using this night. Bank Holiday Sundays are also not possible now that the stadium uses this day for greyhound racing.

Speedway is very much the secondary activity to greyhound racing at Perry Barr is indeed is the case at most other stadia.

Edited June 3, 2021 by brianbuck

[Barry The Cat]

2 hours ago, brianbuck said:

There's no point in trying to deny that last night's meeting was a complete disaster and has done no good at all to the image of Birmingham Speedway or speedway in general for that matter, but this was the kind of night that all tracks in their turn do experience occasionally, and it doesn't make Birmingham a poorly run club and nor does it make Redcar villanous opportunists!

Unfortunately, when these things do happen, there will be a hard core of supporters who must have someone to pin all of the blame on - and for many of these, the regular target is Laurence Rogers, who like him or not, is actually one of the hardest working people in speedway. When I arrived at the stadium in the early afternoon, Laurence was surrounded by a posse of officials from Birmingham City Council who were obviously grilling him for detailed information regarding the covid rules, and he was still with them over an hour later, and when I looked in at the speedway office, he was wading through the mountain of paperwork that had been left for him to complete.

 

 

 

Anyone who has been connected with speedway for a number of years knows that Main Man doesn’t really live up to his name, nice enough fella but sadly out of his depth!  
If the Mason’s are leaving him to deal with the council and match night operations no wonder it turned into a s**t show! 

[proud panther]

8 hours ago, tomhaines said:

“So called fans” are paying customers. This notion that “fans” owe the tracks something is a problem with speedway… if the product is poor then “so called fans” become former fans. If McDonalds consistently served you cold food would you keep going back just because of goodwill? Of course not, a Speedway club is a business and businesses need to do all they can to retain and increase their customer base - not rely on that goodwill which will run out eventually and not sustain your business.

Agree with all of your post, apart from the McDonalds quote. It's always cold, & awful.

[speedwaysliders]

3 hours ago, brianbuck said:

Replying to BigCatDiary - Birmingham's very restrictive planning consent stipulates that racing may only take place on Wednesday's, Bank Holiday Sundays and Good Friday. The "Wednesday's" was changed to "Thursday's" for one season in about 2010, before reverting to Wednesday's. Thursday has been retained as an emergency race night (to accomodate rain-off's etc) but is obviously no longer an option now that Premiership clubs are using this night. Bank Holiday Sundays are also not possible now that the stadium uses this day for greyhound racing.

Speedway is very much the secondary activity to greyhound racing at Perry Barr is indeed is the case at most other stadia.

Brian in know way am i having a go at you but suerly the owners of the stadium can apply for an evening race night at the stadium if its not being used!! Ive only just recovered from the evening getting in and out of the stadium was a nightmare what with the traffic and building projects going on for big events in the area that seem to be being pushed through regardless of any common sense regarding road useage.It just seems amazing to me that you have a stadium that cant operate without stupid restrictions  7 days a week in a large city thats alive and kicking .

[Tapeworm]

I've got a ticket for Zone B1 for Glasgow Tigers' visit next week. I'm too old to stand for the entire duration of the match. Is there any seating in this area? If not, can I bring in my own folding seat?

 

 

[bigcatdiary]

11 hours ago, brianbuck said:

Replying to BigCatDiary - Birmingham's very restrictive planning consent stipulates that racing may only take place on Wednesday's, Bank Holiday Sundays and Good Friday. The "Wednesday's" was changed to "Thursday's" for one season in about 2010, before reverting to Wednesday's. Thursday has been retained as an emergency race night (to accomodate rain-off's etc) but is obviously no longer an option now that Premiership clubs are using this night. Bank Holiday Sundays are also not possible now that the stadium uses this day for greyhound racing.

Speedway is very much the secondary activity to greyhound racing at Perry Barr is indeed is the case at most other stadia.

Thanks for that

[geoff100]

13 hours ago, Biffa said:

Replying as a Redcar fan who wasn’t there last night, I feel Birmingham are getting a lot of bad press over this meeting. For those Redcar fans with long memories, think back to Sunday’s match against the Monarchs. We had to have remedial work on bend 2 - twice if I am right, as well as several other track grades & water breaks. If we had a 4.30pm curfew we could have been in the same predicament as Birmingham. God help us if we had a bad crash to contend with as well. This is with full track staff and full track equipment and as many hours as you want to prepare everything. I know people will say it is an afternoon meeting etc but we should be careful what we wish for. It was hot & sunny leading up to Sunday & hot & sunny 4 days after leading to Birmingham’s meeting, so there track has had 4 more days to bake. All the bad press we have given Birmingham could come back to haunt us. Redcar had better have a really well prepared track for Friday or a lot of crap Will be coming our way. Pressures on track staff now I think. 

I think on sunday it would have helped if it wasnt the same guy driving the tractor and then driving the water truck.we got that fedup with the delays we took our burger and chips in the stand

[kitten2502]

1 hour ago, Tapeworm said:

I've got a ticket for Zone B1 for Glasgow Tigers' visit next week. I'm too old to stand for the entire duration of the match. Is there any seating in this area? If not, can I bring in my own folding seat?

 

 

You should be fine taking your own folding chair, plenty did that on Wednesday (as long as you don’t pinch my B1 spot )

Edited June 4, 2021 by kitten2502

[MartinBSN]

What a lot of people replying on this thread don't seem to understand is that the dry/dusty track was NOT the issue.

Riders from both sides were not happy at the patchy track around 6/6:30. Some areas of the track were solid and dry. Others were very soft and wet.

Once the top had been scraped off the track was always going to be dry, water wouldn't have helped as it would have become an ice rink with no dirt for it to soak in to!

Stewarts crash was 100% the tracks fault. Grobauer couldn't turn his bike (something every rider struggled with on most bends) and ploughed into the back/side of Stewart.

Birmingham's press release is an insult to Redcar and the paying public. 

[East End Fan]

15 hours ago, mikebv said:

You mean running it like a 'business', rather than an affordable hobby/plaything?

Spot on, if livelihoods were on the line I would suggest the minds would be a lot sharper and less nonsense would be allowed to fester...

There is no deterrent for not running things 'properly' because the sport is built on finding promoters willing to lose money..

Which then means there can't be financial penalties as the promoters may then just walk away..

 Even more so when those who may want to deliver such penalties will themselves invariably one day be in the same boat, or maybe have already been there....

Speedway (in the UK) is what it is...

ie. Somewhat contrived,, lacking in credibility, and perceived by many ex fans as pretty amateurish on the operational and presentation sides....

With the ultimate irony being that a sport with such an amatuer infrastructure to it, probably has too many full time professional competitors which it struggles to afford...

Best just accept it for what it is and either pay your money or don't...

Either way, it won't change...

I have been reading all the severe comments about the match at Birmingham (v. Redcar). Many fans suggesting that the promotions do not care for their

fans and do not care how they run their businesses.  Personally, I think this is far too harsh a judgement.  I may have led a charmed life in Speedway,

starting with supporting West Ham at the old Custom House track ( great days !), then to Hackney when it closed and moving to Arena Essex when they became

the new "Hammers". ( my 1st love). Now, with Arena no longer in action I drive a bit further down the M2 and have become a Kent fan.  In all those years, and

through many different promoters and managers ( one of whom at West Ham was a good friend of mine), I have never witnessed or suffered the kind of

disaster which occurred at Perry Bar. For decades of regular attendance at those clubs, all run in different ways by the various managers, I could not

criticise any of them.  So those that make general comments of lousy management everywhere are not being accurate or fair.

[Deano]

1 hour ago, Marshall07 said:

 

Stewarts crash was 100% the tracks fault. Grobauer couldn't turn his bike (something every rider struggled with on most bends) and ploughed into the back/side of Stewart

There was so much dust I couldn’t see how the accident happened. And I had a good view. It wasn’t obvious to me Grobauer couldn’t turn.

[MartinBSN]

2 hours ago, Deano said:

There was so much dust I couldn’t see how the accident happened. And I had a good view. It wasn’t obvious to me Grobauer couldn’t turn.

I have it on video and have watched it plenty.

[uk_martin]

1 hour ago, Marshall07 said:

I have it on video and have watched it plenty.

Why not upload it on here then for everyone else to see...I'm sure that they are bound to agree with you if the video is that conclusive.

[brianbuck]

14 hours ago, speedwaysliders said:

Brian in know way am i having a go at you but suerly the owners of the stadium can apply for an evening race night at the stadium if its not being used!! Ive only just recovered from the evening getting in and out of the stadium was a nightmare what with the traffic and building projects going on for big events in the area that seem to be being pushed through regardless of any common sense regarding road useage.It just seems amazing to me that you have a stadium that cant operate without stupid restrictions  7 days a week in a large city thats alive and kicking .

The stadium's planning consent allows them to stage Greyhound Racing on any day of any week apart from Good Friday (which I believe was a condition laid down by Lord Alexander who donated the site to the City in 1877). All other motor sport except speedway is not allowed, and speedway is confined to one specific night of the week which is currently Wednesday. An alternative week night (Thursday) is allowed in exceptional circumstances and at the Planning Officer's sole discretion.

[speedwaysliders]

3 minutes ago, brianbuck said:

The stadium's planning consent allows them to stage Greyhound Racing on any day of any week apart from Good Friday (which I believe was a condition laid down by Lord Alexander who donated the site to the City in 1877). All other motor sport except speedway is not allowed, and speedway is confined to one specific night of the week which is currently Wednesday. An alternative week night (Thursday) is allowed in exceptional circumstances and at the Planning Officer's sole discretion.

THANKS for info ,just thought ARC Racing took over the leece of the stadium in 2019,and what with the commonwealth games coming to the city next summer,the crazy things they are pushing through at break neck speed to allow it to take place,you would have thought the new leaseholder would want to max the stadium out.Also this stupid one night a week rule if its a not a bank holiday,you have to admit is kinda stupid and outdated considering the mess the stadium finds itself in outside the stadium.You would have thought like at Monmore people would bend over backwards to help the speedway out.

[Deano]

10 minutes ago, speedwaysliders said:

THANKS for info ,just thought ARC Racing took over the leece of the stadium in 2019,and what with the commonwealth games coming to the city next summer,the crazy things they are pushing through at break neck speed to allow it to take place,you would have thought the new leaseholder would want to max the stadium out.Also this stupid one night a week rule if its a not a bank holiday,you have to admit is kinda stupid and outdated considering the mess the stadium finds itself in outside the stadium.You would have thought like at Monmore people would bend over backwards to help the speedway out.

From our point of view yes it does seem petty. Having been part of the group which included UkMartin, Brian Buck, Brian Bott, Chris Browne, Gerry Taylor, Kitten, Sue connop (bless) , little leddy  et all, it was touch an go speedway would get full permission just to race one night per week. With the flats appearing close by do we want to ruffle more feathers going forwards.

Edited June 4, 2021 by Deano

[mikebv]

5 hours ago, East End Fan said:

I have been reading all the severe comments about the match at Birmingham (v. Redcar). Many fans suggesting that the promotions do not care for their

fans and do not care how they run their businesses.  Personally, I think this is far too harsh a judgement.  I may have led a charmed life in Speedway,

starting with supporting West Ham at the old Custom House track ( great days !), then to Hackney when it closed and moving to Arena Essex when they became

the new "Hammers". ( my 1st love). Now, with Arena no longer in action I drive a bit further down the M2 and have become a Kent fan.  In all those years, and

through many different promoters and managers ( one of whom at West Ham was a good friend of mine), I have never witnessed or suffered the kind of

disaster which occurred at Perry Bar. For decades of regular attendance at those clubs, all run in different ways by the various managers, I could not

criticise any of them.  So those that make general comments of lousy management everywhere are not being accurate or fair.

I think the feedback is so vociferous and angry because unfortunately Speedway Promoters dont have much "credit in the bank" when it comes issues like this..

When you have so many self inflicted 'own goals' such as actively letting riders miss meetings here to prioritise Poland, or even planning meetings in the first place knowing riders will be elsewhere. I would suggest it leaves many supporters, quite understandably, interperating this as "they dont care for their fans"..

Hence when we get a "biggie" all hell seems to break loose as it compounds other frustrating issues..

I think if they stopped a lot of the self inflicted, poorly planned fixtures, being subservient to Poland nonsense, then they would have a much healthier level of support and appreciation from the supporters.. 

Given the levels of support that Speedway has I think most of the fans are on the same side as the Promoters and just want to see the sport move forward through an operating model which has each team turning up each week with the riders that they should do (injuries permitting)...

Maybe starting to make that their fundamental priority would help the fans react a bit more calmly to issues like Wednesday's?

And let's be honest, why would you actively plan in to make your customers cheesed off? You wouldn't would you?

Yet Speedway seems to sadly make it some kind of 'hari kari' policy at times..