Belle vue Colts -V- berwick Bullets

[Sir Sidney]

4 hours ago, TMW said:

They can keep it the same by ditching the likes of Clegg Grieves etc. Which, I imagine is the plan. Then you’ll get the likes of Blair Woolley Philips taking on the No. 1 with the current reserves 2 strings and I assume they have looked at the prospects of further Youths who will hit the right age next April to fill the reserve spaces ! I do hope they support those they’ll ditch but looking at the amount of riders I’ve never heard of in the championship there’s a fare few lower riders from foreign shores who hopefully won’t go on to ride in Europe and stick 2 fingers up at British speedway which, I imagine is their plan ! They’ve always used UK as a training scheme 

I hope you are right and that there is a plan to support riders displaced from the NDL next year because their averages are too high with places in the Championship, and that the BSPL work together to achieve that. 

I suspect there will be others who achieve a higher average this year than they might otherwise have done who will become surplus to requirements as their average doesn't fit next year

What I would like to see is for BSPL to publish a 2 - 3 year plan that shows how this will work so that there is a degree of certainty 

[PotteringAround]

1 hour ago, Halifaxtiger said:

I don't think that's true.

If it was, you would have to ask why the likes of Ryan MacDonald (27), Jamie Couzins (25), Kelsey Dugard (23),Nick Laurence (30) and Paul Bowen (32) have team places.

Because none of the riders you listed are the young inexperienced glut of 3.00 reserve riders that "Kirky Lane" referred to?

MacDonald is a second-string for Berwick.   Their 3.00 reserves are Douglas (21) and Watson (20)

Couzins is a late change for second-string Bursill (3.13) not a 3.00 reserve.   Kent's young 3.00 reserves are  Mulford (17) and Warren (21)

Dugard is a second-string and not a 3.00 rider.  Newcastle's 3.00 newcomer reserves are Freeman (16) and Smith (16)

Laurence is just a stand in until Eastbourne's other reserve reaches his 15th birthday.  Other reserve Ablitt is 17.

Bowen is a second-string and not a reserve.  Belle Vue's reserves are McGurk (17) and McGurk(15)

 

 

[Halifaxtiger]

1 hour ago, PotteringAround said:

Because none of the riders you listed are the young inexperienced glut of 3.00 reserve riders that "Kirky Lane" referred to?

MacDonald is a second-string for Berwick.   Their 3.00 reserves are Douglas (21) and Watson (20)

Couzins is a late change for second-string Bursill (3.13) not a 3.00 reserve.   Kent's young 3.00 reserves are  Mulford (17) and Warren (21)

Dugard is a second-string and not a 3.00 rider.  Newcastle's 3.00 newcomer reserves are Freeman (16) and Smith (16)

Laurence is just a stand in until Eastbourne's other reserve reaches his 15th birthday.  Other reserve Ablitt is 17.

Bowen is a second-string and not a reserve.  Belle Vue's reserves are McGurk (17) and McGurk(15)

 

 

Kirky Lane had said that the 35 point limit was introduced because of a glut of young riders (he didn't actually refer to 'reserve riders' at all) and a low figure was needed so that they could all get team places -  'reducing the total was a way to get all these young lads in to racing'.  

In actual fact, the opposite is true - there actually aren't enough to justify that limit. If there were, then the riders I listed would not be riding. What has happened is that teams have been forced to scour the country for 3.00 point (or so, Dugard might not be 3.00 but at 3.09 he's hardly way over) riders and there are now some in teams who have been around for years and never progressed beyond that point.  

I must admit I don't see what difference riding at reserve or in the team makes. If you have three talented young lads, you are not going to leave one out because he'll have to ride at no 2 and replace him with an NDL journeyman. In the entire league there are just 3 riders in second string roles who are averaging above 3.81.

I have to say I haven't seen it stated anywhere that the points limit was lowered for that reason. 

[PotteringAround]

1 hour ago, Halifaxtiger said:

Kirky Lane had said that the 35 point limit was introduced because of a glut of young riders (he didn't actually refer to 'reserve riders' at all) and a low figure was needed so that they could all get team places -  'reducing the total was a way to get all these young lads in to racing'.  

In actual fact, the opposite is true - there actually aren't enough to justify that limit.

I'm afraid you're talking nonsense here.

Kirky Lane referred to a glut of young riders being ready to come in.   And obviously due to the points limit they have come in.   But the new riders are coming in at 3.00 so therefore in the main come in as reserves.  You're trying to misrepresent it by listing existing riders who are second strings, and pretending they've been brought in because of the lower limit.  Which they haven't.  they were already there.

The 35.00 limit was clearly made to bring new 3.00 riders.  That's what it's done.   And the likes of Rothery, Watson, Freeman, Smith, McGurk, McGurk, and Trigger have done very well so far.  And others who haven't ridden yet also have plenty of promise.

[TMW]

1 hour ago, PotteringAround said:

I'm afraid you're talking nonsense here.

Kirky Lane referred to a glut of young riders being ready to come in.   And obviously due to the points limit they have come in.   But the new riders are coming in at 3.00 so therefore in the main come in as reserves.  You're trying to misrepresent it by listing existing riders who are second strings, and pretending they've been brought in because of the lower limit.  Which they haven't.  they were already there.

The 35.00 limit was clearly made to bring new 3.00 riders.  That's what it's done.   And the likes of Rothery, Watson, Freeman, Smith, McGurk, McGurk, and Trigger have done very well so far.  And others who haven't ridden yet also have plenty of promise.

The riders you’ve named would have gotten places anyway, I personally don’t feel that the Millars are ready for NL but Hopefully they will get some Second half opportunities to get their confidence up. I haven’t seen many of the  others so I can’t comment ! 

[screm]

9 hours ago, Great Central said:

Oh dear. I will have to keep my eyes wide open when travelling up north. I always thought men were men up there but obviously not so.

 

Its a long story 

[TMW]

24 minutes ago, screm said:

Its a long story 

Who said Speedway is stuck in the past ?? 

Its already gone non binary !! 

[arnieg]

2 hours ago, PotteringAround said:

I'm afraid you're talking nonsense here.

Kirky Lane referred to a glut of young riders being ready to come in.   And obviously due to the points limit they have come in.   But the new riders are coming in at 3.00 so therefore in the main come in as reserves.  You're trying to misrepresent it by listing existing riders who are second strings, and pretending they've been brought in because of the lower limit.  Which they haven't.  they were already there.

The 35.00 limit was clearly made to bring new 3.00 riders.  That's what it's done.   And the likes of Rothery, Watson, Freeman, Smith, McGurk, McGurk, and Trigger have done very well so far.  And others who haven't ridden yet also have plenty of promise.

But they are exactly the riders who have places because of the lower limit. If the limit was higher they would have been ditched in favour of other riders, such as Alex Spooner and Danno Verge.

[Sings4Speedway]

6 hours ago, PotteringAround said:

I'm afraid you're talking nonsense here.

Kirky Lane referred to a glut of young riders being ready to come in.   And obviously due to the points limit they have come in.   But the new riders are coming in at 3.00 so therefore in the main come in as reserves.  You're trying to misrepresent it by listing existing riders who are second strings, and pretending they've been brought in because of the lower limit.  Which they haven't.  they were already there.

The 35.00 limit was clearly made to bring new 3.00 riders.  That's what it's done.   And the likes of Rothery, Watson, Freeman, Smith, McGurk, McGurk, and Trigger have done very well so far.  And others who haven't ridden yet also have plenty of promise.

Whatever the limits in the past new riders on 3.00 averages have been signed into teams.  They have done so because they are the best available and bettered the others. With the lower limit it has become a necessity to have 3+ riders per team around this mark increasing the spaces available and ultimately dropping the overall standard. 

Those listed above have started well but they have also been against a lower level of competition than previous years. 

[old bob at herne bay]

Sorry I have say that the NDL has gone a step too far too quickly with drastic  points limit reductions. At least with a sunny weekend and slick tracks we didn’t see the usual plethora of falls air fence repairs ridiculous unforced errors, and endless delays, which was always my lasting memory of enduring NDL speedway.

The Kent side exemplifies the new enforced points limit problems. 3 genuine prospects, one old hand enjoying himself, and 3 rabbits. Win or bust .... couldn’t muster a 2nd place between them. All for £15!  
 

Any solution that loses clubs competing in the league is not good in my opinion. 

It’s £10 a meeting speedway and at that price point we will see how many survive 2021 and come to tapes in 2022.

We will now hear of a stream of new “talented” riders all raising their averages as they defeat other “talented” riders. Too many rabbits and not enough quality riders will drag the NDL standard down and give false impressions of the ability of the new breed of rabbits.

[Sings4Speedway]

I think you are being a little harsh on the Kent 'rabbits' as you refer to them given that of the tail Clouting has has broken spells of appearances for the club but is in reality one of the better slow burner new season novices, Cousins can't be classed as a rabbit, Mulford has already shown in the previous running season he has ability and has only had time to improve and Warren with the greatest of respect is included in the team for the wrong reasons. 

Don't forget that Kent came up against another serious title contender who have built a team with more strength in depth so are scooping up the minor placings in races. Too often the focus on Speedway is the race winners whereas the way to win matches is by having far fewer last places.

[mac101]

the real problem is most have been off their bikes for over 18 months no practice sessions or second half’s to get up to any sort of race sharpness just straight into racing most riders will take a good few meetings to get up to any sort of race speed but you really need to be riding every week to stay on the pace i know we struggled at our team practice couldn’t get round the track without falling off ,and on a track that we have ridden many times before hopefully riders will get more bike time to get up to speed 

[Sings4Speedway]

1 hour ago, mac101 said:

the real problem is most have been off their bikes for over 18 months no practice sessions or second half’s to get up to any sort of race sharpness just straight into racing most riders will take a good few meetings to get up to any sort of race speed but you really need to be riding every week to stay on the pace i know we struggled at our team practice couldn’t get round the track without falling off ,and on a track that we have ridden many times before hopefully riders will get more bike time to get up to speed 

Whilst i admit its been more difficult than normal there have certainly bern plenty of chances for riders to get laps in and i dont accept that anyone in a team and serious about keeping it should be taking to the track for the first time in 18months. 

That said i do accept that race rust is very much an element for some riders but there are lads with experience getting outshone by those having a taste of league racing for the first time.

[Pinny]

On 5/30/2021 at 8:44 AM, Great Central said:

Halifaxtiger very well put as always. Yet another balanced posting.

Although I post as Great Central (most people know who I am because I live in Loughborough which is one end of a famous steam heritage line), I am Martin Widman Co Promoter and Joint owner of the Wight Warriors Speedway team. It is clear looking at the post by "crescent girl" that she hasn't read our press releases or postings on here. Whilst Barry and I did have   misgivings about the product that we would have to promote as a result of the 35 points limit, that was not the reason why we chose to leave the BSPL. We may yet be proved wrong about the new limit but only time will tell and it will be a case of perception. 

The only reason was because as a member of the BSPL(albeit an Associate Member) we did not get the opportunity to discus its merits in a meeting or AGM, the pitfalls of it and the impact it may have on the product that we had to promote and the resulting impact on our business. The rules were dictated by the Board of the BSPL, none of whom have any liability as to the financial success of our business. 

In spite of the many emails sent seeking clarification about an AGM, about whether this method of dictating the rules which we had to work under would continue at the end of the year, no clear responses to our requests were made. We may actually be forced into publishing the emails to show that we are not telling lies and to show the lack of respect that we were afforded. We were therefore left with no option.

Barry and I are the people who have started the business out of our own pocket, assisted by our sponsors and fans, and we live or die by how we run our business. It has to be noted that along with Mildenhall, we have never received any TV money from the BSPL, money which helps to subsidise the NL teams run by other league teams. As standalone clubs running more NL meetings than non standalone clubs, we actually put a lot of money into the BSPL and SCB coffers and yet got no say in how our business is run. Crescent Girl can buy out my share if she wants, and then be subject to the same dictatorial rules but I suspect the offer will be declined. 

I have tried on many occasions to come up with an analogy on the position we found ourselves in and can only come up with this one. Imagine you are a shop owner paying your taxes and rates to the local Council and suddenly the Council come along and say that you have to cut your prices by 25% What would you do?? Move to another area, get out of shop keeping, or accept the new rules and go bankrupt.   

Speedway is not in good shape right now and all we were asking was to be given the chance to have our say in how we thought it should run in 2021 and beyond. For now, that is all I will say but there is a lot more that could be said. 

Martin Widman

Wouldnt take any notice of crescent girl - he is the sad old berk at Berwick named Dick Barrie. And he is , as his name clearly suggests, a dick. 

[TMW]

11 hours ago, mac101 said:

the real problem is most have been off their bikes for over 18 months no practice sessions or second half’s to get up to any sort of race sharpness just straight into racing most riders will take a good few meetings to get up to any sort of race speed but you really need to be riding every week to stay on the pace i know we struggled at our team practice couldn’t get round the track without falling off ,and on a track that we have ridden many times before hopefully riders will get more bike time to get up to speed 

I do agree with you. In the main the ones that are shining are the Youth Championship crop. Who by en large have been racing all the way through this fiasco.  

[mac101]

2 hours ago, TMW said:

I do agree with you. In the main the ones that are shining are the Youth Championship crop. Who by en large have been racing all the way through this fiasco.  

and also all the ones that are at the no limits academy every week 

[Sings4Speedway]

2 hours ago, TMW said:

I do agree with you. In the main the ones that are shining are the Youth Championship crop. Who by en large have been racing all the way through this fiasco.  

 

11 minutes ago, mac101 said:

and also all the ones that are at the no limits academy every week 

Its no secret that every extra lap is a benefit but there are just as many riders with lesser track time over the 'closed' season who are doing well. These riders are those who have gone the extra bit to pick up some laps where they can and/or have the bonus of natural talent to carry them through. Not everyone is being held to the same levels of expectation and its certainly naïve to think that a couple of good early meetings equals a whole seasons success or failure but with a reduced fixture list hitting the ground running early is critical.