dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted March 29, 2021 Report Share Posted March 29, 2021 1 hour ago, Ray Stadia said: I think describing Kenny Carter as a monster, is a bit over the top in my opinion. We are talking about one tragic event not a series of diabolical events. We still talk about Billy Sanders talents on track, but sadly took his own life, which I understand was due to problems with his private life. Perhaps that event could have ended differently, if Billy had 'turned right' instead of left. 'There but for the grace of God'. No comparison IMO Thats my exact point - he didn't take that turn Sadly the route Billy did take was equally tragic but is one that has sympathy and sorrow attached rather than the contempt and condemnation of Carter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Stadia Posted March 29, 2021 Report Share Posted March 29, 2021 13 minutes ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said: No comparison IMO Thats my exact point - he didn't take that turn Sadly the route Billy did take was equally tragic but is one that has sympathy and sorrow attached rather than the contempt and condemnation of Carter Some people don't have sympathy with people who take their own life, however, I do sympathise. A lot of people had contempt towards Kenny Carter before his death and what he did. Therefore, there is no reason why that contempt shouldn't continue into his death. Billy was thought of, by many, in a different way to Kenny Carter, when they were both alive. As for the condemnation of what Kenny Carter did, absolutely it should be condemned. What drove him to such a drastic action, as I said earlier, I don't know, I seem to recall it was a domestic incident and something in the back of my mind recalls Pam may have been threatening to leave and take the children. Whatever, in my opinion it's more complicated than 'Kenny Carter is a monster, end of'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post fatface Posted March 29, 2021 Popular Post Report Share Posted March 29, 2021 As much as people like to retreat to the extremes, things are rarely black and white. The truth is usually somewhere in the middle. Kenny Carter lost the plot. I think we can all agree that. What he did was horrific and unimaginable. Even in his crazed state of mind, he knew that and took his own life. Tony MacDonald's excellent book "Tragedy" gives a fine insight into what led to his mental deterioration and the traumatic childhood that preceded it. Nothing could ever excuse what he did, but there are good reasons why he wasn't of sound mind. He was also a brilliant speedway rider. Unless you were a big follower of the sport in the early 1980s, it is difficult to understand just how much of a part he played in the scene around that time. He was genuine box office, the rider fans of every other club loved to hate. He was the go-to speedway rider in the national media, on breakfast TV, national newspapers, Question of Sport, teenage magazines. In pure speedway terms, there has been no-one like him since. Try articulating that in a tweet. It will always been a minefield discussing his life and legacy, ever likely to offend some. No-one would suggest there should be a statue. But that doesn't mean he should be airbrushed from history, he was too significant of a figure to be perpetually ignored. 13 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Eck Posted March 29, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2021 56 minutes ago, falcace said: As much as people like to retreat to the extremes, things are rarely black and white. The truth is usually somewhere in the middle. Kenny Carter lost the plot. I think we can all agree that. What he did was horrific and unimaginable. Even in his crazed state of mind, he knew that and took his own life. Tony MacDonald's excellent book "Tragedy" gives a fine insight into what led to his mental deterioration and the traumatic childhood that preceded it. Nothing could ever excuse what he did, but there are good reasons why he wasn't of sound mind. He was also a brilliant speedway rider. Unless you were a big follower of the sport in the early 1980s, it is difficult to understand just how much of a part he played in the scene around that time. He was genuine box office, the rider fans of every other club loved to hate. He was the go-to speedway rider in the national media, on breakfast TV, national newspapers, Question of Sport, teenage magazines. In pure speedway terms, there has been no-one like him since. Try articulating that in a tweet. It will always been a minefield discussing his life and legacy, ever likely to offend some. No-one would suggest there should be a statue. But that doesn't mean he should be airbrushed from history, he was too significant of a figure to be perpetually ignored. I agree with much of what you say. He certainly was box office but as much for his whining and moaning as his on track performances, which were legendary. His achievements were substantial, twice BLRC winner, twice British Champion, World Pairs Champion and all by the time he was 25. But away tracks booed him because they bored of his histrionics. Remembering and acknowledging his performances is a given. Still referring to him as “#kingkenny” is not and I’m pleased the tweet has now been removed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamfence Posted March 29, 2021 Report Share Posted March 29, 2021 19 minutes ago, Wee Eck said: I agree with much of what you say. He certainly was box office but as much for his whining and moaning as his on track performances, which were legendary. His achievements were substantial, twice BLRC winner, twice British Champion, World Pairs Champion and all by the time he was 25. But away tracks booed him because they bored of his histrionics. Remembering and acknowledging his performances is a given. Still referring to him as “#kingkenny” is not and I’m pleased the tweet has now been removed. Away tracks booed anyone who was brilliant and not theirs. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Third Man Posted March 29, 2021 Report Share Posted March 29, 2021 16 minutes ago, foamfence said: Away tracks booed anyone who was brilliant and not theirs. He was booed at Sheffield because he rode for Halifax, most Halifax and Belle Vue riders were booed, the possible exception being Peter Collins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted March 29, 2021 Report Share Posted March 29, 2021 40 minutes ago, The Third Man said: He was booed at Sheffield because he rode for Halifax, most Halifax and Belle Vue riders were booed, the possible exception being Peter Collins Away Promoters definitely wouldn't boo PC either... He would stick a good few extra hundred on the gate wherever he went... As for the birthday remembrance for Carter, I can only presume it was done by someone who is less than knowledgeable about the sport but found themselves "Super, super excited" to find out it would have been his 60th birthday.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWatcher Posted March 29, 2021 Report Share Posted March 29, 2021 45 minutes ago, The Third Man said: He was booed at Sheffield because he rode for Halifax, most Halifax and Belle Vue riders were booed, the possible exception being Peter Collins Booing is now frowned upon by the woke presenters and announcers up and down the country. There is one particular track where you are actually actively encouraged to applaud the away riders, which gets a lukewarm response by and large, especially when they have just stuffed in a 5-1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted March 29, 2021 Report Share Posted March 29, 2021 1 minute ago, TheWatcher said: Booing is now frowned upon by the woke presenters and announcers up and down the country. There is one particular track where you are actually actively encouraged to applaud the away riders, which gets a lukewarm response by and large, especially when they have just stuffed in a 5-1. It's because it doesn't matter who wins, and that taking part and doing your best is what counts... And all those youngsters in the audience will understand this.. All six of them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teaboy279 Posted March 29, 2021 Report Share Posted March 29, 2021 It still amazes me that with all the mental health awareness these days that people still are so militant in thier dislike for Carter. I choose to remember my favorite speedway rider as a child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamfence Posted March 29, 2021 Report Share Posted March 29, 2021 12 minutes ago, TheWatcher said: Booing is now frowned upon by the woke presenters and announcers up and down the country. There is one particular track where you are actually actively encouraged to applaud the away riders, which gets a lukewarm response by and large, especially when they have just stuffed in a 5-1. Which means it's even less of a sporting contest with support, erm... Not working is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djr Posted March 29, 2021 Report Share Posted March 29, 2021 1 hour ago, teaboy279 said: It still amazes me that with all the mental health awareness these days that people still are so militant in thier dislike for Carter. I choose to remember my favorite speedway rider as a child. Taking your own life is one thing , taking someone else's life is another thing altogether and probably explains most of the dislike for Carter He could also have a lot to say, some of which people loved , some of it just wound people up . In todays world more people around him would be aware he had mental problems, but would anyone tell him to get help ? you have to hope so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted March 29, 2021 Report Share Posted March 29, 2021 19 minutes ago, djr said: Taking your own life is one thing , taking someone else's life is another thing altogether and probably explains most of the dislike for Carter He could also have a lot to say, some of which people loved , some of it just wound people up . In todays world more people around him would be aware he had mental problems, but would anyone tell him to get help ? you have to hope so Murdered his wife... Made his own kids into orphans... I can only presume that there were obviously no divorce lawyers in Yorkshire... Take away the Speedway connection completely... Only a vile selfish individual could do such a thing to his own family... 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Stadia Posted March 29, 2021 Report Share Posted March 29, 2021 44 minutes ago, mikebv said: Murdered his wife... Made his own kids into orphans... I can only presume that there were obviously no divorce lawyers in Yorkshire... Take away the Speedway connection completely... Only a vile selfish individual could do such a thing to his own family... I agree, if it was pre-meditated. I think the chances are, it was spur of the moment. Who knows what we are all capable of in the heat of the moment. I'm sure we have all seen 'red mist' at certain times in our life, I know I have! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinker Posted March 29, 2021 Report Share Posted March 29, 2021 Kenny Carter was well liked in Halifax where I live and got tons of local press. Used to love watching the Dukes away from home where all the opposing fans would be booing him which made for a great atmosphere! He'd go out of his way to make them boo even more but alot of it was just showmanship which is sadly lacking today. However, as good a rider as he was I cannot condone in any shape or form what he did. As Ray Stadia points out though, no one can be sure what his mental state of was at that time and I'm also pretty convinced that the long list of injuries that he had during his racing career (some very bad ones at that) took their toll on him. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted March 29, 2021 Report Share Posted March 29, 2021 1 hour ago, Ray Stadia said: I agree, if it was pre-meditated. I think the chances are, it was spur of the moment. Who knows what we are all capable of in the heat of the moment. I'm sure we have all seen 'red mist' at certain times in our life, I know I have! To be honest the whole Carter family Family were a bit unstable .The Father was a total head case IMO. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted March 29, 2021 Report Share Posted March 29, 2021 14 minutes ago, Fromafar said: To be honest the whole Carter family Family were a bit unstable .The Father was a total head case IMO. Having read the excellent book by Tony MacDonald I can only arrive at the same comclusion...a nasty piece of work. Ivan Mauger was annoyed, to say the least, with his bullying involvement during the 1982 World Final. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Stadia Posted March 29, 2021 Report Share Posted March 29, 2021 15 minutes ago, Fromafar said: To be honest the whole Carter family Family were a bit unstable .The Father was a total head case IMO. It was only a few months ago that the news was full of the death of Phil Spectre, who died in prison having committed 2nd degree murder (manslaughter as we call it). Was there a news suppression of his contribution to music, was there heck! The BBC and all the rest made sure we knew all about his 'wall of sound' and all the stars he helped bring on. Yes, there was a cursory mention of the young lady he shot, but not much made of it. Therefore, it is quite normal, perhaps bizarrely, that we do still remember the great things people have achieved, even though they have committed atrocities at some point. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinny Posted March 30, 2021 Report Share Posted March 30, 2021 Carter is a murdering scumbag. End of. After what he done , how anyone can say otherwise is baffling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted March 30, 2021 Report Share Posted March 30, 2021 17 hours ago, Ray Stadia said: I agree, if it was pre-meditated. I think the chances are, it was spur of the moment. Who knows what we are all capable of in the heat of the moment. I'm sure we have all seen 'red mist' at certain times in our life, I know I have! I think the circumstances set out in Tragedy indicate at least a degree of pre meditation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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