Leicester Lions 2021

[Lenny Lion]

32 minutes ago, iainb said:

Nobody has mentioned that about the merchandise. Why on earth are the club not responsible for their own merchandise? Why would they not be interested in promoting their success?

I have no vendetta against the club, don't be so melodramatic, I just point things out that I think could and should be done better. Hoping that somebody might take the ideas on board and start promoting the club. But all I get are responses from people on why stuff can't or shouldn't be done. I don't know if you've noticed but there's room for another few thousand people in the stadium but I suppose you enjoy it there being only 25% full?

What I don't understand is why a certain number of people on here think the club is totally beyond constructive criticism.

Because the costs of making & selling your own merchandise is astronomical money that simply the club do not have. I would much rather the Bates invested 10k  in signing a rider who could help the team then on club merchandise .

The bates tried it once at Sheffield & lost alot of money so now there sub let the selling of club merchandise to Jaybea designs for both Leicester & Sheffield. 
 

I just feel like everything you post on here is negative & some of the ideas you have to help are good  but can i ask why you have never offered your help/ideas  to the club ?

You have in the past criticised the track prep/staff i know  for a fact they would love your help & input at the next meeting or on a work party up there ? 

[IainB]

13 hours ago, Lenny Lion said:

Because the costs of making & selling your own merchandise is astronomical money that simply the club do not have. I would much rather the Bates invested 10k  in signing a rider who could help the team then on club merchandise .

The bates tried it once at Sheffield & lost alot of money so now there sub let the selling of club merchandise to Jaybea designs for both Leicester & Sheffield. 
 

I just feel like everything you post on here is negative & some of the ideas you have to help are good  but can i ask why you have never offered your help/ideas  to the club ?

You have in the past criticised the track prep/staff i know  for a fact they would love your help & input at the next meeting or on a work party up there ? 

Why on earth would you sign a rider for £10k, nobody buys riders any more, that's just money going out of the club. Clubs need to be bringing money in. Making and selling your own merchandise shouldn't be astronomical you can get a custom t-shirt done for around a fiver and sell them on for £20, that's a healthy profit by my reckoning. Not to mention exposure for the sponsors and some promotion/publicity as people wear them around the city. You could probably get them done cheaper we do live in a city with many hosiery factory's.

Why would a club sub out their merch and have no say in what should be produced and when, perhaps they do have a say in which case Jaybea should be doing more. They even sub out some of their production of team shirts to a Polish company by the looks of it. Why wouldn't you as a club be saying, right we need a load of League Championship merchandise to cash in?

I comment as and when I see fit both positive and negative. Just recently I have praised the signing of Ans Andersen, the speed at which some of the matches have been completed and even acknowledged when there have been some good races. In fact I'm the ONLY one on here singing the praises of the club actually winning the bloody LEAGUE CHAMPIONSHIP... while the rest of you want to keep it a secret!!!!!! I support he club by paying my £17 week in week out, I follow the club away and was there in Glasgow on that historic night... with about 40-50 others.

But no, let's keep the double a secret, let's not make any merchandise, let's not promote the club, we don't need any more fans, we've got a nice comfortable amount coming through the turnstiles that does us just nicely thank you very much, even though 75% of the stadium is empty. Everything in the garden is rosy.

A lot of the problems I see are sport wide, it just happens that Leicester is the track I go to most often, so it gets mentioned on the Leicester thread.

I have criticised the track in the past, as many many people have, I don't think I've ever criticised any of the staff. I will openly admit and it will come as no surprise that I am no track preparation expert, I have never prepared a track in my life... I have though, seen hundreds of Speedway meetings over the years and know what a well prepared Speedway track looks like. We could probably go on for pages discussing track preparation, all I know is from my experience, is that generally what the riders like and what produces good racing for the fans are often 2 very different things, most riders would love a track that enables them to make a start and clear off at the front, why wouldn't they, it's easy money. Imo the track has not been the same since Glyn Taylor's services were dispensed with. I have no idea who does the track now and what their credentials are, where they have come from and how many tracks they had prepared before they came to Leicester.

I will continue to make posts, both positive and negative, you may agree or disagree with them, that's fine, it used to be a free world.

ATB

Iain

[Lenny Lion]

2 hours ago, iainb said:

Why on earth would you sign a rider for £10k, nobody buys riders any more, that's just money going out of the club. Clubs need to be bringing money in. Making and selling your own merchandise shouldn't be astronomical you can get a custom t-shirt done for around a fiver and sell them on for £20, that's a healthy profit by my reckoning. Not to mention exposure for the sponsors and some promotion/publicity as people wear them around the city. You could probably get them done cheaper we do live in a city with many hosiery factory's.

Why would a club sub out their merch and have no say in what should be produced and when, perhaps they do have a say in which case Jaybea should be doing more. They even sub out some of their production of team shirts to a Polish company by the looks of it. Why wouldn't you as a club be saying, right we need a load of League Championship merchandise to cash in?

I comment as and when I see fit both positive and negative. Just recently I have praised the signing of Ans Andersen, the speed at which some of the matches have been completed and even acknowledged when there have been some good races. In fact I'm the ONLY one on here singing the praises of the club actually winning the bloody LEAGUE CHAMPIONSHIP... while the rest of you want to keep it a secret!!!!!! I support he club by paying my £17 week in week out, I follow the club away and was there in Glasgow on that historic night... with about 40-50 others.

But no, let's keep the double a secret, let's not make any merchandise, let's not promote the club, we don't need any more fans, we've got a nice comfortable amount coming through the turnstiles that does us just nicely thank you very much, even though 75% of the stadium is empty. Everything in the garden is rosy.

A lot of the problems I see are sport wide, it just happens that Leicester is the track I go to most often, so it gets mentioned on the Leicester thread.

I have criticised the track in the past, as many many people have, I don't think I've ever criticised any of the staff. I will openly admit and it will come as no surprise that I am no track preparation expert, I have never prepared a track in my life... I have though, seen hundreds of Speedway meetings over the years and know what a well prepared Speedway track looks like. We could probably go on for pages discussing track preparation, all I know is from my experience, is that generally what the riders like and what produces good racing for the fans are often 2 very different things, most riders would love a track that enables them to make a start and clear off at the front, why wouldn't they, it's easy money. Imo the track has not been the same since Glyn Taylor's services were dispensed with. I have no idea who does the track now and what their credentials are, where they have come from and how many tracks they had prepared before they came to Leicester.

I will continue to make posts, both positive and negative, you may agree or disagree with them, that's fine, it used to be a free world.

ATB

Iain

Iain the questions you ask are valid questions & may i suggest you ask those questions to the club & jaybea designs instead of the consistent moaning on here.

I can assure you the club have zero say in what Jaybea sell . They sold the merchandise rights to Jaybea due to the costs & time connected to producing the items just like at around 90% of other clubs speedway is not the main source of income to the owners/promotors so on a day to day basis they have to run their other business that then in turn props up the speedway clubs so having the time to source & then deal with companies is at a premium . I don’t not know of many clubs that produce their own merchandise most of them are subbed out to other companies & Jaybea are recognised at one of the best hence why are represent so many clubs. I know all of this because I asked the same question you have regarding the clothing in 2019 along with the poor quality & got a nice reply from the club informing me of this.

When i refer to the 10k that is not to buy a riders contract more the riders loan fee to their parent club. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

[IainB]

35 minutes ago, Lenny Lion said:

Iain the questions you ask are valid questions & may i suggest you ask those questions to the club & jaybea designs instead of the consistent moaning on here.

I can assure you the club have zero say in what Jaybea sell . They sold the merchandise rights to Jaybea due to the costs & time connected to producing the items just like at around 90% of other clubs speedway is not the main source of income to the owners/promotors so on a day to day basis they have to run their other business that then in turn props up the speedway clubs so having the time to source & then deal with companies is at a premium . I don’t not know of many clubs that produce their own merchandise most of them are subbed out to other companies & Jaybea are recognised at one of the best hence why are represent so many clubs. I know all of this because I asked the same question you have regarding the clothing in 2019 along with the poor quality & got a nice reply from the club informing me of this.

When i refer to the 10k that is not to buy a riders contract more the riders loan fee to their parent club. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

You can suggest all you like... can you tell me what I am allowed to comment on, on this discussion forum? Should I run my posts by you first for moderation?

You're not going to like this but what a ridiculous thing for the club to do to just sell the merchandise rights with no say on what is or isn't produced. In most other industries that produce merchandise this is a major income stream. 

Interesting what you say about the club not being the main source of income for the promoter at 90% of Clubs, that is probably one of the main reasons why the sport is in the state it's in. I wonder what the game plan is for the promoters of a club? Is it benefactor,  self satisfaction, play thing, profitable business, love of the sport? I've always thought that some kind of fans cooperative would be a better operating model for minor sports clubs. 

I've been attending speedway since the late 70's and have watched it deteriorate year on year for every year since then. I was at BP on opening night and have watched the crowds decline since then. The current promotion will inevitably leave the club at some point in the future along with the messiah. yet I'll still be there... undoubtedly with less people standing around me. 

 

Edited July 26, 2021 by iainb

[The Dog]

Is there a reason why you haven't mentioned or put your ideas and thoughts to the Leicester promotion? They might have very good reasons why they do or don't do things, but at least you'd get an answer from the horses mouth rather than speculation on here... 

[Lenny Lion]

23 minutes ago, iainb said:

You can suggest all you like... can you tell me what I am allowed to comment on, on this discussion forum? Should I run my posts by you first for moderation?

You're not going to like this but what a ridiculous thing for the club to do to just sell the merchandise rights with no say on what is or isn't produced. In most other industries that produce merchandise this is a major income stream. 

Interesting what you say about the club not being the main source of income for the promoter at 90% of Clubs, that is probably one of the main reasons why the sport is in the state it's in. I wonder what the game plan is for the promoters of a club? Is it benefactor,  self satisfaction, play thing, profitable business, love of the sport? I've always thought that some kind of fans cooperative would be a better operating model for minor sports clubs. 

I've been attending speedway since the late 70's and have watched it deteriorate year on year for every year since then. I was at BP on opening night and have watched the crowds decline since then. The current promotion will inevitably leave the club at some point in the future along with the messiah. yet I'll still be there... undoubtedly with less people standing around me. 

 

I am not asking you to check with me what you post nor have I asked you to. I have just become tired of your posts about the same thing time after time & simply said if these things are bothering you so much then make your points to the club directly , give them your idea’s & help them fulfil them for the better of the club. Some of points you raise are valid questions . Maybe you would consider chairing a supporters committee that could meet with the club once a month to raise concerns & opinions of the paying supporters ? The supporters club are about as much good as a chocolate tea pot & are almost ran by the clubs owners with their committee as mere puppets , so asking these hard questions to the club are impossible because the club will just withdraw the free tickets they are given every week & take their 50/50 draw off them if the supporters club stir the hornets nest too much.

Let’s not kid ourselves most promotors they run speedway for the love of the sport & for beneficial tax reasons of their main source of income. There is a reason why hardly any speedway club makes a profit .

[IainB]

3 hours ago, The Dog said:

Is there a reason why you haven't mentioned or put your ideas and thoughts to the Leicester promotion? They might have very good reasons why they do or don't do things, but at least you'd get an answer from the horses mouth rather than speculation on here... 

I haven't but I will do... Anyway I thought that's what these discussion forums were all about. I'll let you know what the reply is and we can discuss it some more.

2 hours ago, Lenny Lion said:

Some of points you raise are valid questions . Maybe you would consider chairing a supporters committee that could meet with the club once a month to raise concerns & opinions of the paying supporters ? The supporters club are about as much good as a chocolate tea pot & are almost ran by the clubs owners with their committee as mere puppets , so asking these hard questions to the club are impossible because the club will just withdraw the free tickets they are given every week & take their 50/50 draw off them if the supporters club stir the hornets nest too much.

Let’s not kid ourselves most promotors they run speedway for the love of the sport & for beneficial tax reasons of their main source of income. There is a reason why hardly any speedway club makes a profit .

Blimey... this sounds like a coup 

I just wonder why the Bates got involved with Leicester (Don't get me wrong, I'm glad somebody has) when they already had an interest in Sheffield... was it to give Josh a team place?

Isn't Damian Bates also on the BSPL Management Committee? Maybe he's got too many fingers in too many pies to give them his full attention, a bit of plate spinning going on maybe?

[flagrag]

The Bates family have various other successful business ventures outside of Speedway  and as the Lenny the Lion has indicated own & run both Sheffield and Leicester for their Love of the sport .

This passion for Speedway  goes right back to the early 80s when both Damian and Mark were mascots at Sheffield often going out on track before meeting along  with dad Paul a sponsor to many riders over the years.

The Bates family prefer to have very good promotors and key staff working for them with the likes of Stewart Dickson,Julie Reading,Peter Mole,Alan Jones and Karen Hudson key to the clubs operations. This means that the Bates family can operate their other businesses and not have to worry about all the administration and logistics of running a Speedway club.

With regards to Iain B comments about outsourcing of merchandise and catering at Leicester that is not unusual at all, Even the mighty Leicester City and Tigers have outsourced their conference & banqueting so they can focus on the score product the sport .

I personally think the variety of products offered by Jaybea to be good but do think the catering is lacking especially in the summer the bottom bar should be open after meetings so fans can socialise more if they wish 

[IainB]

9 minutes ago, flagrag said:

Even the mighty Leicester City and Tigers have outsourced their conference & banqueting so they can focus on the score product the sport .

I personally think the variety of products offered by Jaybea to be good

But do the Foxes and Tigers outsource their merchandise? As for Jaybea the only League Championship winning merch that I could see was a badge... or a scarf that can be pre-ordered with delivery from the 24th of November!!! That in my book is rubbish!

[arnieg]

9 minutes ago, iainb said:

But do the Foxes and Tigers outsource their merchandise? As for Jaybea the only League Championship winning merch that I could see was a badge... or a scarf that can be pre-ordered with delivery from the 24th of November!!! That in my book is rubbish!

I have a 2019 League champions programme board (purchased from jaybea in October 2019)

[IainB]

1 minute ago, arnieg said:

I have a 2019 League champions programme board (purchased from jaybea in October 2019)

I stand corrected, a prog board, badge and pre-order scarf

[The Dog]

1 hour ago, iainb said:

I haven't but I will do... Anyway I thought that's what these discussion forums were all about. I'll let you know what the reply is and we can discuss it some more.

Blimey... this sounds like a coup 

I just wonder why the Bates got involved with Leicester (Don't get me wrong, I'm glad somebody has) when they already had an interest in Sheffield... was it to give Josh a team place?

Isn't Damian Bates also on the BSPL Management Committee? Maybe he's got too many fingers in too many pies to give them his full attention, a bit of plate spinning going on maybe?

I've always thought that if you don't offer merchandise, people will never buy it, and it is free advertising for the clubs when it's being worn. But on the flip side, it's very easy to find out the cost of things nowadays and people often think their being ripped off if someone dares sell an item for a kwid more than it cost to produce! Sort of a double edged sword now. I remember as a kid rushing to the track shop to get a replica race jacket or a photo but I'm not sure people are that bothered anymore. It's a shame really 

[IainB]

56 minutes ago, The Dog said:

I've always thought that if you don't offer merchandise, people will never buy it, and it is free advertising for the clubs when it's being worn. But on the flip side, it's very easy to find out the cost of things nowadays and people often think their being ripped off if someone dares sell an item for a kwid more than it cost to produce! Sort of a double edged sword now. I remember as a kid rushing to the track shop to get a replica race jacket or a photo but I'm not sure people are that bothered anymore. It's a shame really 

They seem to be big merchandise wearers at Leicester though, you see no end of people wearing the stuff

[MartinBSN]

On 7/26/2021 at 5:41 PM, The Dog said:

I've always thought that if you don't offer merchandise, people will never buy it, and it is free advertising for the clubs when it's being worn. But on the flip side, it's very easy to find out the cost of things nowadays and people often think their being ripped off if someone dares sell an item for a kwid more than it cost to produce! Sort of a double edged sword now. I remember as a kid rushing to the track shop to get a replica race jacket or a photo but I'm not sure people are that bothered anymore. It's a shame really 

I would suggest people are bothered. Redcar have recently started doing merchandise themselves and the stadium is a river of red every week!

[Steve Shovlar]

1 hour ago, Marshall07 said:

I would suggest people are bothered. Redcar have recently started doing merchandise themselves and the stadium is a river of red every week!

Funnily enough I visited the Poole track shop last night for the first time this season. Thought I would treat myself to a Pirates mug at £4.99. Ended up being tempted by a new Pirates jacket at £59.95. A queue in there for tills 15 deep. All holding Pirates jackets and t-shirts at £29.95. Hundreds of pounds of merchandise in that one queue at that one moment. 

Merchandise must raise thousands of pounds for Poole over the course of the season. It’s an important income source and to lease it out to a third party is foolhardy in the extreme.

[justathought]

Why would anyone in their right mind source out the merchandise to a third party. 

 

[arnieg]

5 minutes ago, justathought said:

Why would anyone in their right mind source out the merchandise to a third party. 

 

Because there are plenty of examples of clubs doing it for themselves without the necessary expertise and loosing a shedload.

 

For example Leicester in 2011

Edited July 29, 2021 by arnieg

[justathought]

10 minutes ago, arnieg said:

Because there are plenty of examples of clubs doing it for themselves without the necessary expertise and loosing a shedload.

 

For example Leicester in 2011

With the greatest respect. It’s not exactly rocket science is it. 

There are a million company’s on line who produce custom made merchandise for radio stations , bands , football teams etc.  

[arnieg]

2 minutes ago, justathought said:

With the greatest respect. It’s not exactly rocket science is it. 

There are a million company’s on line who produce custom made merchandise for radio stations , bands , football teams etc.  

And I bet that's exactly what all the clubs who did it themselves and lost money thought too.

[justathought]

In fairness. We don’t know what kind of deal Leicester speedway has with the company that takes care of it for them. 

Could be that the outlay on Leicester’s part is minimal, if anything, with a guaranteed return. Who knows.