My thoughts on How to get British speedway moving forward.

[fatface]

The answers won't come from people on this forum, nor will they come from the pages of Speedway Star or any current promoters. Everyone is too damn close to the sport to see its fatal flaws. It needs fresh, independent authority given the latitude to make major strategic changes.    

I don't subscribe to the opinion that the racing was better in the 70s and 80s. I think some of the modern day racing in the GPs and at good race tracks like Belle Vue is as good as, if not better than any racing seen before. But, I'm a speedway fan. Like everyone else on here, I am biased. The unpalatable truth is the product is not good enough for the general public outside of the ageing speedway bubble. Doubling up, relegation/promotion, lay down engines etc....nobody outside the sport gives a monkeys toss.

I've said it before and I'll say it again...speedway's problem is not that is has changed since the 1970s. It is that it has not changed enough. Every successful sport that attracts a good following is light years away from what it was 40-50 years ago. Speedway isn't.

Football was a weekly ritual avoiding (or seeking?) a punch-up and the possibility of getting p*ssed on by some idiot who couldn't be arsed to go to the stinking bogs

Rugby was watching 30 (or 26) roly-polys rolling around in the mud

Cricket was 5 days of watching the likes of Geoff Boycott painfully make a century to draw

Boxing was a night at a sticky York Hall where you risk being hit with a flying bottle or caught in a riot

Ok, I'm exaggerating a bit...but all of the above have modernised their products massively to appeal to a wider audience...and if they served up a similar product to what they did in the 70s, they'd be in the sh*t like speedway. Yet, speedway looks back and thinks if it could only recreate the 70s, the crowds would come flocking back. Dream on.

[Ray Stadia]

1 hour ago, falcace said:

The answers won't come from people on this forum, nor will they come from the pages of Speedway Star or any current promoters. Everyone is too damn close to the sport to see its fatal flaws. It needs fresh, independent authority given the latitude to make major strategic changes.    

I don't subscribe to the opinion that the racing was better in the 70s and 80s. I think some of the modern day racing in the GPs and at good race tracks like Belle Vue is as good as, if not better than any racing seen before. But, I'm a speedway fan. Like everyone else on here, I am biased. The unpalatable truth is the product is not good enough for the general public outside of the ageing speedway bubble. Doubling up, relegation/promotion, lay down engines etc....nobody outside the sport gives a monkeys toss.

I've said it before and I'll say it again...speedway's problem is not that is has changed since the 1970s. It is that it has not changed enough. Every successful sport that attracts a good following is light years away from what it was 40-50 years ago. Speedway isn't.

Football was a weekly ritual avoiding (or seeking?) a punch-up and the possibility of getting p*ssed on by some idiot who couldn't be arsed to go to the stinking bogs

Rugby was watching 30 (or 26) roly-polys rolling around in the mud

Cricket was 5 days of watching the likes of Geoff Boycott painfully make a century to draw

Boxing was a night at a sticky York Hall where you risk being hit with a flying bottle or caught in a riot

Ok, I'm exaggerating a bit...but all of the above have modernised their products massively to appeal to a wider audience...and if they served up a similar product to what they did in the 70s, they'd be in the sh*t like speedway. Yet, speedway looks back and thinks if it could only recreate the 70s, the crowds would come flocking back. Dream on.

Speedway has moved on, but only in terms of the Grand Prix. League racing, in this country, has gone backwards, in so many ways. I agree, reverting back to the 70s type set-up won't save speedway in this country, however, what was good about the 70s was speedway was more affordable for the rider, the promoter and the fans. Until that bit is sorted out, it will remain on the life support machine, I'm afraid. 

[mikebv]

22 minutes ago, Ray Stadia said:

Speedway has moved on, but only in terms of the Grand Prix. League racing, in this country, has gone backwards, in so many ways. I agree, reverting back to the 70s type set-up won't save speedway in this country, however, what was good about the 70s was speedway was more affordable for the rider, the promoter and the fans. Until that bit is sorted out, it will remain on the life support machine, I'm afraid. 

100% agree..

The cost to compete and the cost to spectate is the absolute biggest hurdle standing in the way of the sport growing..

Promoters will want riders to have the 'best kit' so riders will ask for the money that let's them buy the 'best kit'..

The Promoters will then have to pass this expense on to the public if not enough sponsors are forthcoming...

The triple irony being that winning any domestic Speedway team title has been rendered pretty worthless by its operating model, and the 'best kit' is often actually needed by the rider himself to pursue his own global ambitions, with these ambitions then restricting the club's fixture planning to a narrow window of nights that are available.. 

Growing your fanbase significantly at circa £18 a ticket isnt going to be an easy sell I would think, yet those ever spiraling costs wont allow for any much needed reduction in price to get the "goneaways' in particular back interested again..

And for me, getting those that 'used to go' to attend again, has to be easier than attracting a newbie to regularly take up the sport..

Its currently a fair old race to the bottom between promoters and riders unless some better plan can be unleashed..

 

Edited March 10, 2021 by mikebv

[fatface]

1 hour ago, Ray Stadia said:

Speedway has moved on, but only in terms of the Grand Prix. League racing, in this country, has gone backwards, in so many ways. I agree, reverting back to the 70s type set-up won't save speedway in this country, however, what was good about the 70s was speedway was more affordable for the rider, the promoter and the fans. Until that bit is sorted out, it will remain on the life support machine, I'm afraid. 

Product-Price-Place-Promotion

I have serious doubts these simple strategic considerations are ever given any time at the BSPA conference.

A final point on looking back...it's dangerously rose-tinted and romanticised. I was at my most fanatical in the early 80s watching Belle Vue at Hyde Road. So, when I discovered someone had uploaded two meetings on YouTube of Aces v Halifax and Aces v Cradley from 1982, I was chuffed. Collins, Morton, Penhall, Gundersen, Carter...jumpers for starting tapes ...what could be better? The harsh truth is, through 21st century eyes, it was all a bit underwhelming. And if the video evidence wasn't there before my eyes, I would have swore blind that these meetings were thrill-a-minute with overtaking galore. They were not. What would have passed as great entertainment then, wouldn't be now.

Edited March 10, 2021 by falcace

[Ray Stadia]

48 minutes ago, falcace said:

Product-Price-Place-Promotion

I have serious doubts these simple strategic considerations are ever given any time at the BSPA conference.

A final point on looking back...it's dangerously rose-tinted and romanticised. I was at my most fanatical in the early 80s watching Belle Vue at Hyde Road. So, when I discovered someone had uploaded two meetings on YouTube of Aces v Halifax and Aces v Cradley from 1982, I was chuffed. Collins, Morton, Penhall, Gundersen, Carter...jumpers for starting tapes ...what could be better? The harsh truth is, through 21st century eyes, it was all a bit underwhelming. And if the video evidence wasn't there before my eyes, I would have swore blind that these meetings were thrill-a-minute with overtaking galore. What was considered great entertainment then, wouldn't be now.

Of course, as we know with most, if not all motorsports, seeing it on TV is nothing like being there. It's the same whether it's F1, British Superbikes, Moto GP or indeed Speedway. Speedway has mostly been 'first from the tapes' forever, but most fans accept that, but now and again, you get a cracker of a heat! You say that yesteryear meetings on YouTube wouldn't be entertainment now and yet, there have been fans on this forum who have said they enjoy National League meetings more than the higher leagues. Fans are not only looking for spectacular heats, they are looking for the atmosphere, the sound, the smell, the camaraderie, the riding improvement of the second strings, the sportsmanship and in many instances, a nice pint and a tray of chips!  

[cityrebel]

3 hours ago, falcace said:

The answers won't come from people on this forum, nor will they come from the pages of Speedway Star or any current promoters. Everyone is too damn close to the sport to see its fatal flaws. It needs fresh, independent authority given the latitude to make major strategic changes.    

I don't subscribe to the opinion that the racing was better in the 70s and 80s. I think some of the modern day racing in the GPs and at good race tracks like Belle Vue is as good as, if not better than any racing seen before. But, I'm a speedway fan. Like everyone else on here, I am biased. The unpalatable truth is the product is not good enough for the general public outside of the ageing speedway bubble. Doubling up, relegation/promotion, lay down engines etc....nobody outside the sport gives a monkeys toss.

I've said it before and I'll say it again...speedway's problem is not that is has changed since the 1970s. It is that it has not changed enough. Every successful sport that attracts a good following is light years away from what it was 40-50 years ago. Speedway isn't.

Football was a weekly ritual avoiding (or seeking?) a punch-up and the possibility of getting p*ssed on by some idiot who couldn't be arsed to go to the stinking bogs

Rugby was watching 30 (or 26) roly-polys rolling around in the mud

Cricket was 5 days of watching the likes of Geoff Boycott painfully make a century to draw

Boxing was a night at a sticky York Hall where you risk being hit with a flying bottle or caught in a riot

Ok, I'm exaggerating a bit...but all of the above have modernised their products massively to appeal to a wider audience...and if they served up a similar product to what they did in the 70s, they'd be in the sh*t like speedway. Yet, speedway looks back and thinks if it could only recreate the 70s, the crowds would come flocking back. Dream on.

Football's modernisation was forced upon it by the Disasters at Valley Parade and Hillsborough. Even non league grounds are light years away from what they used to be. Speedway charges champagne prices, but serves up lemonade. Until the facilities reflect the profile of a so called professional sport, it hasn't got a chance.

[fatface]

2 hours ago, mikebv said:

And for me, getting those that 'used to go' to attend again, has to be easier than attracting a newbie to regularly take up the sport..

In that case, you'd better getting digging. Most of them are dead. 

You know those failing tatty old pubs who pander to a hardcore group of ageing locals, refusing to change even as their clientele dwindle and die? That's British speedway.

[mikebv]

1 hour ago, Ray Stadia said:

Of course, as we know with most, if not all motorsports, seeing it on TV is nothing like being there. It's the same whether it's F1, British Superbikes, Moto GP or indeed Speedway. Speedway has mostly been 'first from the tapes' forever, but most fans accept that, but now and again, you get a cracker of a heat! You say that yesteryear meetings on YouTube wouldn't be entertainment now and yet, there have been fans on this forum who have said they enjoy National League meetings more than the higher leagues. Fans are not only looking for spectacular heats, they are looking for the atmosphere, the sound, the smell, the camaraderie, the riding improvement of the second strings, the sportsmanship and in many instances, a nice pint and a tray of chips!  

Poor racing in front of a huge crowd will deliver far more atmosphere and wanting to attend again, than great racing in front of a poor one would..

I think the overall standard of racing nowadays is easily on a par, (if not better when you watch the SEC, SON and GP's) with any eras racing I have watched...

Put simply, watching Peter Collins and Ivan Mauger race in the 70's in front of "one man and his dog" would have left the sport struggling back then just as much as it is today..

Those massive crowds elevated enormously what these two superstars, (and others), delivered..

[mikebv]

2 minutes ago, falcace said:

In that case, you'd better getting digging. Most of them are dead. 

You know those failing tatty old pubs who pander to a hardcore group of ageing locals, refusing to change even as their clientele dwindle and die? That's British speedway.

See your point, however..

I look at my local team, Belle Vue, and their crowds can swing from well over 2000 (and even 3000), on a Bank Holiday, down to circa 1000 to 1200 on a 'normal night'..

A pattern pretty much mirrored around probably every club..

Therefore, there are still more than enough fans out there, it's just that not enough of them attend enough times per season to truly make a positive year on year difference to the sports' coffers..

Getting these people who by definition of their sporadic attending know what Speedway is, and are quite happy to attend two or three times a year, to increase their visits even by just five to ten times more is, for me, the key to success.. 

They are alive, and well, and sat at home knowing that 'the Speedway is on', but haven't been sufficiently enticed to leave that armchair..

 

[fatface]

21 minutes ago, mikebv said:

See your point, however..

I look at my local team, Belle Vue, and their crowds can swing from well over 2000 (and even 3000), on a Bank Holiday, down to circa 1000 to 1200 on a 'normal night'..

A pattern pretty much mirrored around probably every club..

Therefore, there are still more than enough fans out there, it's just that not enough of them attend enough times per season to truly make a positive year on year difference to the sports' coffers..

Getting these people who by definition of their sporadic attending know what Speedway is, and are quite happy to attend two or three times a year, to increase their visits even by just five to ten times more is, for me, the key to success.. 

They are alive, and well, and sat at home knowing that 'the Speedway is on', but haven't been sufficiently enticed to leave that armchair..

 

I see your point too. 

But I am not sure Belle Vue are representative of British Speedway as a whole. They are the only club who can actually deliver a modern sports facility experience (although I admit I haven't been to the revamped Glasgow?) and in a city centre location have a much bigger target market to aim at. I think we need to see Belle Vue as a lucky one-off...what other council in the UK can anyone ever imagine ploughing millions into a new speedway facility?

Where I think there is a real lessons to be learned is in the Bank Holiday difference in crowds. I have long thought that British speedway needs to forget about working itself around Poland and Sweden and riders commitments and work itself around peak times that families are most likely to attend. This means weekends and bank holidays. Families with kids of primary ages just don't venture out on a school night. So, already you are cutting off a big chunk of your potential crowd.

[topaz325]

3 minutes ago, falcace said:

I see your point too. 

But I am not sure Belle Vue are representative of British Speedway as a whole. They are the only club who can actually deliver a modern sports facility experience (although I admit I haven't been to the revamped Glasgow?) and in a city centre location have a much bigger target market to aim at. I think we need to see Belle Vue as a lucky one-off...what other council in the UK can anyone ever imagine ploughing millions into a new speedway facility?

Where I think there is a real lessons to be learned is in the Bank Holiday difference in crowds. I have long thought that British speedway needs to forget about working itself around Poland and Sweden and riders commitments and work itself around peak times that families are most likely to attend. This means weekends and bank holidays. Families with kids of primary ages just don't venture out on a school night. So, already you are cutting off a big chunk of your potential crowd.

Glasgow speedway run the sport as it should be, they treat the riders and fans with respect and try to promote the sport professionally, ok the stadium is not as modern as Belle Vue but the facilities are good as well as the fan experience. 

[mikebv]

1 hour ago, falcace said:

I see your point too. 

But I am not sure Belle Vue are representative of British Speedway as a whole. They are the only club who can actually deliver a modern sports facility experience (although I admit I haven't been to the revamped Glasgow?) and in a city centre location have a much bigger target market to aim at. I think we need to see Belle Vue as a lucky one-off...what other council in the UK can anyone ever imagine ploughing millions into a new speedway facility?

Where I think there is a real lessons to be learned is in the Bank Holiday difference in crowds. I have long thought that British speedway needs to forget about working itself around Poland and Sweden and riders commitments and work itself around peak times that families are most likely to attend. This means weekends and bank holidays. Families with kids of primary ages just don't venture out on a school night. So, already you are cutting off a big chunk of your potential crowd.

Been obvious for a long, long time hasnt it?

Letting employees dictate to their employer when they will attend, and when they wont because of working elsewhere,  so the owner becomes restricted as to when they can open for business, isnt on any of the many successful business plans I have seen used I must be honest..

Maybe opening when your customers want you to do so, just might improve things ever so slightly?

[noaksey]

On 3/6/2021 at 6:51 AM, Trackerman48 said:

Ok was told Matt was or is talking on the lease. And that was the only way speedway could run. If true good luck to all involved we need all tracks 

He'd like to I'd imagine whether he can or not is a totally different matter though 

[SSL84]

15 minutes ago, noaksey said:

He'd like to I'd imagine whether he can or not is a totally different matter though 

Ok sorry thought it was a done deal .

[noaksey]

52 minutes ago, Trackerman48 said:

Ok sorry thought it was a done deal .

Not heard anything at all. I'd guess at the present time they have agreed to continue this season under Stadia UK or whichever of their companies owns the lease.

Either way hopefully it sounds OK at present 

[Pinny]

The clubs that people are naming are examples of how to run the sport , like Glasgow as example, are running at huge losses. How much did the promotion say they have lost since taking over? 
 

Same as Belle Vue. Aren’t they in debt up to their eyeballs? 

[noaksey]

9 minutes ago, Pinny said:

The clubs that people are naming are examples of how to run the sport , like Glasgow as example, are running at huge losses. How much did the promotion say they have lost since taking over? 
 

Same as Belle Vue. Aren’t they in debt up to their eyeballs? 

Glasgow have invested very big capital sums in the stadium which would be very very difficult to recoup from normal trading income.

 

 

[fatface]

14 hours ago, Pinny said:

The clubs that people are naming are examples of how to run the sport , like Glasgow as example, are running at huge losses. How much did the promotion say they have lost since taking over? 
 

Same as Belle Vue. Aren’t they in debt up to their eyeballs? 

Yes. Of coursey ou are right. What I'm talking about is getting the customer experience right before speedway can even contemplate being a viable business. As MikeBV rightly points out, it is madness that the employee dictates to the employer when they can and can't work. What works for the customer comes first. I did a lot of hospitality work in my youth and of course this meant weekends, Christmas Eve  and New Year's Eve and the like. If I'd have told my boss I can't do weekends or busy times, but I can do Tuesdays and Wednesdays, I'd be out of work.

[topaz325]

1 hour ago, falcace said:

Yes. Of coursey ou are right. What I'm talking about is getting the customer experience right before speedway can even contemplate being a viable business. As MikeBV rightly points out, it is madness that the employee dictates to the employer when they can and can't work. What works for the customer comes first. I did a lot of hospitality work in my youth and of course this meant weekends, Christmas Eve  and New Year's Eve and the like. If I'd have told my boss I can't do weekends or busy times, but I can do Tuesdays and Wednesdays, I'd be out of work.

True 

1 We run with one or two “stars” in front of a low attendance on a Wednesday 

2 we run with a balanced team on a Friday/Saturday with a larger crowd.

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

1 hour ago, falcace said:

Yes. Of coursey ou are right. What I'm talking about is getting the customer experience right before speedway can even contemplate being a viable business. As MikeBV rightly points out, it is madness that the employee dictates to the employer when they can and can't work. What works for the customer comes first. I did a lot of hospitality work in my youth and of course this meant weekends, Christmas Eve  and New Year's Eve and the like. If I'd have told my boss I can't do weekends or busy times, but I can do Tuesdays and Wednesdays, I'd be out of work.

One small but vital difference - many millions are capable of pulling that pint or waiting that table while only a handful could race the speedway bike......