Ray Stadia Posted March 2, 2021 Report Share Posted March 2, 2021 12 hours ago, Vince said: I think you are right in many ways but am still to be convinced that an upright is any cheaper to run than a laydown of the same specification. I have never fully understood why speedway moved to laydown engines. I believe the argument is lower centre of gravity, so a rider can go faster around corners. But there are people who say the bikes are too fast. I wonder if the sport changed to laydown for the sake of it being novel and gave engine manufacturers and tuners an opportunity to make money, as the riders switched. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted March 2, 2021 Report Share Posted March 2, 2021 21 minutes ago, Ray Stadia said: I have never fully understood why speedway moved to laydown engines. I believe the argument is lower centre of gravity, so a rider can go faster around corners. But there are people who say the bikes are too fast. I wonder if the sport changed to laydown for the sake of it being novel and gave engine manufacturers and tuners an opportunity to make money, as the riders switched. Remember Kelly Moran giving one a try and saying how much more difficult it was to handle...and this from one of the most naturally gifted riders! Personally I felt that it was yet another move that only resorting in making the sport more expensive with riders having to adapt and for what benefit? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny the spud Posted March 2, 2021 Report Share Posted March 2, 2021 1 hour ago, steve roberts said: Remember Kelly Moran giving one a try and saying how much more difficult it was to handle...and this from one of the most naturally gifted riders! Personally I felt that it was yet another move that only resorting in making the sport more expensive with riders having to adapt and for what benefit? Using that argument won’t switching to upright make it more expensive as all the lay down engines / frames will become obsolete as everyone has to buy uprights? also second hand kit will become worthless so anyone starting up would have to shell out a fortune as only new stuff would be available 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted March 2, 2021 Report Share Posted March 2, 2021 20 minutes ago, Jonny the spud said: Using that argument won’t switching to upright make it more expensive as all the lay down engines / frames will become obsolete as everyone has to buy uprights? also second hand kit will become worthless so anyone starting up would have to shell out a fortune as only new stuff would be available Of course...but my comment was based on the original transition during 1995/96 (?) when that was the exact scenario and the same discussion that took place then. Going back to uprights would only re-create the same issues and for whose benefit? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Stadia Posted March 2, 2021 Report Share Posted March 2, 2021 25 minutes ago, Jonny the spud said: Using that argument won’t switching to upright make it more expensive as all the lay down engines / frames will become obsolete as everyone has to buy uprights? also second hand kit will become worthless so anyone starting up would have to shell out a fortune as only new stuff would be available I wasn't suggesting we should switch back to uprights, just wondering about the wisdom of why speedway switched in the first place. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny the spud Posted March 2, 2021 Report Share Posted March 2, 2021 1 minute ago, Ray Stadia said: I wasn't suggesting we should switch back to uprights, just wondering about the wisdom of why speedway switched in the first place. because a majority of riders found them easier to ride than uprights Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Stadia Posted March 2, 2021 Report Share Posted March 2, 2021 3 minutes ago, Jonny the spud said: because a majority of riders found them easier to ride than uprights But not including Kelly! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted March 2, 2021 Report Share Posted March 2, 2021 5 minutes ago, Jonny the spud said: because a majority of riders found them easier to ride than uprights May have been the case...I recall Andy Smith having issues with them and some riders were quoted as saying that they were sometimes unpredictable with the low centre of gravity causing the bike to lift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny the spud Posted March 2, 2021 Report Share Posted March 2, 2021 8 minutes ago, Ray Stadia said: But not including Kelly! When they were introduced I was riding grasstrack and longtrack throughout Europe ( albeit on a sidecar) but I would mix with riders every weekend throughout the season. I can only go on what they told me. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted March 2, 2021 Report Share Posted March 2, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Ray Stadia said: But not including Kelly! I remember talking to Peter Collins at Oxford when he was supporting his son Chris and asking him what had changed most during his time since having left the sport. He told me that in his opinion the bikes had got too fast but the tracks had basically remained the same. Edited March 2, 2021 by steve roberts 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted March 2, 2021 Report Share Posted March 2, 2021 One thing really noticeable for me having watched lots of old racing (60/ 70'/80's in the main) on YouTube lately, is how much the entry speed into the bends has increased, and how much more "sideways" the riders get as they scrub off that speed to get round the bends. . The older stuff had riders much more 'open' as they went around the turns which meant they kept a much smoother line around them... Maybe the harder tyres were the reason? Maybe the deeper tracks? Maybe the engine location in the bikes? Whatever it was, there certainly seemed to be closer racing and more potential to overtake the rider in front through track craft and throttle/grip control than currently exists today where riders seem to just hit an apex on full gas, drift up the track, lock up before hitting the fence, and fly down the next straight to repeat the manoeuvre... The width of the tracks at some circuits appear irrelevant as only the same part is used in virtually every race. .. As you can only assume bikes are not going to get slower, then the only solution it would appear is to change the track shapes if we want racing similar to what the likes of the NSS, Peterborough, Somerset and Scunthorpe deliver regularly. . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenga Posted March 2, 2021 Report Share Posted March 2, 2021 throw away those lay down engine plates . strap in a weslake and let the rider do the rest . how long will it take to get the Odsal track burnt through to the concrete/tarmac with these high revving motors . some riders will not be happy until the have gardened through to the base . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted March 4, 2021 Report Share Posted March 4, 2021 On 3/2/2021 at 6:55 AM, steve roberts said: Remember Kelly Moran giving one a try and saying how much more difficult it was to handle...and this from one of the most naturally gifted riders! Personally I felt that it was yet another move that only resorting in making the sport more expensive with riders having to adapt and for what benefit? I've just read Kelly Moran's book 'Hell of a Life' and just to put the record straight after he had left the UK for good he decided to resurrect his career back in the States. He initially found the laydowns difficult to handle but managed to overcome them and got to enjoy riding them...fellow Statesman Mike Faria, however, hated them stating that they were somewhat unpredictable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityrebel Posted March 4, 2021 Report Share Posted March 4, 2021 On 3/2/2021 at 11:57 AM, mikebv said: One thing really noticeable for me having watched lots of old racing (60/ 70'/80's in the main) on YouTube lately, is how much the entry speed into the bends has increased, and how much more "sideways" the riders get as they scrub off that speed to get round the bends. . The older stuff had riders much more 'open' as they went around the turns which meant they kept a much smoother line around them... Maybe the harder tyres were the reason? Maybe the deeper tracks? Maybe the engine location in the bikes? Whatever it was, there certainly seemed to be closer racing and more potential to overtake the rider in front through track craft and throttle/grip control than currently exists today where riders seem to just hit an apex on full gas, drift up the track, lock up before hitting the fence, and fly down the next straight to repeat the manoeuvre... The width of the tracks at some circuits appear irrelevant as only the same part is used in virtually every race. .. As you can only assume bikes are not going to get slower, then the only solution it would appear is to change the track shapes if we want racing similar to what the likes of the NSS, Peterborough, Somerset and Scunthorpe deliver regularly. . We can all dream can't we. Most of us have to make do with what we've got, locally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray c Posted March 5, 2021 Report Share Posted March 5, 2021 On 2/16/2021 at 5:10 PM, cityrebel said: I also fear a lot of dog stadiums could fall by the wayside, which will lead to a natural reduction in club numbers. agree with greyhounds gone at poole now not sure what the long term future will be at wimborne road .we got speedway this season coming but who knows after that .? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSL84 Posted March 5, 2021 Report Share Posted March 5, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, ray c said: agree with greyhounds gone at poole now not sure what the long term future will be at wimborne road .we got speedway this season coming but who knows after that .? As not Matt Ford and a few others took over the lease of the stadium? Edited March 5, 2021 by Trackerman48 Missed some words Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray c Posted March 5, 2021 Report Share Posted March 5, 2021 3 hours ago, Trackerman48 said: As not Matt Ford and a few others took over the lease of the stadium? Still in the hands of stadia uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSL84 Posted March 6, 2021 Report Share Posted March 6, 2021 9 hours ago, ray c said: Still in the hands of stadia uk Ok was told Matt was or is talking on the lease. And that was the only way speedway could run. If true good luck to all involved we need all tracks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ringitsneck Posted March 6, 2021 Report Share Posted March 6, 2021 (edited) Wrong thread, sorry. Edited March 6, 2021 by Ringitsneck Wrong thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HackneyHawk Posted March 9, 2021 Report Share Posted March 9, 2021 On 2/14/2021 at 7:24 PM, Jonny the spud said: I give it till tomorrow before the “ the bikes are too fast nowadays/ there’s no skill involved in riding them (even though most of the critics wouldn’t even know how to start a bike), let’s go back to uprights/ black leathers and bibs/ proper cinders on the tracks/ eeeeeee I saw Tommy ( the mad wellie) Wilkinshaw in 1952 and he used to ride with a rusty Brillo pad on his helmet” brigade come and tell you that’s what’s needed. I love this answer even though I'm one of the rusty brillo pad brigade!!! Seriously though, I've been around a long time and thought about this alot and I think many of speedways problems are that it can't make it's mind up between being a sport or being a sideshow. The sidesjow aspect worked when noone had tellies or playstations! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.