Doners123 Posted February 14, 2021 Report Share Posted February 14, 2021 This may not be the correct way to go but it’s just some thoughts I had whilst in lockdown on a Sunday evening. unfortunately the sports on its arse I believe because..... The rules change every year without fail imagine if the rules changed in football every year no one would accept it. the teams change every year because if they do well you have to change. You do well you are punished. How can fans especially new fans get a bond with riders that change every year. the next two for me are the biggest.... promotion and relegation and this for me is the second biggest reason speedway will never grow. How can promotion and relegation be based on what a few people at the top of the table think should be relegated and who shouldn’t. That links in to the biggest reason how can people who OWN TEAMS in the league ever make unbiased choices that doesn’t give an advantage to their team. I think it’s crazy that the league is ran by people who are not Independent. I think the speedway in order to improve needs....... clear relegation rules between 2 divisions. Scrap the national league BUT every team must run a second half meeting team ( how many in the two teams I don’t know ) could say 6 in the main meeting and 4 in the non elite meeting. Within the junior meeting 2 must be under 21 or some sort of limit. This way they get the benefit of being in and around the pits with guys who are experienced and learning without the need to take up a team spot. I think two leagues only would work. From division two, the Top team goes up and the next 4 play off for the final promotion spot. 1st v 4th and 2nd v 3rd play home and away, winners play for other for the final spot. Now yes teams may not be able to afford the best riders in the league but that’s not the challenge for them the challenge is to stay in the league. Or get promoted. riders can only ride for their club not two just one. I think riders having two averages should be scrapped and that one unique average for each rider should be there’s and there’s only. there will be a league trophy cup competition and a dual league trophy competition so the so called smaller clubs get the chance to race against the big boys and try it out. the league is run by independent people that do not own the clubs or have any involvement with clubs making the best choices for the sport as apposed for themselves. in terms of applying for the league every new team can enter, but they start in the bottom league of this league gets two big then this league ONLY gets split at the end of the season based on the top half and bottom half. Teams can’t ask for relegation or promotion and if they finish in those particular places they go up or down. If you are a smaller team with a smaller budget getting pushed up cause you won be happy and your challenge is to build a team that allows you to finish outside the bottom 2. Scrap rider ownership by random clubs. The team the rider rides for is owned by that club. They can be bought/released during the season as transfer or you release the registration and is a free agent. You can also own any riders in the second team you put on. There will be a trophy for the and this will be the development league trophy. Speedway needs to take opinions out of the running there is to many opinions allowing things to change. every thing will be fact. What average is he everyone knows. If he’s British fine give him a reduction, he’s missed one season without riding at all fine he gets a reduction. The reduction could be 2% per season for a maximum of 3 seasons. every rider who has raced British speedway will get an updated average regularly. Personally I’d do this after every week. This will be done on one green sheet and supporters will be able to see what every riders worth is with out looking. Is he A new Aussie, USA etc fine 4 or 5 average. British fine can be a 3. Any rider can ride in any league it’s up to the club to attract them. You have a wage budget/limit for each league. This means the top league teams should be stronger. Only issue with this is the dual cup competition but this adds to the fantasy off say a smaller team beating a bigger team. there’s many more questions to this and probably people will disagree but just thought during lockdown I’d post my thoughts on British speedway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamfence Posted February 14, 2021 Report Share Posted February 14, 2021 12 minutes ago, Doners123 said: This may not be the correct way to go but it’s just some thoughts I had whilst in lockdown on a Sunday evening. unfortunately the sports on its arse I believe because..... The rules change every year without fail imagine if the rules changed in football every year no one would accept it. the teams change every year because if they do well you have to change. You do well you are punished. How can fans especially new fans get a bond with riders that change every year. the next two for me are the biggest.... promotion and relegation and this for me is the second biggest reason speedway will never grow. How can promotion and relegation be based on what a few people at the top of the table think should be relegated and who shouldn’t. That links in to the biggest reason how can people who OWN TEAMS in the league ever make unbiased choices that doesn’t give an advantage to their team. I think it’s crazy that the league is ran by people who are not Independent. I think the speedway in order to improve needs....... clear relegation rules between 2 divisions. Scrap the national league BUT every team must run a second half meeting team ( how many in the two teams I don’t know ) could say 6 in the main meeting and 4 in the non elite meeting. Within the junior meeting 2 must be under 21 or some sort of limit. This way they get the benefit of being in and around the pits with guys who are experienced and learning without the need to take up a team spot. I think two leagues only would work. From division two, the Top team goes up and the next 4 play off for the final promotion spot. 1st v 4th and 2nd v 3rd play home and away, winners play for other for the final spot. Now yes teams may not be able to afford the best riders in the league but that’s not the challenge for them the challenge is to stay in the league. Or get promoted. riders can only ride for their club not two just one. I think riders having two averages should be scrapped and that one unique average for each rider should be there’s and there’s only. there will be a league trophy cup competition and a dual league trophy competition so the so called smaller clubs get the chance to race against the big boys and try it out. the league is run by independent people that do not own the clubs or have any involvement with clubs making the best choices for the sport as apposed for themselves. in terms of applying for the league every new team can enter, but they start in the bottom league of this league gets two big then this league ONLY gets split at the end of the season based on the top half and bottom half. Teams can’t ask for relegation or promotion and if they finish in those particular places they go up or down. If you are a smaller team with a smaller budget getting pushed up cause you won be happy and your challenge is to build a team that allows you to finish outside the bottom 2. Scrap rider ownership by random clubs. The team the rider rides for is owned by that club. They can be bought/released during the season as transfer or you release the registration and is a free agent. You can also own any riders in the second team you put on. There will be a trophy for the and this will be the development league trophy. Speedway needs to take opinions out of the running there is to many opinions allowing things to change. every thing will be fact. What average is he everyone knows. If he’s British fine give him a reduction, he’s missed one season without riding at all fine he gets a reduction. The reduction could be 2% per season for a maximum of 3 seasons. every rider who has raced British speedway will get an updated average regularly. Personally I’d do this after every week. This will be done on one green sheet and supporters will be able to see what every riders worth is with out looking. Is he A new Aussie, USA etc fine 4 or 5 average. British fine can be a 3. Any rider can ride in any league it’s up to the club to attract them. You have a wage budget/limit for each league. This means the top league teams should be stronger. Only issue with this is the dual cup competition but this adds to the fantasy off say a smaller team beating a bigger team. there’s many more questions to this and probably people will disagree but just thought during lockdown I’d post my thoughts on British speedway. Basically it's a form of entertainment (on a par with Stockcars and fairgrounds) masquerading as a sport. 3 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted February 14, 2021 Report Share Posted February 14, 2021 some good ideas, not new. Promotion and relegation won't happen, it's been tried before. As for du/dd teams could be paired so that div 1 teams call riders from 2 div 2 teams. No guests, use r/r or a div 2 rider from yr partner team. There's enough riders of div 1 second heat leader standard in div 2. Then at least we won't have the grotesque spectacle of Ipswich riders helping Wolves, etc, they'd just come from their partner teams in Div 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny the spud Posted February 14, 2021 Report Share Posted February 14, 2021 I give it till tomorrow before the “ the bikes are too fast nowadays/ there’s no skill involved in riding them (even though most of the critics wouldn’t even know how to start a bike), let’s go back to uprights/ black leathers and bibs/ proper cinders on the tracks/ eeeeeee I saw Tommy ( the mad wellie) Wilkinshaw in 1952 and he used to ride with a rusty Brillo pad on his helmet” brigade come and tell you that’s what’s needed. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HGould Posted February 14, 2021 Report Share Posted February 14, 2021 1 hour ago, Doners123 said: This may not be the correct way to go but it’s just some thoughts I had whilst in lockdown on a Sunday evening. unfortunately the sports on its arse I believe because..... The rules change every year without fail imagine if the rules changed in football every year no one would accept it. the teams change every year because if they do well you have to change. You do well you are punished. How can fans especially new fans get a bond with riders that change every year. the next two for me are the biggest.... promotion and relegation and this for me is the second biggest reason speedway will never grow. How can promotion and relegation be based on what a few people at the top of the table think should be relegated and who shouldn’t. That links in to the biggest reason how can people who OWN TEAMS in the league ever make unbiased choices that doesn’t give an advantage to their team. I think it’s crazy that the league is ran by people who are not Independent. I think the speedway in order to improve needs....... clear relegation rules between 2 divisions. Scrap the national league BUT every team must run a second half meeting team ( how many in the two teams I don’t know ) could say 6 in the main meeting and 4 in the non elite meeting. Within the junior meeting 2 must be under 21 or some sort of limit. This way they get the benefit of being in and around the pits with guys who are experienced and learning without the need to take up a team spot. I think two leagues only would work. From division two, the Top team goes up and the next 4 play off for the final promotion spot. 1st v 4th and 2nd v 3rd play home and away, winners play for other for the final spot. Now yes teams may not be able to afford the best riders in the league but that’s not the challenge for them the challenge is to stay in the league. Or get promoted. riders can only ride for their club not two just one. I think riders having two averages should be scrapped and that one unique average for each rider should be there’s and there’s only. there will be a league trophy cup competition and a dual league trophy competition so the so called smaller clubs get the chance to race against the big boys and try it out. the league is run by independent people that do not own the clubs or have any involvement with clubs making the best choices for the sport as apposed for themselves. in terms of applying for the league every new team can enter, but they start in the bottom league of this league gets two big then this league ONLY gets split at the end of the season based on the top half and bottom half. Teams can’t ask for relegation or promotion and if they finish in those particular places they go up or down. If you are a smaller team with a smaller budget getting pushed up cause you won be happy and your challenge is to build a team that allows you to finish outside the bottom 2. Scrap rider ownership by random clubs. The team the rider rides for is owned by that club. They can be bought/released during the season as transfer or you release the registration and is a free agent. You can also own any riders in the second team you put on. There will be a trophy for the and this will be the development league trophy. Speedway needs to take opinions out of the running there is to many opinions allowing things to change. every thing will be fact. What average is he everyone knows. If he’s British fine give him a reduction, he’s missed one season without riding at all fine he gets a reduction. The reduction could be 2% per season for a maximum of 3 seasons. every rider who has raced British speedway will get an updated average regularly. Personally I’d do this after every week. This will be done on one green sheet and supporters will be able to see what every riders worth is with out looking. Is he A new Aussie, USA etc fine 4 or 5 average. British fine can be a 3. Any rider can ride in any league it’s up to the club to attract them. You have a wage budget/limit for each league. This means the top league teams should be stronger. Only issue with this is the dual cup competition but this adds to the fantasy off say a smaller team beating a bigger team. there’s many more questions to this and probably people will disagree but just thought during lockdown I’d post my thoughts on British speedway. All interesting thoughts but lot of obstacles. What about Clubs with limited time due to curfew? What if not time to run a 2nd half team? What if some teams are in areas with few riders and can't fill second team in midweek? How about Clubs who can't compete Financially but do what they do very well at a lower level like IOW and Mildenhall? How do you pair Clubs up? 6 in PL and 12 in CL? What if a rider wants to ride for parent Club but not paired Club? How do you account for Clubs running on different nights, Monday and Thursday is fixed for top League? If you scrap NDL how do young riders enter the Sport? Can you explain why Promotion and Relegation is an issue?? Its not and never has been in Speedway? Tried and didn't work as relegated Club didn't want to go down and promoted Club didn't really want to go up? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sings4Speedway Posted February 14, 2021 Report Share Posted February 14, 2021 Anyone who thinks that binning the NL is progress doesn't even earn the effort of reading the remainder of the post. There are precious few positives about British speedway but the National league is one of its jewels and scrapping it because its inconvenient would see the sport end in 5 years. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted February 14, 2021 Report Share Posted February 14, 2021 2 hours ago, Jonny the spud said: I give it till tomorrow before the “ the bikes are too fast nowadays/ there’s no skill involved in riding them (even though most of the critics wouldn’t even know how to start a bike), let’s go back to uprights/ black leathers and bibs/ proper cinders on the tracks/ eeeeeee I saw Tommy ( the mad wellie) Wilkinshaw in 1952 and he used to ride with a rusty Brillo pad on his helmet” brigade come and tell you that’s what’s needed. ...ah but it attracted crowds back then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyd Posted February 15, 2021 Report Share Posted February 15, 2021 16 hours ago, Doners123 said: unfortunately the sports on its arse The sport is not on its arse at all because in reality the sport in this country is laying in an open grave waiting for someone to fill it in. Until someone (independent) grabs the sport in this country by the balls and says we are going to do THIS things will never change because the longer it goes on as it is the more earth there is going to be piling up on that coffin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted February 15, 2021 Report Share Posted February 15, 2021 1 hour ago, tonyd said: The sport is not on its arse at all because in reality the sport in this country is laying in an open grave waiting for someone to fill it in. Until someone (independent) grabs the sport in this country by the balls and says we are going to do THIS things will never change because the longer it goes on as it is the more earth there is going to be piling up on that coffin. Fair call. .. The fundamental reality is that without a national mainstream recognition of the sport by 'the layperson' then it will never move forwards.. At least this now seems to have been recognised with attempts finally being made to put the National Team first by bringing through UK lads to hopefully develop to top level, rather than train up the rest of the world, which has been the plan in the past.. A highly successful plan too wasn't it? It must have been because it went on for decades... Get the National Team dominating the sport, and getting the wider level of publicity that comes with it, and you may then start to get some bigger companies involved in sponsoring it... A long, long way off though, and still maybe just too late? Hide the shovel just in case... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skodaman Posted February 15, 2021 Report Share Posted February 15, 2021 21 hours ago, Doners123 said: This may not be the correct way to go but it’s just some thoughts I had whilst in lockdown on a Sunday evening. unfortunately the sports on its arse I believe because..... The rules change every year without fail imagine if the rules changed in football every year no one would accept it. the teams change every year because if they do well you have to change. You do well you are punished. How can fans especially new fans get a bond with riders that change every year. the next two for me are the biggest.... promotion and relegation and this for me is the second biggest reason speedway will never grow. How can promotion and relegation be based on what a few people at the top of the table think should be relegated and who shouldn’t. That links in to the biggest reason how can people who OWN TEAMS in the league ever make unbiased choices that doesn’t give an advantage to their team. I think it’s crazy that the league is ran by people who are not Independent. I think the speedway in order to improve needs....... clear relegation rules between 2 divisions. Scrap the national league BUT every team must run a second half meeting team ( how many in the two teams I don’t know ) could say 6 in the main meeting and 4 in the non elite meeting. Within the junior meeting 2 must be under 21 or some sort of limit. This way they get the benefit of being in and around the pits with guys who are experienced and learning without the need to take up a team spot. I think two leagues only would work. From division two, the Top team goes up and the next 4 play off for the final promotion spot. 1st v 4th and 2nd v 3rd play home and away, winners play for other for the final spot. Now yes teams may not be able to afford the best riders in the league but that’s not the challenge for them the challenge is to stay in the league. Or get promoted. riders can only ride for their club not two just one. I think riders having two averages should be scrapped and that one unique average for each rider should be there’s and there’s only. there will be a league trophy cup competition and a dual league trophy competition so the so called smaller clubs get the chance to race against the big boys and try it out. the league is run by independent people that do not own the clubs or have any involvement with clubs making the best choices for the sport as apposed for themselves. in terms of applying for the league every new team can enter, but they start in the bottom league of this league gets two big then this league ONLY gets split at the end of the season based on the top half and bottom half. Teams can’t ask for relegation or promotion and if they finish in those particular places they go up or down. If you are a smaller team with a smaller budget getting pushed up cause you won be happy and your challenge is to build a team that allows you to finish outside the bottom 2. Scrap rider ownership by random clubs. The team the rider rides for is owned by that club. They can be bought/released during the season as transfer or you release the registration and is a free agent. You can also own any riders in the second team you put on. There will be a trophy for the and this will be the development league trophy. Speedway needs to take opinions out of the running there is to many opinions allowing things to change. every thing will be fact. What average is he everyone knows. If he’s British fine give him a reduction, he’s missed one season without riding at all fine he gets a reduction. The reduction could be 2% per season for a maximum of 3 seasons. every rider who has raced British speedway will get an updated average regularly. Personally I’d do this after every week. This will be done on one green sheet and supporters will be able to see what every riders worth is with out looking. Is he A new Aussie, USA etc fine 4 or 5 average. British fine can be a 3. Any rider can ride in any league it’s up to the club to attract them. You have a wage budget/limit for each league. This means the top league teams should be stronger. Only issue with this is the dual cup competition but this adds to the fantasy off say a smaller team beating a bigger team. there’s many more questions to this and probably people will disagree but just thought during lockdown I’d post my thoughts on British speedway. a totally independant body to run the sport will not work as they do not know much about the sport. A mix of business, Referees, Supporters and Team owners and riders should be considered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyd Posted February 16, 2021 Report Share Posted February 16, 2021 21 hours ago, Skodaman said: a totally independant body to run the sport will not work as they do not know much about the sport. A mix of business, Referees, Supporters and Team owners and riders should be considered As for thinking a independent body would not work because they know nothing of the sport how about the way its run at present by team owners .......... be honest does it look like they know a lot about the sport ? They all know about there own club and its needs though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamfence Posted February 16, 2021 Report Share Posted February 16, 2021 9 minutes ago, tonyd said: As for thinking a independent body would not work because they know nothing of the sport how about the way its run at present by team owners .......... be honest does it look like they know a lot about the sport ? They all know about there own club and its needs though. Then again, if it wasn't for them there wouldn't be any (so called) sport. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyd Posted February 16, 2021 Report Share Posted February 16, 2021 20 minutes ago, foamfence said: Then again, if it wasn't for them there wouldn't be any (so called) sport. Agreed but how much longer has the sport got in the UK being run the way it is at present. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamfence Posted February 16, 2021 Report Share Posted February 16, 2021 1 hour ago, tonyd said: Agreed but how much longer has the sport got in the UK being run the way it is at present. ? Personally I see it as a single maybe ten club league or totally amateur and based around weekends and bank holidays, there's too much dead wood dragging it down. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityrebel Posted February 16, 2021 Report Share Posted February 16, 2021 1 hour ago, foamfence said: Personally I see it as a single maybe ten club league or totally amateur and based around weekends and bank holidays, there's too much dead wood dragging it down. I also fear a lot of dog stadiums could fall by the wayside, which will lead to a natural reduction in club numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted February 16, 2021 Report Share Posted February 16, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, foamfence said: Personally I see it as a single maybe ten club league or totally amateur and based around weekends and bank holidays, there's too much dead wood dragging it down. I do like to think that part of the plan to bring on the UK lads is to try and ensure their availability allows more meetings to take place going forward in the future at the 'best' times. (ie weekend and BH's).... Brexit, Polands dictatorship of World Speedway, and the gradual erosion of Greyhound racing, are big threats, so having a good many domestic competitors has to be something that helps defend the sport over here against the first two threats in particular... Finding new homes as Greyhound tracks close is going to be a major threat, however there are plenty of examples currently of tracks which started out 'rustic' and developed from there so a blueprint does exist... To move forward though, it has to be in charge of its own destiny... And they will only have that when they can decide who races, where they race, and what time and day of the week they race on... Edited February 16, 2021 by mikebv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HertsRacer Posted February 16, 2021 Report Share Posted February 16, 2021 1 hour ago, cityrebel said: I also fear a lot of dog stadiums could fall by the wayside, which will lead to a natural reduction in club numbers. And this is speedway's main problem. Once a track goes, thats it, there is nowhere out there to replace it. In the old days if a track closed there was plenty of stadiums available to introduce a new team, but one by one the stadiums have all gone, leaving the sport with just the bare bones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGT Posted February 16, 2021 Report Share Posted February 16, 2021 On 2/14/2021 at 7:24 PM, Jonny the spud said: I saw Tommy ( the mad wellie) Wilkinshaw in 1952 and he used to ride with a rusty Brillo pad on his helmet” This was actually the first known example of sponsorship in speedway. Clever lad was Tommy, an abrasive character, but a dyed in the steel wool stalwart of his time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyd Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 19 hours ago, foamfence said: Personally I see it as a single maybe ten club league or totally amateur and based around weekends and bank holidays, there's too much dead wood dragging it down. I think your right, I believe speedway in the UK has to take a couple of steps backward to be able to move forward to stand a chance of survival. Semi professional / amateur riders with weekend racing where possible I think would be a good starting point. A professional league with there super fast expensive laydown bikes and the rest on upright machines and before anyone says another bike is more expense remember many riders today have 3 or 4 bikes to run and maintain back in the 60 /70s most riders had one upright machine that they used and kept going for a full season. I wait to be shot down by some. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Posted March 1, 2021 Report Share Posted March 1, 2021 On 2/17/2021 at 11:37 AM, tonyd said: I think your right, I believe speedway in the UK has to take a couple of steps backward to be able to move forward to stand a chance of survival. Semi professional / amateur riders with weekend racing where possible I think would be a good starting point. A professional league with there super fast expensive laydown bikes and the rest on upright machines and before anyone says another bike is more expense remember many riders today have 3 or 4 bikes to run and maintain back in the 60 /70s most riders had one upright machine that they used and kept going for a full season. I wait to be shot down by some. I think you are right in many ways but am still to be convinced that an upright is any cheaper to run than a laydown of the same specification. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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