Comebacks?

[Tsunami]

21 hours ago, 25yearfan said:

I've also read in some Ivan Mauger publication that originally Peter Oakes called on Ivan to help him find a number 1 for Exeters return to the British League in 84. Mauger talked to Larry Ross, then Scott Autrey without success after Oakes failed to persuade Bobby Schwartz to sign. Exeter purchased the British League license of the recently defunct Leicester which gave them Neil and Les Collins as assets both of whom refused to join the Falcons. Andy Grahame was another rider to turn down the Falcons. After all these dead ends Oakes turned to his old mate Mauger who initially wasn't interested but lucrative sponsorship packages, Exeter changing racenights to Fridays to suit Maugers continental schedule and persuading the BSPA to allow Ivan to ride in home meetings only twisted his arm.

In fairness to Mauger he still topped Exeters  averages with an 8+ average from 20 something meetings for Exeter in 1984 in the British League when nearly all the Worlds top riders were still riding over here although he was obviously was past his best. I'd reckon Ivan did very well out of the deal. Peter Oakes was the loser cause the move up was a financial disaster no doubt assisted by having a weak team and moving away from the traditional Monday racenight. Oakes not surprisingly left Exeter at the end of the disasterous campaign.

 

Nielsen always said he'd pack up before reaching 40, although I'm sure he could have gone on for another 3-4 years at the top level. He was still good enough to come 3rd in the World in his 1999 farewell season.

 

Ermolenko still has a go on odd occasions even now no doubt loving riding his bike and he was still decent when he finished with Peterborough in the mid 00's when he was in his mid 40's even if he was past his best!  

Fabulous for you to recount the full history of Exeter's last season with Oakes. Always wondered why Mauger would join Exeter with all the hurdles, after Belle Vue. 

[cityrebel]

I saw Mauger ride twice in Exeter home meetings in 1984. He was decent and still very fast out of the starts!

[fatface]

23 hours ago, 25yearfan said:

I've also read in some Ivan Mauger publication that originally Peter Oakes called on Ivan to help him find a number 1 for Exeters return to the British League in 84. Mauger talked to Larry Ross, then Scott Autrey without success after Oakes failed to persuade Bobby Schwartz to sign. Exeter purchased the British League license of the recently defunct Leicester which gave them Neil and Les Collins as assets both of whom refused to join the Falcons. Andy Grahame was another rider to turn down the Falcons. After all these dead ends Oakes turned to his old mate Mauger who initially wasn't interested but lucrative sponsorship packages, Exeter changing racenights to Fridays to suit Maugers continental schedule and persuading the BSPA to allow Ivan to ride in home meetings only twisted his arm.

In fairness to Mauger he still topped Exeters  averages with an 8+ average from 20 something meetings for Exeter in 1984 in the British League when nearly all the Worlds top riders were still riding over here although he was obviously was past his best. I'd reckon Ivan did very well out of the deal. Peter Oakes was the loser cause the move up was a financial disaster no doubt assisted by having a weak team and moving away from the traditional Monday racenight. Oakes not surprisingly left Exeter at the end of the disasterous campaign.

 

Nielsen always said he'd pack up before reaching 40, although I'm sure he could have gone on for another 3-4 years at the top level. He was still good enough to come 3rd in the World in his 1999 farewell season.

 

Ermolenko still has a go on odd occasions even now no doubt loving riding his bike and he was still decent when he finished with Peterborough in the mid 00's when he was in his mid 40's even if he was past his best!  

Two comeback stories...both Exeter related...

We had a family holiday in Devon in 1984 and we headed along to the County Ground to see Mauger and the rest of the Falcons against Eastbourne. Granted Mauger wasn't at his best, but he got the better of Schwartz, it was brilliant to see one of the greatest on one of his famed stomping grounds and still able to race a bit. Without him, the night would have been a much poorer experience.

Forward 10 years and now living in Devon. My all-time favourite Chris Morton visited with Sheffield on his mini-comeback. Of course, he was nowhere near the rider he had been. But he won a race..something I thought I'd never see again. Loved it!

I think as fans, we can get a bit hung up on riders going on too long, being past their best and somehow tarnishing their reputation. But if they still enjoy it, the fans enjoy seeing them and they don't hurt themselves....why not? It doesn't remove the great careers they have behind them. 

[steve roberts]

1 hour ago, cityrebel said:

I saw Mauger ride twice in Exeter home meetings in 1984. He was decent and still very fast out of the starts!

I saw Ivan once that season at the County Ground and he ran a last in his first race if I recall. Personally I was sad to see that he was only a shadow of his former self having seen him at his best.

[steve roberts]

9 hours ago, falcace said:

Two comeback stories...both Exeter related...

We had a family holiday in Devon in 1984 and we headed along to the County Ground to see Mauger and the rest of the Falcons against Eastbourne. Granted Mauger wasn't at his best, but he got the better of Schwartz, it was brilliant to see one of the greatest on one of his famed stomping grounds and still able to race a bit. Without him, the night would have been a much poorer experience.

Forward 10 years and now living in Devon. My all-time favourite Chris Morton visited with Sheffield on his mini-comeback. Of course, he was nowhere near the rider he had been. But he won a race..something I thought I'd never see again. Loved it!

I think as fans, we can get a bit hung up on riders going on too long, being past their best and somehow tarnishing their reputation. But if they still enjoy it, the fans enjoy seeing them and they don't hurt themselves....why not? It doesn't remove the great careers they have behind them. 

Yes I can equate with much of that but I did find it sad seeing riders like Martin Ashby, Chris Pusey, Arnold Haley etc etc struggling to find anything like their former form having seen them in their prime but that's a personal view. I did however enjoy watching past riders competing in Barry Briggs' "Golden Greats Meetings" but that was a whole different scenario.

Edited February 9, 2021 by steve roberts

[geoff100]

Chris pusey rode for the comets early season very overweight red as a beetroot after the race sad to see and thankfully didnt last long.on the plus side terry kelly had his best year as a comet.

[steve roberts]

18 minutes ago, geoff100 said:

Chris pusey rode for the comets early season very overweight red as a beetroot after the race sad to see and thankfully didnt last long.on the plus side terry kelly had his best year as a comet.

Chris did put in a decent performance at Cowley when he rode for Weymouth but beyond that he tended to struggle.

[Fromafar]

On 2/7/2021 at 7:00 PM, 25yearfan said:

I also remember that in the early 80's. It was painful watching one of the top riders in the World at his peak, a colossus of the British league and in my opinion Halifax Dukes best ever rider scratching around at the back for a point or two. I think he averaged under 3 and had quit before the end of the season.

 

Leigh Lanhams right in not coming back cause he had a very good career, finishing cause he was on the wane and no one wanted him in the end.  If he came back he'd struggle to average 5.

 

Paul Hurry might just about eek out a 6 average and Crump will average under 8.

 

I remember reading something Ivan Mauger put in one of his books or an article where he said he was seriously considering a comeback on the Longtracks in the late 80's but backed away after consulting his son Kym who rightly said that you've got nothing to prove and you wouldn't be as good as before.

 

Hopefully the new plan for young Brits will result in more homegrown riders filling out teams and Britain becoming stronger on the International stage.

Hurry will be doing very well to get anywhere near a 6 average IMO.

[25yearfan]

Mauger while past his best still attained an 8+ average in 1984 and remember he only did it for mainly financial gain and everything was done on his terms, so it was mission achieved from his point of view. The big reason given for not riding in the away games was cause he had business commitments and racing commitments on the continent but I'm sure a big untold reason was that Ivan knew if he rode away meetings as well his average would of probably struggled to reach 6. - He'd only partially retired anyway so he could do it without disgracing himself, especially on his old stomping ground the notoriously home advantaged County Ground!

 

The likes of Chris Pusey and Eric Boocock cameback after lengthy spells out, in Boococks case 9 seasons so they were always going to find it difficult. Puseys was especially sad cause he couldn't adjust to life after speedway so thought he could make a comeback in a poor physical shape with an alcohol problem in what he thought would be a less competitive 2nd Division.

 

One must remember that nearly all riders start racing cause they love the thrill of it so its to be expected that some like to continue racing some sort of motorcycle sport just cause they love it. I've watched ex Rayleigh rider terry Stone have races on his vintage bikes!. 

 

   

[25yearfan]

5 minutes ago, Fromafar said:

Hurry will be doing very well to get anywhere near a 6 average IMO.

I think your right and I did say might although if he gets out of the gate at Kent I'm sure he will be difficult to pass on a track thats not condusive to overtaking.

[25yearfan]

Another interesting footnote to Ivan Maugers famous British League "home meetings" only swansong at Exeter in 1984 was in that same season Coventry wanted to use the recently retired (in 1983) Ole Olsen in a similar way for home meetings only, when I think Tommy Knudsen got injured but they were turned down!   

[steve roberts]

16 minutes ago, 25yearfan said:

Another interesting footnote to Ivan Maugers famous British League "home meetings" only swansong at Exeter in 1984 was in that same season Coventry wanted to use the recently retired (in 1983) Ole Olsen in a similar way for home meetings only, when I think Tommy Knudsen got injured but they were turned down!   

Interesting...never heard that one!

[steve roberts]

26 minutes ago, 25yearfan said:

Mauger while past his best still attained an 8+ average in 1984 and remember he only did it for mainly financial gain and everything was done on his terms, so it was mission achieved from his point of view. The big reason given for not riding in the away games was cause he had business commitments and racing commitments on the continent but I'm sure a big untold reason was that Ivan knew if he rode away meetings as well his average would of probably struggled to reach 6. - He'd only partially retired anyway so he could do it without disgracing himself, especially on his old stomping ground the notoriously home advantaged County Ground!

 

The likes of Chris Pusey and Eric Boocock cameback after lengthy spells out, in Boococks case 9 seasons so they were always going to find it difficult. Puseys was especially sad cause he couldn't adjust to life after speedway so thought he could make a comeback in a poor physical shape with an alcohol problem in what he thought would be a less competitive 2nd Division.

 

One must remember that nearly all riders start racing cause they love the thrill of it so its to be expected that some like to continue racing some sort of motorcycle sport just cause they love it. I've watched ex Rayleigh rider terry Stone have races on his vintage bikes!. 

 

   

That was part of a conversation I had with Ian Cartwright (one time "Duke") on one of my visits to "Mouseman" at Kilburn of which he is a director...a very nice, humble man by the way.

[fatface]

3 hours ago, geoff100 said:

Chris pusey rode for the comets early season very overweight red as a beetroot after the race sad to see and thankfully didnt last long.on the plus side terry kelly had his best year as a comet.

Yes, I see the point here. I suppose it's all in context.

Mauger was helping out and Morton was doing it just for fun. If you know that and they still show the odd glimpse it makes it  more acceptable. I also saw Eric Boocock's comeback and that was a less pretty sight. Pusey too was a guy with issues and I am sure that was a pretty sad sight too.

[25yearfan]

When you say helping out I think Ivan Maugers desire was more about helping out his pension pot more than it was about helping out his old mate Peter Oakes but then again Mauger was in a position to manipulate the situation to his advantage!

 

Chris Morton was still very competitive when he cameback with Sheffield in 1993 and thats the key element cause if your not competitive its no good especially at a professional level! 

Edited February 9, 2021 by 25yearfan

[Najjer]

I’ve seen him mentioned on here already, but Jordan Frampton would be great. He was set to get abit further in the sport and I always felt like he could of done a ‘Charles Wright’ and gone to the top of the British scene, especially given the standard nowadays. 

I don’t think he’s interested anymore in regular action but still had a few practices fairly recently at Somerset within the last few years.

Edited February 9, 2021 by Najjer

[25yearfan]

Yes Jordan Frampton was a talented rider who seemed to progress very quickly in a short space of time which indicates he could of gone further had he kept going?

[fatface]

16 minutes ago, 25yearfan said:

When you say helping out I think Ivan Maugers desire was more about helping out his pension pot more than it was about helping out his old mate Peter Oakes but then again Mauger was in a position to manipulate the situation to his advantage!

 

Chris Morton was still very competitive when he cameback with Sheffield in 1993 and thats the key element cause if your not competitive its no good especially at a professional level! 

Ha! You may well be right on Mauger.

As for Mort. Whilst he was still competitive at Sheffield, he struggled badly on the away tracks. As above, I enjoyed his comeback. But I'm also glad it didn't extend beyond a year. 

[25yearfan]

1 minute ago, falcace said:

Ha! You may well be right on Mauger.

As for Mort. Whilst he was still competitive at Sheffield, he struggled badly on the away tracks. As above, I enjoyed his comeback. But I'm also glad it didn't extend beyond a year. 

Yes Ivan Mauger certainly knew his value and quite rightfully fully exploited it!

 

I went to a Peterborough V Sheffield fixture in 1993 when I recall Mort beating Mick Poole around there in the days when Poole could of almost won a GP round on the Showground track where he was nigh on unbeatable, so he had a few moments away from home! - Like you say though it was for the best that Mort didn't extend his comeback to the following season! 

[FAST GATER]

Every rider that has mentioned or said they are considering  retirement immediately lose something IMO and once they do stop riding no matter what happens they are never quite the same again , as if something is switched off that can't be turned back on again .

I would say it is easier for gaters than "from the the back riders" to continue longer or make reasonable comebacks ,I am still amazed that Hancock (love or hate him) was not just a race winner but a possible GP winner at nearly 50 yrs old .I  for one was pleased he left the sport in tact personal reasons aside .