Sings4Speedway Posted February 2, 2021 Report Share Posted February 2, 2021 1 hour ago, phillwhitewasmad said: No the point is that certain teams namely Eastbourne and Glasgow insisted that teams were ever possible should remain the same so the starting point was that . So with Eastbourne having a 3 and 4 star riders already in for 2020 they could remain for 2021 .Newcastle and Redcar had to make changes anyway because of riders not coming back Riss was known well before the announcement the two foreigners at Newcastle had said weeks before so not in the equation for team changes under rising star programme. As previously said poole had to change due to 2 Aussie riders at reserve and Edinburgh because of not having a British rider who met the criteria. I don't understand why people are concerned about 2021 as it is just an expansion of 2020. Let's see what 2022 brings . the list is finalised for this year as teams were picked 20 months ago ps all promoters vote for this not just the directors 50p says 5 year plan torn up and brushed under the carpet. Until then im hope all riders enjoy the "equal set points money". It is lovely to see the optimism of some though i would love to hear the thoughts of Mr Harrison in 4 years time when his boy has been treated like dirt by multiple promotions. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillwhitewasmad Posted February 2, 2021 Report Share Posted February 2, 2021 4 minutes ago, Sings4Speedway said: 50p says 5 year plan torn up and brushed under the carpet. Until then im hope all riders enjoy the "equal set points money". It is lovely to see the optimism of some though i would love to hear the thoughts of Mr Harrison in 4 years time when his boy has been treated like dirt by multiple promotions. only time will tell I,m under no illusions as to what could happen at least I,m safe in the knowledge that we wont have to go to edinburgh or plymouth . until riders accept that the lower levels of speedway in the uk are a paid hobby we will continue to struggle. Also riders do not have to accept the equal set money deals they can if the decide to drop out of the scheme and do there own deals and in fairness as you will see from my posts i say it as i see it so if its crap i will say so 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sings4Speedway Posted February 2, 2021 Report Share Posted February 2, 2021 17 minutes ago, phillwhitewasmad said: only time will tell I,m under no illusions as to what could happen at least I,m safe in the knowledge that we wont have to go to edinburgh or plymouth . until riders accept that the lower levels of speedway in the uk are a paid hobby we will continue to struggle. Also riders do not have to accept the equal set money deals they can if the decide to drop out of the scheme and do there own deals and in fairness as you will see from my posts i say it as i see it so if its crap i will say so No Edinburgh or Plymouth? Are these teams dropping out of the Championship or are your plans to bypass the NDL? (if there is one left). As for the set money deals it wasn't so much as accepting them as the fact that nobody will stick to it, with the last draft system and the £40 limit riders at some teams were getting double that plus big sponsor deals whilst a few stuck to it and saw their draft picks struggle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted February 2, 2021 Report Share Posted February 2, 2021 4 hours ago, Bagpuss said: The journey or the track In some cases probably both. This is not a criticism of the Promotion who do a fine job.It just fact that most modern day speedway youngsters don’t have the technical skills required to ride Armadale correctly.Even experienced riders have difficulty with modern day machinery. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secsy1 Posted February 2, 2021 Report Share Posted February 2, 2021 Just noticed that Connor Bailey has a 3 star rating, is this due to him being considered a good future star above several riders with 2 stars who have been around a long time? Seems like several riders like Jamie Halder and a few others don't appear on the list. Any particular reasons? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotallyHonestJohn Posted February 2, 2021 Report Share Posted February 2, 2021 4 hours ago, phillwhitewasmad said: ps all promoters vote for this not just the directors Don't think that's correct Phil... ask ya man... not so much as a vote but rather a "here you go" Regards THJ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotallyHonestJohn Posted February 2, 2021 Report Share Posted February 2, 2021 2 hours ago, phillwhitewasmad said: Also riders do not have to accept the equal set money deals they can if the decide to drop out of the scheme and do there own deals and in fairness as you will see from my posts i say it as i see it so if its crap i will say so So to expand on what S4S states above... all a club has to do is say to one of these kids drop out of the draft system as we want you and will pay you double the rate and a big sign on fee to join us and where does that leave the club who has the first draft pick and wanted said "Rising Star" a system is only as fair as the "cheating bar stewards" who are in the programme allow it to be... Regards THJ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HGould Posted February 2, 2021 Report Share Posted February 2, 2021 15 minutes ago, TotallyHonestJohn said: So to expand on what S4S states above... all a club has to do is say to one of these kids drop out of the draft system as we want you and will pay you double the rate and a big sign on fee to join us and where does that leave the club who has the first draft pick and wanted said "Rising Star" a system is only as fair as the "cheating bar stewards" who are in the programme allow it to be... Regards THJ interpretation of what's been said here is that would not be a problem. Problem would be the kid could not ride at 6 or 7 s would have to be on Rising Star Programme but would have to ride in top 5? May be I've misunderstood but that's my interpretation 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortythirtyeight Posted February 2, 2021 Report Share Posted February 2, 2021 5 hours ago, phillwhitewasmad said: No the point is that certain teams namely Eastbourne and Glasgow insisted that teams were ever possible should remain the same so the starting point was that . So with Eastbourne having a 3 and 4 star riders already in for 2020 they could remain for 2021 .Newcastle and Redcar had to make changes anyway because of riders not coming back Riss was known well before the announcement the two foreigners at Newcastle had said weeks before so not in the equation for team changes under rising star programme. As previously said poole had to change due to 2 Aussie riders at reserve and Edinburgh because of not having a British rider who met the criteria. I don't understand why people are concerned about 2021 as it is just an expansion of 2020. Let's see what 2022 brings . the list is finalised for this year as teams were picked 20 months ago ps all promoters vote for this not just the directors Your point about promoters votes is not true. The mafia re instated the no votes for new promoters for 3 years at the 2018/19 AGM so that’s Berwick, Birmingham, Redcar , Newcastle , and now Poole and probably Plymouth. That’s half the division ! 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ringitsneck Posted February 2, 2021 Report Share Posted February 2, 2021 5 minutes ago, Fortythirtyeight said: Your point about promoters votes is not true. The mafia re instated the no votes for new promoters for 3 years at the 2018/19 AGM so that’s Berwick, Birmingham, Redcar , Newcastle , and now Poole and probably Plymouth. That’s half the division ! And half of the other half are Directors ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enotian Posted February 2, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2021 1 hour ago, TotallyHonestJohn said: So to expand on what S4S states above... all a club has to do is say to one of these kids drop out of the draft system as we want you and will pay you double the rate and a big sign on fee to join us and where does that leave the club who has the first draft pick and wanted said "Rising Star" a system is only as fair as the "cheating bar stewards" who are in the programme allow it to be... Regards THJ Who said there was a draft??? I'm sure there isn't. Newcastle finished near the bottom of the 2019 table. I'm sure they'd have picked a Flint or a Kemp or a Palin ahead of an Alcock. I'm certain any club can approach any rider on the list and offer them a place. That rider might accept or reject that offer. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sings4Speedway Posted February 2, 2021 Report Share Posted February 2, 2021 18 minutes ago, enotian said: Who said there was a draft??? I'm sure there isn't. Newcastle finished near the bottom of the 2019 table. I'm sure they'd have picked a Flint or a Kemp or a Palin ahead of an Alcock. I'm certain any club can approach any rider on the list and offer them a place. That rider might accept or reject that offer. No draft this season but alluded to by those who have seen the full lists and 'rules' that a draft may exist when it goes to two riders per team. Fortunately all the mistakes of the previous draft systems will have been learned from, the mistakes rectified and we will see lots of even balanced and entertaining speedway over the next few years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotallyHonestJohn Posted February 2, 2021 Report Share Posted February 2, 2021 (edited) 27 minutes ago, enotian said: Who said there was a draft??? I'm sure there isn't. Newcastle finished near the bottom of the 2019 table. I'm sure they'd have picked a Flint or a Kemp or a Palin ahead of an Alcock. I'm certain any club can approach any rider on the list and offer them a place. That rider might accept or reject that offer. Honestly We should really wait until the detail is known to be fair... But here is an educated (or not) guess! if it helps... Looking at this from the outside I believe next year for the double pick there will be a draft as alluded to so the bottom team in the league will get first pick of all available riders however the club who the RS rider has last ridden for gets "First Dibbs" on the rider they have used the previous season; So guessing at an example (and I'm sorry for keep using Leon but he is a good example of a good RS prospect) Berwick use Leon Flint all this season and his average stays about the same this year so they say we are keeping him and he stays as a 3*RS (at No6) they then bring in Archie Freeman as their 1*RS (at No7) next year; the following year 2023 if both riders stay the same RS wise Berwick have the choice to keep one of the RS riders but the other one is released for the draft pick... they do not become club assets as a RS... they become club assets once out of the RS programme... or again in the above scenario in the third year if Leon becomes a 4*RS but moves into the main body of the Berwick team with an average and Archie becomes a 2* RS they can then keep Archie (or get rid) and bring in a draft pick 2* or 1*RS as the new reserve... However Leon will still be a 4* RS rider for the top league to use... Simples.... Regards THJ Edited February 2, 2021 by TotallyHonestJohn missed out key words 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enotian Posted February 2, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2021 7 minutes ago, TotallyHonestJohn said: Honestly We should really wait until the detail is known to be fair... But here is an educated (or not) guess! if it helps... Looking at this from the outside I believe next year for the double pick there will be a draft as alluded to so the bottom team in the league will get first pick of all available riders however the club who the RS rider has last ridden for gets "First Dibbs" on the rider they have used the previous season; So guessing at an example (and I'm sorry for keep using Leon but he is a good example of a good RS prospect) Berwick use Leon Flint all this season and his average stays about the same this year so they say we are keeping him and he stays as a 3*RS (at No6) they then bring in Archie Freeman as their 1*RS (at No7) next year; the following year 2023 if both riders stay the same RS wise Berwick have the choice to keep one of the RS riders but the other one is released for the draft pick... they do not become club assets as a RS... they become club assets once out of the RS programme... or again in the above scenario in the third year if Leon becomes a 4*RS but moves into the main body of the Berwick team with an average and Archie becomes a 2* RS they can then keep Archie (or get rid) and bring in a draft pick 2* or 1*RS as the new reserve... However Leon will still be a 4* RS rider for the top league to use... Simples.... Regards THJ dont like the sound of that one little bit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotallyHonestJohn Posted February 2, 2021 Report Share Posted February 2, 2021 Just now, enotian said: dont like the sound of that one little bit Hey I could be totally wide of the mark but when you read between the lines of what folk are posting I will guarantee it will be something contrived as the BSPL always do that... they put so many rules and regulations into a plan to try and stop promoters manipulating the system or cheating but in the very fact that they put all these rules and guidelines in place the usual suspects usually find a way to get what they want and end up driving a bus through them... Regards THJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enotian Posted February 2, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2021 3 minutes ago, TotallyHonestJohn said: Hey I could be totally wide of the mark but when you read between the lines of what folk are posting I will guarantee it will be something contrived as the BSPL always do that... they put so many rules and regulations into a plan to try and stop promoters manipulating the system or cheating but in the very fact that they put all these rules and guidelines in place the usual suspects usually find a way to get what they want and end up driving a bus through them... Regards THJ It's like a metaphor for Lockdown isn't it!!! Maybe Godfrey suggested the Scotch Egg As you say we should wait for the full details. Ultimately, what ever they decide won't be the reason I'd decide not to attend but might be for some. Just like the offside rule, that many laws to make it 'fairer' to the extent that everyones forgotten what the rule is for. Hopefully the promoters remember what the reason for developing British talent is and don't ruin it with red tape and regulations. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillwhitewasmad Posted February 2, 2021 Report Share Posted February 2, 2021 5 hours ago, Sings4Speedway said: No Edinburgh or Plymouth? Are these teams dropping out of the Championship or are your plans to bypass the NDL? (if there is one left). As for the set money deals it wasn't so much as accepting them as the fact that nobody will stick to it, with the last draft system and the £40 limit riders at some teams were getting double that plus big sponsor deals whilst a few stuck to it and saw their draft picks struggle. we dont have to accept the draft pick from them as per the set criteria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillwhitewasmad Posted February 2, 2021 Report Share Posted February 2, 2021 3 hours ago, HGould said: interpretation of what's been said here is that would not be a problem. Problem would be the kid could not ride at 6 or 7 s would have to be on Rising Star Programme but would have to ride in top 5? May be I've misunderstood but that's my interpretation no you understand it correctly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillwhitewasmad Posted February 2, 2021 Report Share Posted February 2, 2021 2 hours ago, enotian said: Who said there was a draft??? I'm sure there isn't. Newcastle finished near the bottom of the 2019 table. I'm sure they'd have picked a Flint or a Kemp or a Palin ahead of an Alcock. I'm certain any club can approach any rider on the list and offer them a place. That rider might accept or reject that offer. draft is for 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted February 2, 2021 Report Share Posted February 2, 2021 (edited) They certainly have a way of complicating things. Edited February 3, 2021 by Fromafar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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