Whats actually going on?

[Fromafar]

Double Headers for Clubs like Berwick and Newcastle won’t benefit them financially in anyway IMO.( they may not lose money though)The Championship will be watered down in the next few years to suit the youngsters coming through IMO.Whether that will benefit the sport remains to be seen. When will the realise averages are not working as well as they think they are.

[Ringitsneck]

6 minutes ago, Fromafar said:

Double Headers for Clubs like Berwick and Newcastle won’t benefit them financially in anyway IMO.( they may not lose money though)The Championship will be watered down in the next few years to suit the youngsters coming through IMO.Whether that will benefit the sport remains to be seen. When will the realise averages are not working as well as they think they are.

It’s the PREMIERSHIP that is not working the way it should be. The problem starts at the top and works its way down. As it’s mostly championship riders ( on bigger wages ) it is not what it claims to be. It either should be done away with or revamped to be just that, a ‘ Premiership ‘ without championship riders and ‘ rising stars’ .

[mikebv]

3 hours ago, arnieg said:

I thought Mr Godfrey's comments about Plymouth and Kent were particularly disingenuous, short sighted and stupid. Without a third tier that works for stand-alone clubs there would have been no Kent or Plymouth available to supplement the crumbling ranks of the senior leagues. Somerset, Trelawny, Mildenhall, Rye House, Berwick, Eastbourne, Stoke, Isle of Wight and SCUNTHORPE all moved up to/ returned to the professional leagues after running as stand alone clubs in the third tier. (In addition it provided a place for Birmingham and Oxford to carry on when they went bust mid season)

There are now fewer 'professional' clubs running than at any time since 1959. Next time Godfrey wants re-inforcements for his crumbling edifice where will he find them?

The difference is of course that for many of the clubs you mention, who pushed up wages, who gave contracts to NL 'lifers', and worked under a sustainable operating model and business plan whilst in the third tier...

Are now no longer in it...

Instead they are reaping in the higher divisions what they themselves heavily contributed to sowing whilst in the NL.

A neck made of pure brass some people...

 

[Fromafar]

6 hours ago, Ringitsneck said:

It’s the PREMIERSHIP that is not working the way it should be. The problem starts at the top and works its way down. As it’s mostly championship riders ( on bigger wages ) it is not what it claims to be. It either should be done away with or revamped to be just that, a ‘ Premiership ‘ without championship riders and ‘ rising stars’ .

I Agree.

[ReginaldSpeed]

For 2021, National league riders have now been asked to supply and pay for their own rear tyres which are £42 each per meeting, whereas, last year they were commonly supplied by the club. Simultaneously, i've heard price money rates have been slashed in half to £10 a point for a reserve. Additionally all tyres are only to be ANLAS, even in the amateur ‘national league’, despite there being stockpiles of MITAS tyres already in the country not used from 2020, many in the hands of small privately owned and operated spares vans who now do not have a market for them. Presumably, BSPL Ltd. receive a healthy incentive from the monopoly of ANLAS tyres in the British leagues (as I have heard the MITAS deal was generous). These new rules will hit the young riders who are trying to make a start in the sport in revised Conference League, by prize money going directly to pay for tyres. Following Rob Godfrey's article in the Speedway Star, if he is truly ‘subsidising’ the national league and wants more upcoming riders, surely he should allow other tyre brands or only used tyres (like in the youth rounds used to) so the National League riders do not lose a fortune racing NL speedway?

[mac101]

i have 8 new mitas tyres that was bought for last season  but now only good for practice and maybe amature meetings 

[Sings4Speedway]

11 hours ago, TwoFourSpeed said:

For 2021, National league riders have now been asked to supply and pay for their own rear tyres which are £42 each per meeting, whereas, last year they were commonly supplied by the club. Simultaneously, i've heard price money rates have been slashed in half to £10 a point for a reserve. Additionally all tyres are only to be ANLAS, even in the amateur ‘national league’, despite there being stockpiles of MITAS tyres already in the country not used from 2020, many in the hands of small privately owned and operated spares vans who now do not have a market for them. Presumably, BSPL Ltd. receive a healthy incentive from the monopoly of ANLAS tyres in the British leagues (as I have heard the MITAS deal was generous). These new rules will hit the young riders who are trying to make a start in the sport in revised Conference League, by prize money going directly to pay for tyres. Following Rob Godfrey's article in the Speedway Star, if he is truly ‘subsidising’ the national league and wants more upcoming riders, surely he should allow other tyre brands or only used tyres (like in the youth rounds used to) so the National League riders do not lose a fortune racing NL speedway?

 

Prize money rates may have been cut but i strongly suspect that there will be deals for some to top up earnings whilst others should be quite grateful of the opportunity at £10 a point. The sport and pay levels haven't been fair for a long time and i don't see that changing any time soon. 

The tyre enforcement is poor though and it would be far better if the league was allowed to run any legal tyres, winding down the stocks of Mitas whilst offering the chance for Anlas to be experimented with. Tyres have long been sponsored by initiatives outside of just the pay scheme so i don't see why that should stop and why clubs won't find a way around it.

[mac101]

when they changed from red banded mitas to yellow and band the red ones most nl riders had loads of really good 2nd hand red band ones and turned up with them on there bikes so they ended letting them use the reds ones in the nl hope they see sence and let the lower league use any legal tyre ,i know loads of nl riders with a stack of mitas tyres in there workshop 

[ONTWOMINUTES]

Quite a few riders will not score enough to pay for their own tyre , that's totally mad . They then have fuel and general wear ontop of that . Good job these boys aren't professional ? Oh wait , some probably are . Time to get some good sponsors or the bank of mum and dad . After all this I just hope they all enjoy racing and stay safe. 

Edited March 18, 2021 by ONTWOMINUTES

[Sings4Speedway]

51 minutes ago, ONTWOMINUTES said:

Quite a few riders will not score enough to pay for their own tyre , that's totally mad . They then have fuel and general wear ontop of that . Good job these boys aren't professional ? Oh wait , some of probably are . Time to get some good sponsors or the bank of mum and dad . After all this I just hope they all enjoy racing and stay safe. 

Thats sadly where the sport at this level is going to see an even greater divide and even more natural ability will be lost. We already face a time where there is GP level equipment available and used in the NL for thos with deep pockets whilst others will struggle to pay for the tyre, a reserve who gets all 4 rides and pockets a point a time would be having a decent emerging season and yet won't even cover the rubber burnt

[phillwhitewasmad]

2 hours ago, ONTWOMINUTES said:

Quite a few riders will not score enough to pay for their own tyre , that's totally mad . They then have fuel and general wear ontop of that . Good job these boys aren't professional ? Oh wait , some probably are . Time to get some good sponsors or the bank of mum and dad . After all this I just hope they all enjoy racing and stay safe. 

Thing is from my experience i dont believe that any of the parents of the up and coming crop of riders who have funded them so far expect for the funding levels to drop just because they are in a paid position. We certainly dont and have had long conversations with others who all believe that funding if development continues will be into the lads early 20s. Personally we have told our pilot that if it isnt covering costs by this time he has to fund it himself or pack it in. Its a development league not fully expensed professional league. 

[Sings4Speedway]

16 minutes ago, phillwhitewasmad said:

Thing is from my experience i dont believe that any of the parents of the up and coming crop of riders who have funded them so far expect for the funding levels to drop just because they are in a paid position. We certainly dont and have had long conversations with others who all believe that funding if development continues will be into the lads early 20s. Personally we have told our pilot that if it isnt covering costs by this time he has to fund it himself or pack it in. Its a development league not fully expensed professional league. 

Whilst you are entirely right that costs shouldn't be covered there has to be a level of subsidising to make a NDL place worth it. The current proposed differences between amateur events and the NDL is that at amateur events its pay to ride but with the option to choose when and where you ride (within reason of operating tracks) vs small points monies, fuel contribution but told when and where you must ride. With the midweek matches, loss of earning etc i can see that some will be viewing a crack at league racing just not worth it.

[gazzac]

1 hour ago, Sings4Speedway said:

Whilst you are entirely right that costs shouldn't be covered there has to be a level of subsidising to make a NDL place worth it. The current proposed differences between amateur events and the NDL is that at amateur events its pay to ride but with the option to choose when and where you ride (within reason of operating tracks) vs small points monies, fuel contribution but told when and where you must ride. With the midweek matches, loss of earning etc i can see that some will be viewing a crack at league racing just not worth it.

I think you're going to see in the next few seasons if it will be the case, and unfortunately I think you'll be right, potentially good riders won't give it a go.I can't see the continuation of the conveyor belt we've started over the last 5 years with the lads who are making it to the premiership and championship , Kemp, Brennan, Palin plus about 20 others on the way to that point and instead of trying to bring more youngsters in will have the opposite effect unless they've substantial backing.

Edited March 18, 2021 by gazzac

[phillwhitewasmad]

4 hours ago, Sings4Speedway said:

Whilst you are entirely right that costs shouldn't be covered there has to be a level of subsidising to make a NDL place worth it. The current proposed differences between amateur events and the NDL is that at amateur events its pay to ride but with the option to choose when and where you ride (within reason of operating tracks) vs small points monies, fuel contribution but told when and where you must ride. With the midweek matches, loss of earning etc i can see that some will be viewing a crack at league racing just not worth it.

Thing is it's a training league whether people like it or not and taking time off work for midweek matches is how speedway runs. If it can't be done at NDL level unfortunately you won't manage at championship level either .agreed some will fall by the wayside and others will progress for a multitude of reasons . Those who can fund the development won't leave because of this it will be other influences 

[barrybishop]

10 hours ago, phillwhitewasmad said:

Thing is it's a training league whether people like it or not and taking time off work for midweek matches is how speedway runs. If it can't be done at NDL level unfortunately you won't manage at championship level either .agreed some will fall by the wayside and others will progress for a multitude of reasons . Those who can fund the development won't leave because of this it will be other influences 

The problem is it ALWAYS has been a training league that delivered riders at a greater rate to the higher leagues than any other route. But what this has now become is a misguided, not thought through, imposition in order to "reduce" costs of reserve rider wages for higher leagues. That's the fact of it - remember we attended the 2020 AGM. Costs Costs Costs... Riders not wanting to go up because they were sitting pretty in a league that still delivered riders to the higher leagues year on year on year, yet managed to provide a product and standard close to the CL enabling that step up to happen (not in all cases).... but now, lets get down to real business .... Even when the higher leagues can have the riders for their teams how many do they actually employ....and it will have been even less before the young stars program ?? 

[mikebv]

33 minutes ago, barrybishop said:

The problem is it ALWAYS has been a training league that delivered riders at a greater rate to the higher leagues than any other route. But what this has now become is a misguided, not thought through, imposition in order to "reduce" costs of reserve rider wages for higher leagues. That's the fact of it - remember we attended the 2020 AGM. Costs Costs Costs... Riders not wanting to go up because they were sitting pretty in a league that still delivered riders to the higher leagues year on year on year, yet managed to provide a product and standard close to the CL enabling that step up to happen (not in all cases).... but now, lets get down to real business .... Even when the higher leagues can have the riders for their teams how many do they actually employ....and it will have been even less before the young stars program ?? 

I think its very telling by the lack of Premiership teams who run a "junior team", and how many Championship teams have launched one, that one of the reasons for what has taken place is down to trying to clearly get a demarcation in standards between the Championship and the NDL..

It isnt a hard sell for Belle Vue to sell Premiership and NDL Speedway as the standards are so different, which is then reflected in the price...

However,  I would imagine it would have been a tough ask to sell the Championship to fans of joint Championship/NDL teams when you would have paid around £17/£18 to watch seven or eight or so riders that a week later you could have paid out a tenner to see all of them ride at the same venue..

You would have been struggling to justify an 80% price point differential I would think..

 

 

Edited March 19, 2021 by mikebv

[MattB]

On 2/27/2021 at 8:21 PM, Hawk127 said:

Sad that the current cronies of this once good sport have stifled one of the few bright hopes when it comes to running meetings as an entertainment. IOW have lead the way in how an evening of speedway should be presented engaging with fans etc just as it used to be in days gone by and probably this goes back in the late 60’s and 70’s and the days of leaping Len, dearly departed Dave Lanning at Eastbourne and the great JH at Canterbury. What is it the BSPL are thinking when they have/are driving clubs. out of business. Those in authority are probably taking a leaf out of dictator Boris Johnson’s book and do as I say. For those who run the sport they still expect the paying punter to turn up week in week out without question. If ever an independent enquiry was needed to investigate as to how speedway is run in this country, now is that time. I doubt that anyone of those who voted on these measures or sit on the board or are part of the committee, have the balls to be answerable for the issues by coming on this forum and deal with the questioning from those who really care about speedway in this country. The BSPL has no balls when it comes to being accountable.

I can't escape the feeling that a portion of this is driven by jealousy of what the IOW have been doing in terms of promoting "outside the box" as it were. 

[crescent girl]

Looking at the IoW situation from afar, l'm baffled as to why such a go-ahead, progressive promotion (as l'm repeatedly told they are) felt they couldn't continue to promote their terrific brand of speedway in what would be a nine-team NDL?

All the reduced points limit would in effect have meant is they would have to replace one seven-point rider with a new three-pointer -- and if their promotional ideas are so effervescent, their shows so attractive to their public -- surely this shouldn't have been a deal-breaker?

The NDL set-up seems to suit the other eight teams well enough -- what is it that the IoW promotion feel would prevent them continuing to put on their much-acclaimed presentations?

[Ringitsneck]

11 minutes ago, crescent girl said:

Looking at the IoW situation from afar, l'm baffled as to why such a go-ahead, progressive promotion (as l'm repeatedly told they are) felt they couldn't continue to promote their terrific brand of speedway in what would be a nine-team NDL?

All the reduced points limit would in effect have meant is they would have to replace one seven-point rider with a new three-pointer -- and if their promotional ideas are so effervescent, their shows so attractive to their public -- surely this shouldn't have been a deal-breaker?

The NDL set-up seems to suit the other eight teams well enough -- what is it that the IoW promotion feel would prevent them continuing to put on their much-acclaimed presentations?

Ego perhaps ?

They have stated their case in umpteen forms and that’s fine, the final choice was theirs.

The claim about costs of reserves wages in the championship doesn’t hold true. Reserves will be paid what reserves get, no cost saving for anybody there. Mildenhall are giving it a go and the latest ‘ IOW for France’ headline is getting them the headlines they seek. I find it very sad that they felt the need to leave the NDL but it’s their business, they chose to leave so it’s their decision. I do hope they resurface somewhere down the line in the NDL or even championship.

[Whisperer]

21 minutes ago, crescent girl said:

Looking at the IoW situation from afar, l'm baffled as to why such a go-ahead, progressive promotion (as l'm repeatedly told they are) felt they couldn't continue to promote their terrific brand of speedway in what would be a nine-team NDL?

All the reduced points limit would in effect have meant is they would have to replace one seven-point rider with a new three-pointer -- and if their promotional ideas are so effervescent, their shows so attractive to their public -- surely this shouldn't have been a deal-breaker?

The NDL set-up seems to suit the other eight teams well enough -- what is it that the IoW promotion feel would prevent them continuing to put on their much-acclaimed presentations?

I think you've missed their point a little Dick, their irk is with the way it has been done without consultation or reference to the effect on the IOW. Barry has said on more than one occasion if there had been some discussion their may have been room for compromise or negotiation.