Whats actually going on?

[Islander15]

32 minutes ago, racers and royals said:

Can you summarise as that appears to be a private group.

STATEMENT and please read it all from Barry Bishop and Martin Widman, co-owners of Isle of Wight Speedway.
 
In a recent Mildenhall Speedway press release their team manager Malcolm Vasey was quoted extensively and some of his comments could only have referred to our heart-breaking decision to withdraw from the National League and the British Speedway Promoters' Limited following decisions taken about the rules for the 2021 season and beyond.
He said: “It would be so easy to say the new scheme of things is unacceptable and close down as others have. The owners of our Club have concluded that is not the way for our Mildenhall Fen Tigers. I back them to the hilt myself and hope that you will do the same. Bring your friends to West Row let’s live the dream together. Other teams have fallen by the wayside and we cannot allow that to happen here at Mildenhall. Tigers roar, please come back in numbers and show us." 
 
*********

Martin and I would like to give our fans, sponsors and volunteers the following message to reflect upon at this time.

For us it has been ANYTHING but EASY to say the new scheme of doing things in the 2021 National League is unacceptable. It has been ANYTHING but EASY to accept that our governing body, for the first time in its history (certainly in our history running the Warriors) I believe, took a decision that affects an entire league, a decision that was implemented not by the league members voting, but by the will of the few – the four members of the Board of the BSPL. They imposed the rules upon the league without consultation and agreement, without the NL representative (Len Silver) in attendance and an instruction to ‘do it this way or you are not in it’ with no confirmation that this way to implement new rules would not continue into next year and beyond.

It would have been ANYTHING but EASY for me to stand in front of you all at each meeting, welcoming you all to something I knew we did not believe in with rules that had been imposed upon us. Indeed, at the 2020 AGM, Martin and I had said we couldn’t stage speedway at  a 37 point maximum team average, let alone 35 points and Mr Vasey was one of the loudest opponents to the then attempt to weaken the league.

It would have been ANYTHING but EASY to accept this way of working from the governing body with this mantra – ‘Do as we tell you, but do it entirely at your risk and do it for our long-term benefit’. How is it even possible for any business to comply with this and who on earth agrees with it?

It would have been ANYTHING but EASY for us to allow riders to race against each other on our track, riders who we would not put out at the same time at our My First Skid training sessions. Yet we have to sell this to you as a sporting occasion, one we want you to tell your friends all about and encourage new supporters to come along and watch it.

It would have been ANYTHING but EASY to speak to our sponsors about something imposed upon us that we just don’t believe in. For Martin and I to accept the money of sponsors who believe in us, our ethos, and our vision that is taken away because others cannot get their own ship in order. No, this is not for us.

What would have been EASY would have been for the BSPL to engage with us, we needed contact with the Board or NL Co-ordinator and not only the Office Administrator – for this is the ONLY person who has communicated with us since early last year, before the scheduled start of the 2020 season, less an email or two from the NL Coordinator. This was a situation where we had to tell the BSPL if we were in or out before being allowed to attend the meeting, the ONLY zoom call since the 2020 NL AGM, and even then it was only a call to discuss who was in and to talk about the fixtures. 

Of course, we feel bad about not being able to provide positions for riders who thought they would be riding for us this year, but you can also see the effect it is having on other teams where riders are being ‘sacked’ because their averages don't fit with the new team limits. Good, solid, loyal riders dumped at the drop of a hat.

So, Warriors and Wizard fans, we will leave it to you to decide if you think we have let you down, or if you think we have taken the EASY route, because those who know us, will know it has broken our hearts to take this decision. But in our view, it is the right one.

[Islander15]

13 minutes ago, Bagpuss said:

So am I right in thinking the points limit reduction is an effort to get more genuine youngsters and novices into the NL and clear out a few older, ‘professional’ third division riders who have been riding at this level for several years? Or am I misunderstanding? 

I personally feel like this is one reason but there are 2 reasons and HT has pointed out the other.

They may have achieved in getting more second teams to take part, but at what cost? Pushing out standalone teams, so-called ghost teams and not even ‘clearing’ out all of the career NL riders. 

[secsy1]

3 minutes ago, Islander15 said:

I personally feel like this is one reason but there are 2 reasons and HT has pointed out the other.

They may have achieved in getting more second teams to take part, but at what cost? Pushing out standalone teams, so-called ghost teams and not even ‘clearing’ out all of the career NL riders. 

Think it was one of the reasons, but who are the ones left?

[moomin man 76]

1 hour ago, arnieg said:

A candid post on Facebook from Barry and Martin

https://m.facebook.com/groups/216596265131644/permalink/2742996475824931/?anchor_composer=false

It makes for interesting reading. Given the reported lack of communication from the BSPL, it appears that the stand alone NL clubs were sold down the river with a take it or leave it for the NL this year.

I suspect this is all part of a plan to 'consolidate' the sport and turn the NL into a reserve team competition, with the stand alone tracks driven out of business.

How Mildenhall will survive with six league meetings, plus a few 'open' filler meetings is beyond me.

[Hawk127]

Sad that the current cronies of this once good sport have stifled one of the few bright hopes when it comes to running meetings as an entertainment. IOW have lead the way in how an evening of speedway should be presented engaging with fans etc just as it used to be in days gone by and probably this goes back in the late 60’s and 70’s and the days of leaping Len, dearly departed Dave Lanning at Eastbourne and the great JH at Canterbury. What is it the BSPL are thinking when they have/are driving clubs. out of business. Those in authority are probably taking a leaf out of dictator Boris Johnson’s book and do as I say. For those who run the sport they still expect the paying punter to turn up week in week out without question. If ever an independent enquiry was needed to investigate as to how speedway is run in this country, now is that time. I doubt that anyone of those who voted on these measures or sit on the board or are part of the committee, have the balls to be answerable for the issues by coming on this forum and deal with the questioning from those who really care about speedway in this country. The BSPL has no balls when it comes to being accountable.

[Mike.Butler]

I regret that the iow aren't running; but unless a club can run at a professional level (i.e championship), then they ride in a 3rd tier that should definitely in my opinion be a division that the likes of Buxton can be competitive in. I said a few years back that the national DEVELOPMENT league has been hi-jacked by dropping down clubs who were paying riders more money than should have been allowed at that level. Hence we lost stalwarts Buxton after years of struggle.

It seems the IOW (and possibly Mildenhall too), fall between the two levels and it's clear there aren't enough other stand-alone clubs left for a league at their ideal level. (in fact have there ever been?)..  I think on this occasion the right decision has prevailed...Winning the 3rd division should not be the priority of any of the competing teams...it should be about development..

Edited February 27, 2021 by Mike.Butler

[TMW]

If it’s shown that the powers that be have got any interest in developing young riders !  Bet they couldn’t name half of them. I’ll do a whole meeting on Coffee !! 

[phillwhitewasmad]

9 minutes ago, Mike.Butler said:

I regret that the iow aren't running; but unless a club can run at a professional level (i.e championship), then they ride in a 3rd tier that should definitely in my opinion be a division that the likes of Buxton can be competitive in. I said a few years back that the national DEVELOPMENT league has been hi-jacked by dropping down clubs who were paying riders more money than should have been allowed at that level. Hence we lost stalwarts Buxton after years of struggle.

It seems the IOW (and possibly Mildenhall too), fall between the two levels and it's clear there aren't enough other stand-alone clubs left for a league at their ideal level. (in fact have there ever been?)..  I think on this occasion the right decision has prevailed...Winning the 3rd division should not be the priority of any of the competing teams...it should be about development..

Fantastic post well thought out and a spot on assessment of how it should be

[Sings4Speedway]

11 hours ago, Mike.Butler said:

I regret that the iow aren't running; but unless a club can run at a professional level (i.e championship), then they ride in a 3rd tier that should definitely in my opinion be a division that the likes of Buxton can be competitive in. I said a few years back that the national DEVELOPMENT league has been hi-jacked by dropping down clubs who were paying riders more money than should have been allowed at that level. Hence we lost stalwarts Buxton after years of struggle.

It seems the IOW (and possibly Mildenhall too), fall between the two levels and it's clear there aren't enough other stand-alone clubs left for a league at their ideal level. (in fact have there ever been?)..  I think on this occasion the right decision has prevailed...Winning the 3rd division should not be the priority of any of the competing teams...it should be about development..

Whilst i agree to some point that winning the league shouldn't be the be all and end all when running in the NL there still hasvto be aspirations of success otherwise we end with the nonsense school sports day ethos of everyone gets a prize. 

The cut limit still doesn't prevent the better funded clubs luring the most promising riders on board and still leaving disparity between the competing levels. 

Had the averages been reduced gradually and a decreasing cap on max averages like no over 8 this year no over 7 next there would have been a gradual shift of riders at the top out of the league, middle order riders moving up and probably 2/3 new riders per team per season.  

To encourage clubs to look at development of upcoming riders they could have started giving extra track time and coaching in readiness. 

What we currently have is a glut of new riders this season with experienced heat leaders in the same side, next year the current crop will be out and new inexperienced riders in with the heat leaders staying put.

[phillwhitewasmad]

34 minutes ago, Sings4Speedway said:

Whilst i agree to some point that winning the league shouldn't be the be all and end all when running in the NL there still hasvto be aspirations of success otherwise we end with the nonsense school sports day ethos of everyone gets a prize. 

The cut limit still doesn't prevent the better funded clubs luring the most promising riders on board and still leaving disparity between the competing levels. 

Had the averages been reduced gradually and a decreasing cap on max averages like no over 8 this year no over 7 next there would have been a gradual shift of riders at the top out of the league, middle order riders moving up and probably 2/3 new riders per team per season.  

To encourage clubs to look at development of upcoming riders they could have started giving extra track time and coaching in readiness. 

What we currently have is a glut of new riders this season with experienced heat leaders in the same side, next year the current crop will be out and new inexperienced riders in with the heat leaders staying put.

Another good post but some clubs will never be encouraged to give extra track time and coaching to riders . I have lost count of the time's juniors have there spot at the end reduced because a senior wants to test something. He then proceeds to do a start and 20 wheelies.

please don't think the current crop of riders and those just behind them lack experience in racing. These groups have been at it for year racing nearly every week at amateur meetings and British youth level . Admittedly some are better than others but that's how things work but I don't see any of the dreaded wobblers everyone is worrying about.

[Sings4Speedway]

1 minute ago, phillwhitewasmad said:

Another good post but some clubs will never be encouraged to give extra track time and coaching to riders . I have lost count of the time's juniors have there spot at the end reduced because a senior wants to test something. He then proceeds to do a start and 20 wheelies.

please don't think the current crop of riders and those just behind them lack experience in racing. These groups have been at it for year racing nearly every week at amateur meetings and British youth level . Admittedly some are better than others but that's how things work but I don't see any of the dreaded wobblers everyone is worrying about.

Agreed that the effort from clubs to develop the next crop can be found lacking which is why it should be incentivised in some way. 

Ive only seen one or two true wobblers named but how many of the current signings would have been in contention at the old points limit? From an amateur level riders would need to be in the top half of the open grade to be capable. Fine for this year? but next year the standard available will be even lower with available 3 pointers the bottom half of the open class, those who haven't increased thier averages this season and a few graduating juniors who will probably get to number 1 at the first set of averages. 

[East End Fan]

5 minutes ago, phillwhitewasmad said:

Another good post but some clubs will never be encouraged to give extra track time and coaching to riders . I have lost count of the time's juniors have there spot at the end reduced because a senior wants to test something. He then proceeds to do a start and 20 wheelies.

please don't think the current crop of riders and those just behind them lack experience in racing. These groups have been at it for year racing nearly every week at amateur meetings and British youth level . Admittedly some are better than others but that's how things work but I don't see any of the dreaded wobblers everyone is worrying about.

Since Arena closed, I have been watching National League almost every week.  I have been surprised at how fast they are and how good the racing

has been.  Very entertaining to me.  I get a lot of interest in watching new riders develop and trying to pick future winners.  Over many years I have

followed the game at every level and all have been entertaining to me for different reasons. 

[szkocjasid]

1 hour ago, Sings4Speedway said:

Whilst i agree to some point that winning the league shouldn't be the be all and end all when running in the NL there still hasvto be aspirations of success otherwise we end with the nonsense school sports day ethos of everyone gets a prize. 

The cut limit still doesn't prevent the better funded clubs luring the most promising riders on board and still leaving disparity between the competing levels. 

Had the averages been reduced gradually and a decreasing cap on max averages like no over 8 this year no over 7 next there would have been a gradual shift of riders at the top out of the league, middle order riders moving up and probably 2/3 new riders per team per season. 

I don't think this would work at all, in 2019 there were 15 riders on 8+ averages & another 4 on 7+. I can't see the Championship clubs bringing on 19 new riders each season, so all that would happen is promising riders being lost to the sport!

[Sings4Speedway]

8 minutes ago, East End Fan said:

Since Arena closed, I have been watching National League almost every week.  I have been surprised at how fast they are and how good the racing

has been.  Very entertaining to me.  I get a lot of interest in watching new riders develop and trying to pick future winners.  Over many years I have

followed the game at every level and all have been entertaining to me for different reasons. 

The NL has always been a hidden gem of ability and entertainment. Yes its got its faults but far less than the higher divisions which is why is a huge shame that it is being torn down to reduce the threat to higher divisions and only serve them rather than serve the riders and existing fans.  There is a minimum standard people are prepared to pay for regularly and especially at current rates. I fear this year or next it will be tough to get £13-15 for a lesser product at stand-alone meetings especially with so few meetings to generate any bond/interest. 

Not sure genuinely how many clubs could accommodate double headers for two levels and would get support with price increases to fund it. I remember Peterborough recently asked opinion of would and extra £5 be ok for a NL 2nd fixture and was met with a resounding no.

[Sings4Speedway]

1 minute ago, szkocjasid said:

I don't think this would work at all, in 2019 there were 15 riders on 8+ averages & another 4 on 7+. I can't see the Championship clubs bringing on 19 new riders each season, so all that would happen is promising riders being lost to the sport!

Whilst i agree that would partly then be for the higher leagues to accommodate them and would mean the genuine riders get chances and those that progress to 7+ in NL but cant go further dont remain in it for too long blocking up spaces. 

[barrybishop]

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for your comments and posts which I appreciate and read with great interest.

I would like to say that in order to have a virtually amateur 3rd tier of speedway it needs to be either funded by the governing body or the governing body wave all its charges. The issue to put on any speedway meeting under the BSPL is that it is now a business and as a business it has have revenue and directors must act in the best interest of that business. How does the BSPL raise revenue? Through match fees, sales of rights (TV) and sponsorship.

What do clubs have to pay excluding travel and riders points money and assume that all staff volunteer.... well BSPA Fees, SC license fees, Referee Fees, Insurance, Fixed insurance, Medical ambulance, Medical Paramedic plus advertising budget, program and so on.... so with everything before the plus.. for the IOW to stage speedway it is £1325.... oh then there is stadium rental on top of that too and this is before we can advertise, pay a rider home and away........

So let's look at the options for NL in my view to make it work.

1. Purely amateur (no paid riders as in motocross) and BSPL use money from TV deals to cover all costs associated with putting the meeting on. Entry for fans for say £5 and perhaps cover the clubs stadium rental.

2. Purely amateur and riders pay to enter (to cover costs would mean each rider for a 7 rider team had to pay £94.60 home and away) and the club is responsible for all costs which then raises some revenue for BSPL - Entry for fans for say £5 and perhaps cover the clubs stadium rental.

3. Structured pay scales, proper sellable product, with fans prepared to be entertained, a real structure to move forward, step by step progress, a club to be proud of.

My personal view is the only one able to work is number 3... 1 and 2 will always be seen as an overhead and the same as the current push toward second teams in double headers. My fear is that 7 riders teams will be reduced to 5, then 4 and guess what we are back 20 years but without riders and promoters who want to support it.

As for Buxton being drawn back in to the league... the opportunity is there but not taken, and I understand will not be either.

As always keep safe and stay positive.

All the best

Barry 

[TMW]

13 hours ago, Mike.Butler said:

I regret that the iow aren't running; but unless a club can run at a professional level (i.e championship), then they ride in a 3rd tier that should definitely in my opinion be a division that the likes of Buxton can be competitive in. I said a few years back that the national DEVELOPMENT league has been hi-jacked by dropping down clubs who were paying riders more money than should have been allowed at that level. Hence we lost stalwarts Buxton after years of struggle.

It seems the IOW (and possibly Mildenhall too), fall between the two levels and it's clear there aren't enough other stand-alone clubs left for a league at their ideal level. (in fact have there ever been?)..  I think on this occasion the right decision has prevailed...Winning the 3rd division should not be the priority of any of the competing teams...it should be about development..

Or maybe they just like the NL and Grass routes Speedway keeping wage demands in check and taking riders from MFS into league racing and seeing them spread into senior leagues. It’s not all about Finance for everyone, for some ‘ethos’ is just as important. 

[Islander15]

24 minutes ago, szkocjasid said:

I don't think this would work at all, in 2019 there were 15 riders on 8+ averages & another 4 on 7+. I can't see the Championship clubs bringing on 19 new riders each season, so all that would happen is promising riders being lost to the sport!

That is exactly why the problem is not just isolated to the NL!

There needs to be a proper facilitation of British riders across all leagues that goes much further than the Rising Star programme. All that has done is push out other Brits like Mountain & Sarjeant and give Premiership places to riders not ready yet like Kinsley & arguably Palin. Whereas lowly assessed and unproven foreigners are still prevalent. In years gone by we've seen numerous NL heat leaders struggle to get Championship places or getting dumped at the earliest opportunity. There are persistent riders still about like Greaves and Hume (hopefully the Rising Star programme helps Danyon but what about when he averages 4.5+?) which I have admiration for, but too many others have been lost to the sport. 

[topsoil]

28 minutes ago, barrybishop said:

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for your comments and posts which I appreciate and read with great interest.

I would like to say that in order to have a virtually amateur 3rd tier of speedway it needs to be either funded by the governing body or the governing body wave all its charges. The issue to put on any speedway meeting under the BSPL is that it is now a business and as a business it has have revenue and directors must act in the best interest of that business. How does the BSPL raise revenue? Through match fees, sales of rights (TV) and sponsorship.

What do clubs have to pay excluding travel and riders points money and assume that all staff volunteer.... well BSPA Fees, SC license fees, Referee Fees, Insurance, Fixed insurance, Medical ambulance, Medical Paramedic plus advertising budget, program and so on.... so with everything before the plus.. for the IOW to stage speedway it is £1325.... oh then there is stadium rental on top of that too and this is before we can advertise, pay a rider home and away........

So let's look at the options for NL in my view to make it work.

1. Purely amateur (no paid riders as in motocross) and BSPL use money from TV deals to cover all costs associated with putting the meeting on. Entry for fans for say £5 and perhaps cover the clubs stadium rental.

2. Purely amateur and riders pay to enter (to cover costs would mean each rider for a 7 rider team had to pay £94.60 home and away) and the club is responsible for all costs which then raises some revenue for BSPL - Entry for fans for say £5 and perhaps cover the clubs stadium rental.

3. Structured pay scales, proper sellable product, with fans prepared to be entertained, a real structure to move forward, step by step progress, a club to be proud of.

My personal view is the only one able to work is number 3... 1 and 2 will always be seen as an overhead and the same as the current push toward second teams in double headers. My fear is that 7 riders teams will be reduced to 5, then 4 and guess what we are back 20 years but without riders and promoters who want to support it.

As for Buxton being drawn back in to the league... the opportunity is there but not taken, and I understand will not be either.

As always keep safe and stay positive.

All the best

Barry 

Isn't this what is now in place at Berwick, Edinburgh and Newcastle, where riders can move up from 125cc in the NJL all the way to the Championship? And to a certain extent with Kent, Eastbourne and Leicester, although I'm not sure how things stand with the SJL / MJL.

[Halifaxtiger]

14 hours ago, Mike.Butler said:

I regret that the iow aren't running; but unless a club can run at a professional level (i.e championship), then they ride in a 3rd tier that should definitely in my opinion be a division that the likes of Buxton can be competitive in. I said a few years back that the national DEVELOPMENT league has been hi-jacked by dropping down clubs who were paying riders more money than should have been allowed at that level. Hence we lost stalwarts Buxton after years of struggle.

It seems the IOW (and possibly Mildenhall too), fall between the two levels and it's clear there aren't enough other stand-alone clubs left for a league at their ideal level. (in fact have there ever been?)..  I think on this occasion the right decision has prevailed...Winning the 3rd division should not be the priority of any of the competing teams...it should be about development..

I don't totally agree and would argue that as a result of reducing standards we have lost Isle of Wight (and that loss should not be underestimated).  In addition, I am of the opinion that there were other reasons for Buxton finishing - not least that Sheffield were to ride on the same day. 

To me, its a matter of compromise (and indeed always has been). The double up clubs - particularly if they run double headers - want the league for development without the same need to attract paying fans. The stand alone teams still have an interest in development but need to make the product good enough to pull customers in. The NDL has, for years, achieved such a compromise but that has been torpedoed for 2021 by the BSPL imposing a points limit without any discussion or negotiation - its a been a case of take it or leave it. In my view - and I suspect in Barry Bishop's - that is what is most unacceptable. 

There seems to me a slight contradiction in what you are saying, too. You indicate that the league should permit a competitive Buxton to join, but then go on to state that winning the league - ie being competitive - should not be a priority.  I'd point out that the latter view does not seem to be shared by double up club promoters, given that the NDL has been won for 2 out of the last 3 seasons by their teams.

The way I see it, if the league is about development and not competition there is no need to reduce the points limit at all. Retaining 39 does not prevent the double up teams from putting out their developing riders, but it means that the product - and hence the ability to pull in customer   - is not weakened for both Mildenhall and Isle of Wight.

On a final note - and as I have said before - it is nonsense to suggest or even imply  that the NDL has not performed its development function in the past. Every single British rider in Championship and Premiership teams started in the third tier, as did our GP representatives Tai Woffinden and Robert Lambert.