Whats actually going on?

[Sings4Speedway]

4 minutes ago, topsoil said:

I don't understand the school sports day analogy. Only riders deemed good enough by the Championship / Premiership teams will get chosen to ride in those leagues and your average will only go up if you score enough points. Don't know where your all inclusive idea comes in.

I wont go into the full maths of it but any league with team building under 42.5 will see natural increases in averages,  building further below accelerates this. 

This years NDL has many riders that have been on the outside for a while but now as the team building numbers are low many on a 3 point average who have been often overlooked are now welcomed in. Now there could be a couple who grow and become surprise packages but many are now just competing with others at a lower level. In a couple of years the pickings for CL and PL teams will be slimmer, dads army teams more common and the sport in even more bother as a whole.

[TMW]

1 hour ago, topsoil said:

Isn't that called progression? It's what this league is supposed to be all about, a conveyor belt into the championship, the premiership.

No problem there at all where the waters start to muddy is Charging for it. What being described I’d 2nd half development  

[old bob at herne bay]

38 minutes ago, Sings4Speedway said:

I wont go into the full maths of it but any league with team building under 42.5 will see natural increases in averages,  building further below accelerates this. 

This years NDL has many riders that have been on the outside for a while but now as the team building numbers are low many on a 3 point average who have been often overlooked are now welcomed in. Now there could be a couple who grow and become surprise packages but many are now just competing with others at a lower level. In a couple of years the pickings for CL and PL teams will be slimmer, dads army teams more common and the sport in even more bother as a whole.

Nail hit firmly on the head there Sings4Speedway.

With all training schools (and that's what they are trying to run in the the NDL)  there has to be some who fail their training and allow new trainees into the school. Trouble is BSPL thaink that the more "track time"  every rider gets will make them all champions. The fact they we are being asked to pay £15 to watch the training still wrankles. 

 

[topsoil]

39 minutes ago, old bob at herne bay said:

Nail hit firmly on the head there Sings4Speedway.

With all training schools (and that's what they are trying to run in the the NDL)  there has to be some who fail their training and allow new trainees into the school. Trouble is BSPL thaink that the more "track time"  every rider gets will make them all champions. The fact they we are being asked to pay £15 to watch the training still wrankles. 

 

Who is charging £15 for the national league?

[Fozzie4388]

6 minutes ago, topsoil said:

Who is charging £15 for the national league?

Kent

[topsoil]

2 hours ago, TMW said:

No problem there at all where the waters start to muddy is Charging for it. What being described I’d 2nd half development  

The standard is a lot better than 2nd half development

[topsoil]

1 hour ago, Fozzie4388 said:

Kent

Fair play that is excessive. I know the tracks up here are nowhere near that.

[Halifaxtiger]

9 hours ago, topsoil said:

The standard is a lot better than 2nd half development

I'd say your probably right on that. Dropping from 39 to 35 means replacing a 7pt rider (who has probably been in the NL for some time) for a 3pt one and, on the face of it, its not a huge change. What I would say on the lower limit is that it is not sustainable. We have seen this season that clubs have had to scour the ranks of retired and semi retired riders on low averages to make teams up (and leaving themselves very low on replacements should injuries happen); that will only get worse in 2022 with the possibility that some deserving riders are frozen out.

I'd also accept the point that lowering the points limit doesn't necessarily mean a drop in what happens out on the track. If it did, then NL speedway would be massively inferior to PL speedway, and it isn't. 

The problem - and I have mentioned this before - is one of perception rather than reality. People equate a lower points limit with a drop in standards (both in performer and racing) and hence they are less likely to attend. The huge amount of criticism levelled at the upper leagues in the past is evidence of that and there's little doubt that people have walked away because of it. Its why when Scunthorpe ran a very weak NL side a few seasons ago  every meeting was tied to a Championship one, because there was a recognition that people wouldn't pay to watch the NL team alone. (staying to watch an NL meeting after a CL one is one thing; paying to watch NL only is very different and Isle of Wight do not have the former option).

Martin Widman has made it absolutely clear that the problem is not about the points limit but about the way it was introduced, and its very hard to disagree with his view (particularly if you stand in his shoes). I think it is indefensible that a team is not consulted about the way their league regulations are to be decided, particularly when that is determined by others who have no involvement in that league whatsoever and, as Martin has also made clear, there is absolutely no evidence that that will change in the future.

For that reason, the decision Isle of Wight made is not only understandable, its justifiable. What is not so are the BSPL's attempts to prevent them running at all. 

[gazzac]

2 hours ago, Halifaxtiger said:

 

For that reason, the decision Isle of Wight made is not only understandable, its justifiable. What is not so are the BSPL's attempts to prevent them running at all. 

They're frightened the IOW will be a success and others will follow I imagine is part of it.

[Halifaxtiger]

44 minutes ago, gazzac said:

They're frightened the IOW will be a success and others will follow I imagine is part of it.

I think you are dead right. I also think they have good reason to be frightened.

With the prospect of a good summer. huge numbers of staycations, the Isle of Wight"s superbly customer focussed promotion and their plans for Speedway to be only part of the entertainment on race nights, the BSPL should be scared.

Edited June 8, 2021 by Halifaxtiger

[barrybishop]

This is a very challenging time for Martin, myself and everyone associated in one way or another with the Isle of Wight, and personally I am close to saying it's enough now. All we wanted to do was put on a viable speedway product, the BSPL emposed rules upon us giving an yes/no ultimatum to join the league in 2021. That means, no discussion, nor any prospect of allowing discussion in future years. While we did not agree with the points limit we were not allowed to discuss it - its this or nothing.... We are told that every promoter in the sport wanted it... yet I can name at least 6 who we deal with regularly who will say no such discussion has happened and even if it did, why are their views more important than ours for our league, our business. Of course it is not, but they didnt view it like this.

Even to today.... Martin and I have received no communication from any member of the board of BSPL other than the office manager during the time that we wanted to leave. There was no "please come to the office or take a zoom call and lets discuss it", there was nothing... Yes - no, in or out... and like this for years to come.

Now we are left in a situation where it is OK for BSPL clubs just to hire and fire riders at will, nomadic club names can used in amatuer events that bring in private hire revenue but cannot be used in amatuer second halves, and rising stars who are supposed to be protected clearly are not. And.... all the time the Isle of Wight has the ability to give these riders more rides, in a safe, relaxed, entertaining environment, and yet ultimately because we did not agree to not having a say in how our league is run while others who have no vested interest in it can, and without a prospect of this changing, rider will have the fear of sanctions for themselves or their BSPL club's and the only people who will miss out are the fans, volunteers, sponsors and riders of our sport. 

Believe me, while working full time too, running a speedway club is no pleasure ride, there are so many challenges, so much that you will never see or hear of that just makes us all want to stop it. But we love it...nothing gives us more pride when people have really enjoyed the show, or a young rider who we help scores well, or a rider from MFS becomes a mascot, MDSL rider, and so on... but the personal toll that we have to endure and now this increased toll.... its just heartbreaking.

Enjjoy your speedway everyone wherever you view it... every club will need you all and all your positivity this and the coming years.... oh and BTW my smiling/laughing face earlier on a previous comment was only because even now people still think the reason Martin and I left was over the points limit, it totally was not... it was over how we were treated (and continue to be) by the BSPL.

All the best.............

Edited June 8, 2021 by barrybishop
typo

[Hawk127]

Barry, thanks for the update. You have an lot of support on here and fans far and wide and it is understandable why you may want to throw in the towel but don’t let these selfish morons get the better of you and the club. Petty minded individuals hiding behind corporate BSPL none of whom have the balls to come on here or any other medium to rationally explain their stance. If genuine speedway fans can do anything to support your cause, let us all know as many really do believe in the two of you and the club. You have the vision so don’t give up, you will find a way.

[Great Central]

1 hour ago, barrybishop said:

This is a very challenging time for Martin, myself and everyone associated in one way or another with the Isle of Wight, and personally I am close to saying it's enough now. All we wanted to do was put on a viable speedway product, the BSPL emposed rules upon us giving an yes/no ultimatum to join the league in 2021. That means, no discussion, nor any prospect of allowing discussion in future years. While we did not agree with the points limit we were not allowed to discuss it - its this or nothing.... We are told that every promoter in the sport wanted it... yet I can name at least 6 who we deal with regularly who will say no such discussion has happened and even if it did, why is their views more important than ours for our league, our business. Of course it is not, but they didnt view it like this.

Even to today.... Martin and I have received no communication from any member of the board of BSPL other than the office manager during the time that we wanted to leave. There was no "please come to the office or take a zoom call and lets discuss it", there was nothing... Yes - no, in or out... and like this for years to come.

Now we are left in a situation where it is OK for BSPL clubs just to hire and fire riders at will, nomadic club names can used in amateur events that bring in private hire revenue but cannot be used in amateur second halves, and rising stars who are supposed to be protected clearly are not. And.... all the time the Isle of Wight has the ability to give these riders more rides, in a safe, relaxed, entertaining environment, and yet ultimately because we did not agree to not having a say in how our league is run while others who have no vested interest in it can, and without a prospect of this changing, rider will have the fear of sanctions for themselves or their BSPL club's and the only people who will miss out are the fans, volunteers, sponsors and riders of our sport. 

Believe me, while working full time too, running a speedway club is no pleasure ride, there are so many challenges, so much that you will never see or hear of that just makes us all want to stop it. But we love it...nothing gives us more pride when people have really enjoyed the show, or a young rider who we help scores well, or a rider from MFS becomes a mascot, MDSL rider, and so on... but the personal toll that we have to endure and now this increased toll.... its just heartbreaking.

Enjoy your speedway everyone wherever you view it... every club will need you all and all your positivity this and the coming years.... oh and BTW my smiling/laughing face earlier on a previous comment was only because even now people still think the reason Martin and I left was over the points limit, it totally was not... it was over how we were treated (and continue to be) by the BSPL.

All the best.............

Well said Barry. I certainly couldn't have put it better myself. There are still so many people out there who still think that we withdrew from the BSPL because of the points limit and that just isn't true. The BSPL will continue to say that all clubs voted in the new points limit, but that is not what we have in black and white from the BSPL, and even if they did, how were they allowed to vote when the two most affected clubs, weren't even allowed to discuss the matter. It was our choice to try and run speedway on the island and doing it from our homes just adds to our problems but our business that we have worked bloody hard to build up with great support from businesses and supporters on the island(and off it), cannot operate under rules dictated by clubs who have no financial liability towards us. 

Martin Widman

[heathen52]

Im sorry to see the comments of "Being close to saying its enough" what will the BSPL gain from another Club closing? albeit that they are no longer members of the dictators Club, only today CVS has said they may have to consider closing due to outside decisions, yet here we have a Track wanting to continue yet the BSPL continue to put obstacles in there way Rob Godfrey in his position as Chairman of the BSPL should be encouraging the IOW to stage Speedway, never mind they can continue staging amateur meetings up at Scunthorpe because there may soon not be enough Speedway Teams to stage meaningful League meetings against, is that what Godfrey & Co really want ?.

[gazzac]

An amazing amount of likes and thanks, certainly confirms who the majority who care think who is right and who is wrong.

Doesn't really help Barry and Martin, but at least it must be a bit rewarding knowing most think they are morally right in their stance.

Edited June 10, 2021 by gazzac

[barrybishop]

11 minutes ago, heathen52 said:

Im sorry to see the comments of "Being close to saying its enough" what will the BSPL gain from another Club closing? albeit that they are no longer members of the dictators Club, only today CVS has said they may have to consider closing due to outside decisions, yet here we have a Track wanting to continue yet the BSPL continue to put obstacles in there way Rob Godfrey in his position as Chairman of the BSPL should be encouraging the IOW to stage Speedway, never mind they can continue staging amateur meetings up at Scunthorpe because there may soon not be enough Speedway Teams to stage meaningful League meetings against, is that what Godfrey & Co really want ?.

I believe you may well have the answer in the last sentence.

[Ringitsneck]

Whilst I do believe the current regime are failing to lead the sport in the right direction to say they want to turn it fully amateur is just completely wrong. I get that you have understandable issues with the top table but they are in it because they love the sport and hope to make a few Bob, but I doubt they do make much and so why kill the golden goose ? for want of a better term.

I can foresee a crisis coming but perhaps that’s what we need so it can be rebuilt a new, hopefully !

 

[old bob at herne bay]

Sorry " Ringitsneck", but history has shown that UK speedway administrators have repeatedly failed to change the sport to attract and entertain new spectators to the sport, failed to attract new investment into the sport and failed to provide a fair, transparent and democratic leadership structure.  Any attempts of new ideas brought in by "others" have  always been debunked. They are still marketing the same old 15 heat  4 laps a race clutch start  7 man team format for every meeting , all riders messing around endlessly before every heat. TIRED is one word that sums up the entertainment offer. 

They have sensibly made their group a Limited company, in anticipation of the day when they have to wind up.

You would have thought that the admin. would bend over backwards to ensure as many clubs line up to tapes every season ...... but we see a steady loss of venues and the remaining "clique"  of promoters just shrug their shoulders.  Will the Premier League complete the 2021 season ? We started with only 6 and might only have 5. 

 The lack of action on the top table to promote and market the sport in the UK is reprehensible. 

Speedway will survive IMO, but run by a disparate group of  promoters who will rent a venue on an occasional basis for individual invitation meetings, with token prize money offered (just like UK grasstrack).  This perhaps is not dissimilar to the ideas of the IoW promotion ....  but this is where the sport is heading, and what the public will pay to watch in numbers.

People want an afternoon/evening out, to be entertained, with plenty of track action, and not be be subjected to 15 drawn out heats of tyre warming , 2 minute warnings, separated every 3/4 heats by tractor racing.

 

 

[TMW]

2 minutes ago, old bob at herne bay said:

Sorry " Ringitsneck", but history has shown that UK speedway administrators have repeatedly failed to change the sport to attract and entertain new spectators to the sport, failed to attract new investment into the sport and failed to provide a fair, transparent and democratic leadership structure.  Any attempts of new ideas brought in by "others" have  always been debunked. They are still marketing the same old 15 heat  4 laps a race clutch start  7 man team format for every meeting , all riders messing around endlessly before every heat. TIRED is one word that sums up the entertainment offer. 

They have sensibly made their group a Limited company, in anticipation of the day when they have to wind up.

You would have thought that the admin. would bend over backwards to ensure as many clubs line up to tapes every season ...... but we see a steady loss of venues and the remaining "clique"  of promoters just shrug their shoulders.  Will the Premier League complete the 2021 season ? We started with only 6 and might only have 5. 

 The lack of action on the top table to promote and market the sport in the UK is reprehensible. 

Speedway will survive IMO, but run by a disparate group of  promoters who will rent a venue on an occasional basis for individual invitation meetings, with token prize money offered (just like UK grasstrack).  This perhaps is not dissimilar to the ideas of the IoW promotion ....  but this is where the sport is heading, and what the public will pay to watch in numbers.

People want an afternoon/evening out, to be entertained, with plenty of track action, and not be be subjected to 15 drawn out heats of tyre warming , 2 minute warnings, separated every 3/4 heats by tractor racing.

 

 

I’m not his biggest fan but I must admit all the issues that Buster had during his tenure he seem to manage to solve by talking ! So far, I believe he’s ignored every request to talk since March. My way or the highway ! 

[Halifaxtiger]

2 hours ago, Ringitsneck said:

Whilst I do believe the current regime are failing to lead the sport in the right direction to say they want to turn it fully amateur is just completely wrong. I get that you have understandable issues with the top table but they are in it because they love the sport and hope to make a few Bob, but I doubt they do make much and so why kill the golden goose ? for want of a better term.

I can foresee a crisis coming but perhaps that’s what we need so it can be rebuilt a new, hopefully !

 

On their terms.

Had they acted with due process and in the best interests of the sport rather than pure selfishness, this situation almost certainly would not have occurred.