mikebv Posted March 27, 2021 Report Share Posted March 27, 2021 1 hour ago, Tsunami said: The SKY money we received was quickly consumed by greedy and demanding top riders headed by the Yanks. It was never available to expand the facilities and the sport. Wasn't it part of the contract that Sky demanded that the "top riders" had to ride over here? Speaking to one now ex promoter at the time, a rather large portion of the "Sky money" pretty much got swallowed up by his "World Class" top rider.. So much money dripped through so many fingers, with the end result? The World Class riders 'effed off' to more lucrative pastures new, and the huge Sky investment left zero legacy for the sport from which to grow.. Amazingly ludicrous really.... 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted March 28, 2021 Report Share Posted March 28, 2021 15 hours ago, mikebv said: Wasn't it part of the contract that Sky demanded that the "top riders" had to ride over here? Speaking to one now ex promoter at the time, a rather large portion of the "Sky money" pretty much got swallowed up by his "World Class" top rider.. So much money dripped through so many fingers, with the end result? The World Class riders 'effed off' to more lucrative pastures new, and the huge Sky investment left zero legacy for the sport from which to grow.. Amazingly ludicrous really.... I think you're right. But being uncharacteristically cynical I can't help but wonder how many people on the terraces at the time would have preferred 'world class' riders to putting money aside for development Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enotian Posted March 28, 2021 Report Share Posted March 28, 2021 10 minutes ago, Halifaxtiger said: I think you're right. But being uncharacteristically cynical I can't help but wonder how many people on the terraces at the time would have preferred 'world class' riders to putting money aside for development exactly. who ever got excited about a healthy balance sheet. the trick is being able to do both. it's the failing of the competitive sporting environment where contracts are negotiated annually and top men are a scare resource with a format where you can't win without one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dodds Posted March 30, 2021 Report Share Posted March 30, 2021 On 3/28/2021 at 1:45 PM, enotian said: exactly. who ever got excited about a healthy balance sheet. the trick is being able to do both. it's the failing of the competitive sporting environment where contracts are negotiated annually and top men are a scare resource with a format where you can't win without one. to be fair football, rugby and cricket have all had huge injections of TV money annually for decades and despite literally getting millions of pounds per match virtually all of their clubs and counties are financial basket cases. Speedway was small fry and quickly hoovered up by the "stars". What it did do was develop a culture of watching speedway from the sofa for hundreds who realised that £15 a month would give you Sky Sports while a night at the track cost £25+ (at the time) each trip to watch the action live at the track. The winners were satellite TV sports channels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityrebel Posted March 30, 2021 Report Share Posted March 30, 2021 12 hours ago, George Dodds said: to be fair football, rugby and cricket have all had huge injections of TV money annually for decades and despite literally getting millions of pounds per match virtually all of their clubs and counties are financial basket cases. Speedway was small fry and quickly hoovered up by the "stars". What it did do was develop a culture of watching speedway from the sofa for hundreds who realised that £15 a month would give you Sky Sports while a night at the track cost £25+ (at the time) each trip to watch the action live at the track. The winners were satellite TV sports channels. The task in getting the couch potatoes back through the turnstiles, is virtually impossible. That ship sailed many years ago. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dodds Posted March 31, 2021 Report Share Posted March 31, 2021 14 hours ago, cityrebel said: The task in getting the couch potatoes back through the turnstiles, is virtually impossible. That ship sailed many years ago. very true and really not even worth the bother, better to look for new audiences who don't come with the baggage of those who see the past as a land of milk and honey through their rosetinted spectacles. Trouble is you can't even get them to pay a decent amount for watching livestream. "I'll gladly pay a couple of quid ... but a fiver's too much". "How do I watch Premier Sports without paying a subscription". Won't contribute towards the sport but want it run to their specifications. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted March 31, 2021 Report Share Posted March 31, 2021 2 hours ago, George Dodds said: very true and really not even worth the bother, better to look for new audiences who don't come with the baggage of those who see the past as a land of milk and honey through their rosetinted spectacles. Trouble is you can't even get them to pay a decent amount for watching livestream. "I'll gladly pay a couple of quid ... but a fiver's too much". "How do I watch Premier Sports without paying a subscription". Won't contribute towards the sport but want it run to their specifications. Good Luck with the new audiences who don’t have rose tinted glasses.When will the penny drop that there are other activities on offer that provide better value for money outside the sport.The sport is not attracting new fans in numbers in the UK in the last 10-15 years.I certainly don’t know the answer to get them back, but certainly looks a long difficult task.I am still a regular attender but it’s more a social habit these days than the entertainment factor.Hopefully at Berwick the new track shape will help in the entertainment level.Money will get much tighter for a lot of people after this pandemic with possible job losses being a factor. It will be interesting whether the year out will rekindle the enthusiasm at the track and attract bigger numbers , time will tell. My one solution is that the sport has to take a step back to a Semi- Professional level regarding riders wages to cut the wages Bill to match crowd levels.It certainly won’t effect the entertainment level IMO. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityrebel Posted March 31, 2021 Report Share Posted March 31, 2021 I think the promoters are praying for a boom period after the pandemic, but it could easily go the other way. I'm hoping that grassroots football gets the nod on April 12th and speedway on May 17th. I'm getting fed up with this lark now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old bob at herne bay Posted March 31, 2021 Report Share Posted March 31, 2021 Just to add to the "fromafar" post .... my last regular attendance was at Lakeside as a social habit with a small group of regular attendees. All had been supporting speedway for 50 years plus. Has to be said that what turned out to be the last season at Lakeside the endless delays to the meetings, the petty antics of riders on the start line made watching 15 heats of speedway a test of endurance on the cold and draughty grass/mud banks in the Spartan facilities at Lakeside. For the first time in over 50 years I found myself leaving the track before the end of the meeting. I knew then it was time to hang up my programme board/ gas rattle. It's so much more comfortable watching the delays and hold ups from your sofa with a beer , and you can record it all and fast forward 50% of the stuff with practice starts/gardening and air fence repairs. Will I go back again? Maybe only for selected meetings to see Jason Crump. I will put up with the delays and gardening to see him one more time. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enotian Posted March 31, 2021 Report Share Posted March 31, 2021 On 3/30/2021 at 9:26 AM, George Dodds said: to be fair football, rugby and cricket have all had huge injections of TV money annually for decades and despite literally getting millions of pounds per match virtually all of their clubs and counties are financial basket cases. Speedway was small fry and quickly hoovered up by the "stars". What it did do was develop a culture of watching speedway from the sofa for hundreds who realised that £15 a month would give you Sky Sports while a night at the track cost £25+ (at the time) each trip to watch the action live at the track. The winners were satellite TV sports channels. I don't disagree. All sports suffer from the competitive nature in which the most talented purveyors can place demands for their services. Perhaps in speedway (athough the £ signs are smaller) the pool of top level talent is more limited, which magnifies the problem. I also think that you might be right about the culture of watching from the sofa. But I don't think this extends to other sports. I imagine crowd levels at Football, Rugby and (limited overs and test) cricket were higher after satellite TV took over the coverage. I've always found physically attending sports events far more preferable than watching from home but what is the obvious difference between other sports on TV and speedway which has meant attendances have increased elsewhere but decreased for speedway meetings? I think there's a follow the herd culture and if you watch an event in which there are full stadiums of people visibly enjoying themselves you'd be more inclined to think 'I wish I was there'. Cut to coverage of league speedway........ not a lot there to convince the herd mentality to follow suit. Maybe league coverage isn't the way forward? Maybe speedway on TV should be more limited to bigger events which can attract bigger crowds and perhaps have a bigger production budget. How about trying to sell a Speedway Festival to broadcasters. Package up all the grand finals into a week long event during the summer, make it an occasion make those watching at home 'wish they were there'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dodds Posted March 31, 2021 Report Share Posted March 31, 2021 56 minutes ago, enotian said: I don't disagree. All sports suffer from the competitive nature in which the most talented purveyors can place demands for their services. Perhaps in speedway (athough the £ signs are smaller) the pool of top level talent is more limited, which magnifies the problem. I also think that you might be right about the culture of watching from the sofa. But I don't think this extends to other sports. I imagine crowd levels at Football, Rugby and (limited overs and test) cricket were higher after satellite TV took over the coverage. I've always found physically attending sports events far more preferable than watching from home but what is the obvious difference between other sports on TV and speedway which has meant attendances have increased elsewhere but decreased for speedway meetings? I think there's a follow the herd culture and if you watch an event in which there are full stadiums of people visibly enjoying themselves you'd be more inclined to think 'I wish I was there'. Cut to coverage of league speedway........ not a lot there to convince the herd mentality to follow suit. Maybe league coverage isn't the way forward? Maybe speedway on TV should be more limited to bigger events which can attract bigger crowds and perhaps have a bigger production budget. How about trying to sell a Speedway Festival to broadcasters. Package up all the grand finals into a week long event during the summer, make it an occasion make those watching at home 'wish they were there'. Speedway also has its unique, self-inflicted problems. In no other sport could you have participants appearing for four of five different clubs in different countries in the same week. If you want to watch Phil Foden you either buy a ticket for a Man City or England game or settle down to watch him on the TV for one of those two teams. He won't also appear for Arsenal, Bayern Munich, Legia Warsaw and Paris St Germain over the next three days. That also means that the introduction of any form of pan-European tournament on the lines of the Champions League or European Rugby Cup is off the table. It even prevents a meaningful Inter-League cup. Arguably it also affects the pulling power of individual meetings. It is difficult to build the narrative of something/someone unique happening at your local track when they could appear multiple times somewhere else in Europe, on your TV within the next few hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted March 31, 2021 Report Share Posted March 31, 2021 1 hour ago, enotian said: I don't disagree. All sports suffer from the competitive nature in which the most talented purveyors can place demands for their services. Perhaps in speedway (athough the £ signs are smaller) the pool of top level talent is more limited, which magnifies the problem. I also think that you might be right about the culture of watching from the sofa. But I don't think this extends to other sports. I imagine crowd levels at Football, Rugby and (limited overs and test) cricket were higher after satellite TV took over the coverage. I've always found physically attending sports events far more preferable than watching from home but what is the obvious difference between other sports on TV and speedway which has meant attendances have increased elsewhere but decreased for speedway meetings? I think there's a follow the herd culture and if you watch an event in which there are full stadiums of people visibly enjoying themselves you'd be more inclined to think 'I wish I was there'. Cut to coverage of league speedway........ not a lot there to convince the herd mentality to follow suit. Maybe league coverage isn't the way forward? Maybe speedway on TV should be more limited to bigger events which can attract bigger crowds and perhaps have a bigger production budget. How about trying to sell a Speedway Festival to broadcasters. Package up all the grand finals into a week long event during the summer, make it an occasion make those watching at home 'wish they were there'. When Speedway was "booming" in the 70's, it was invariably only individual and world team/pairs events that got shown nationally. . The regional ITV stations were the ones that showed 'team racing' with it only being syndicated to the home teams' area, (or sometimes both home and away teams' areas)... That national TV coverage being beamed into literally millions of households several times a month during the summer had a huge positive knock on impact to domestic Speedway... You could watch Peter Collins beat the world from the back just after 3pm on a Saturday, have your tea, then go and watch him do it live that evening... People are invariably sheep like in their decisions as to what is 'cool'... Which is why it's always baffled me why the BSPL allow matches to be shown live in front of "one (old) man and his (nearly as old), dog".... A two hour advert which will get shown several times more.... Crackers... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post cityrebel Posted March 31, 2021 Popular Post Report Share Posted March 31, 2021 The delays are a killer for speedway. Meetings that start late, excessive tractor grading, double R/R, the list goes on. Most sports, with the exception of cricket run like clockwork. A slicker show would definitely encourage more people to go, but the majority of promoters don't see it. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enotian Posted March 31, 2021 Report Share Posted March 31, 2021 23 minutes ago, George Dodds said: Speedway also has its unique, self-inflicted problems. In no other sport could you have participants appearing for four of five different clubs in different countries in the same week. If you want to watch Phil Foden you either buy a ticket for a Man City or England game or settle down to watch him on the TV for one of those two teams. He won't also appear for Arsenal, Bayern Munich, Legia Warsaw and Paris St Germain over the next three days. That also means that the introduction of any form of pan-European tournament on the lines of the Champions League or European Rugby Cup is off the table. It even prevents a meaningful Inter-League cup. Arguably it also affects the pulling power of individual meetings. It is difficult to build the narrative of something/someone unique happening at your local track when they could appear multiple times somewhere else in Europe, on your TV within the next few hours. Whilst again I don't disagree I think it's becoming more common place. If you look at cricket someone like Jos Buttler will be able to name a half dozen teams he plays for in different competitions around the world. But he's entertainment and the competitions are viewed as distinct separate brands that mostly don't run concurrently. So he's in the Big Bash for a month, then at the IPL for another month, the Hundred at another point and domestic T20 some other time. Whilst the big names are a massive part of these competitions it's also the experience which is being sold. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted April 1, 2021 Report Share Posted April 1, 2021 19 hours ago, enotian said: Whilst again I don't disagree I think it's becoming more common place. If you look at cricket someone like Jos Buttler will be able to name a half dozen teams he plays for in different competitions around the world. But he's entertainment and the competitions are viewed as distinct separate brands that mostly don't run concurrently. So he's in the Big Bash for a month, then at the IPL for another month, the Hundred at another point and domestic T20 some other time. Whilst the big names are a massive part of these competitions it's also the experience which is being sold. Rugby Union and Cricket run their leagues with the best players expected to be missing for a good portion of the season.. What they both have going for them though is the fact that internationally both sports have done "pretty well" over the past couple of decades which then allows their domestic games to feed off their success.. And media coverage and sponsorship filter down to their level too... A very successful "Great Britain" in Speedway is really the only way the sport domestically will get interest and prosper again.. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickthemuppet Posted April 1, 2021 Report Share Posted April 1, 2021 All sports have had a decline in attendances including football, due to television and especially Sky as one of the most importance things that changed this is it is shown live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.D Posted April 1, 2021 Report Share Posted April 1, 2021 4 hours ago, mikebv said: Rugby Union and Cricket run their leagues with the best players expected to be missing for a good portion of the season.. What they both have going for them though is the fact that internationally both sports have done "pretty well" over the past couple of decades which then allows their domestic games to feed off their success.. And media coverage and sponsorship filter down to their level too... A very successful "Great Britain" in Speedway is really the only way the sport domestically will get interest and prosper again.. I agree with this to an extent, the only way we will get main stream media coverage in this country is with either a winning international team or individual. Tai had some good exposure on TV and media like Talk sport but the problem now is if we do well at international level, neither Tai or Lambert race in the UK so punters can't go and watch them live in this country. If we can get exposure with our top stars we can hardly promote them with a "riding this week at insert club here" as they won't be riding here anytime soon.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted April 1, 2021 Report Share Posted April 1, 2021 3 minutes ago, M.D said: I agree with this to an extent, the only way we will get main stream media coverage in this country is with either a winning international team or individual. Tai had some good exposure on TV and media like Talk sport but the problem now is if we do well at international level, neither Tai or Lambert race in the UK so punters can't go and watch them live in this country. If we can get exposure with our top stars we can hardly promote them with a "riding this week at insert club here" as they won't be riding here anytime soon.. I think it will need that virtuous circle of more publicity, meaning more fans, meaning more large sponsors, meaning more money to spend, meaning more high profile riders coming back, meaning more publicity, etc etc... A long way off but that surely has to be the overall master plan going forward hasn't it? Or maybe every track getting a 100 or so more a night which delivers in lots of places double digit % growth, will be seen as a measure of success, and therefore means everything is rosy and the sport is booming again...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.D Posted April 1, 2021 Report Share Posted April 1, 2021 5 minutes ago, mikebv said: I think it will need that virtuous circle of more publicity, meaning more fans, meaning more large sponsors, meaning more money to spend, meaning more high profile riders coming back, meaning more publicity, etc etc... A long way off but that surely has to be the overall master plan going forward hasn't it? Or maybe every track getting a 100 or so more a night which delivers in lots of places double digit % growth, will be seen as a measure of success, and therefore means everything is rosy and the sport is booming again...? I think we won't see high level exposure from the media for the sport for a while. Clubs need to promote the sport more in their own back yard first before the bigger picture of national exposure can be achieved. I know its my club but Eastbourne are doing things the right way and moving forward, they are doing a lot of work in various areas, some with success some with none but they are trying very hard to promote the club and sport. Difficult but I know the numbers for advanced tickets for the first two meetings are very encouraging with a lot of lost fans returning and thats a start.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrybishop Posted June 3, 2021 Report Share Posted June 3, 2021 WIGHTLINK WARRIORS SUMMER SPECTACULARS AT RISK After the incredible support shown to the Wightlink Warriors following their withdrawal from speedway's National League (NL), news that the plans for the summer spectacular of racing are at risk will come as a huge blow to many fans across the UK, and especially our loyal fans and supporters on the Isle of Wight. The reason is not Covid this time, or a lack of interest, but it's a lack of suitable riders who are concerned at the threat of possible sanctions. Warriors Co-owner Barry Bishop explained, "After the news that the Directors of the British Speedway Promoters would allow amateur status riders to come to the Isle of Wight to participate in our events, everyone associated with the club was delighted, and the feedback from the public was that it was a great move for the sport and rider development. With riders literally chomping at the bit to ride on the Island to improve their skills, get more track time and competitive racing under their belts, we now find that the BSPL appear to view the NL riders contractually in the same way as Premiership and Championship riders even though NL riders are classed as amateur and not professional, with clubs stopping riders from coming to the Island. If you recall, we were delighted that a way forward with the BSPL was found as the NL has always been presented as amateur with riders being paid effectively expenses but this, we are told now is not the case and NL riders have the same professional status as Premier and Championship riders. To be honest the threats being made to some riders should they come to the Island are really very sad to see ranging from receiving bans or fines for stepping into the stadium (to support us) to participating in a meeting that "could lead to a ban or a fine" - and even practising at Smallbrook could incur the same measures being imposed which is in complete contradiction to what the regulating body have told us. Only yesterday, another new reason for refusing permission to ride emerged when the charging of entrance fees and payment of riders became an issue. With full medical cover and ferry costs to meet, along with all the other costs of a stadium, why wouldn't we charge spectators to watch an evening of entertainment? The future now is unclear with riders being prevented from racing by rules that the BSPL clubs and riders do not appear to be aware of - there is no defined statement. The Warriors are being prevented from entertaining our fans which will include some of the expected large number of holidaymakers this year, and our sport overall goes a little further downhill. In an ideal world, there needs to be a public statement from the Speedway Control Bureau (SCB)/BSPL immediately telling riders what the rule is with regards to coming to the island as even non contracted riders are hesitating about coming over. All BSPL riders are self-employed and permission from their promoters to do other events may not be unreasonably withheld and coming to the island would be in our view be no different than participating in a grass track, road race, motocross, banger racing, international events and other Nora events. It should not be the case of you can only do one or the other as riders are being told. With the recent dreadful news of Somerset closing, we cannot understand why the BSPL would want to prevent riders racing, fans being entertained, sponsors being advertised, and another club prosper/saved. Perhaps it is the opposite they wish for? We would like to say that we are happy to meet with the BSPL to discuss things; we have spoken to the SCB and Auto Cycle Union already. However, we are continuing to work on our options and are in constant dialogue with the teams that have committed to support us in Challenge matches and who in our view are vital to the future of the sport, and an update will be issued as soon as more information is available and a revised start date”. 3 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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