The government’s plan: after “the Great Reset,” Speedway will NEVER return

[customhouseregular]

13 minutes ago, Blupanther said:

Now then, enough of that sort of thing Steve... 

I wish I could see some action now!

[Grachan]

On 1/2/2021 at 2:24 PM, John Scrutton said:

• Lets go back to Speedway which the casual watcher can understand (and also some supporters)       LETS HAVE

ONLY 3 POINTS For a win   2 for 2nd  1 for third         No B/W    or  TAC subs    in ALL meetings

THE GRAND PRIX      only the 5 rides to count  to the total at the end.

WORLD TEAM CUP    Only the total points scored for each team after the lasft meeting     No  4  3  2   points

CHAMPIONSHIP POINTS  only then top scorer      only run-off if 2nd or 3rd  needed.

THE LEAGUE CHAMPIONS     who ever finishing top.

FALSE STARTS   ALL BACK TO START    No stopping at pits    (unless an injury etc)

CONCRETE OR TARMAC STARTING AREA    To cut out "gardening"

       This will never  happen    `mores the pity.

 

 

Nothing wrong with gardening if it within the 2 minutes. No worse than just sitting there waiting for the clock to count down. Why do people have such a problem with "gardening"? I don't get it.

[jenga]

in 2018 , workington were quite happy with ricky wells and his gardening .  wasted time trying to get the perfect furrow and ran out of time . excluded , dear o dear . cost the team the meeting and the chance to win something that year .

Edited January 8, 2021 by jenga

[GWC]

On 1/6/2021 at 2:17 PM, steve roberts said:

I wish I had seen some action during the sixties!

I started going in 69 so the 70’s were very good and following second division saw the rise of many riders who became stars. Supporters got to know riders much better than they do today and didn’t mind losing a rider if they saw him progress to the top league

[steve roberts]

1 hour ago, GWC said:

I started going in 69 so the 70’s were very good and following second division saw the rise of many riders who became stars. Supporters got to know riders much better than they do today and didn’t mind losing a rider if they saw him progress to the top league

Great days! Due to our promotional tie-up with both Eastbourne and Peterborough we at Oxford got to see many talented riders...not only in the main body of the team but during the very competitive second halves.

[Trees]

On 1/6/2021 at 8:47 AM, steve roberts said:

The advent of the Grand Prix put paid to that particular scenario.

Hmph yes ......

[steve roberts]

1 hour ago, Trees said:

Hmph yes ......

Saturday tracks in particular. Got to the stage that tracks were no longer operating on the key night of the week.

Edited January 14, 2021 by steve roberts

[OveFundinFan]

Surely there has to be a chance of British speedway tracks returning to a Saturday fixture day, now no international star rider will be riding in the Britain, the time has to be right. Any rider who does progress to the point he deems himself at the point he needs international experience to progress to “greatness” ,well, he will just have to leave Britain to make that progress. 
 It get Saturday racing back if that’s what the need is for British speedway to prosper again.  I always uses to go to BV on a Saturday, never been when it was a Friday.

[Steve0]

I used to love Swindon on a Saturday but the greyhounds put paid to that

[Pinny]

I entirely agree that the sport should be a weekend only event from now on. Friday night/Saturday and Sunday. If there are no riders who ride in Poland and over seas riding in the UK, it should not be an issue.

Fans, after a while, will forget the top stars being missing has watered down the league. There will always be a top dog. If that is someone like Daniel King, so be it. If he is the top rider in the league, fans will look forward to seeing him.

British Speedway desperately needs to start again from the bottom. If not, there is absolutely no hope at all.

One big league, only one competition (league). A riders championship at the end of the season with each teams top averaged rider. And maybe a pairs event. Just no tournament that requires qualification meetings as there will be way too many fixtures and fans get fed up of seeing the same team visit each season.

It has to be worth a try as absolutely nothing else has worked so far. No air fares, no prima donnas, no living expenses for foreign riders etc will mean clubs can charge a lot less for entry. Speedway, like it or not, is a ten quid sport.

There would obviously be way more planning involved than this but its the basics of a restructure plan that needs to be put in place. Two clubs have dropped out before the AGM outcome has been revealed, how many more are going to be announced as closing by the time the outcome of the AGM is known? Id guess at least one more. Probably more.

Youd think that half head Godfrey would be pushing things for the better to sort the sport out, I hear Scunthorpes crowds are low more often than not.

[Grachan]

30 minutes ago, Pinny said:

I entirely agree that the sport should be a weekend only event from now on. Friday night/Saturday and Sunday. If there are no riders who ride in Poland and over seas riding in the UK, it should not be an issue.

Fans, after a while, will forget the top stars being missing has watered down the league. There will always be a top dog. If that is someone like Daniel King, so be it. If he is the top rider in the league, fans will look forward to seeing him.

British Speedway desperately needs to start again from the bottom. If not, there is absolutely no hope at all.

One big league, only one competition (league). A riders championship at the end of the season with each teams top averaged rider. And maybe a pairs event. Just no tournament that requires qualification meetings as there will be way too many fixtures and fans get fed up of seeing the same team visit each season.

It has to be worth a try as absolutely nothing else has worked so far. No air fares, no prima donnas, no living expenses for foreign riders etc will mean clubs can charge a lot less for entry. Speedway, like it or not, is a ten quid sport.

There would obviously be way more planning involved than this but its the basics of a restructure plan that needs to be put in place. Two clubs have dropped out before the AGM outcome has been revealed, how many more are going to be announced as closing by the time the outcome of the AGM is known? Id guess at least one more. Probably more.

Youd think that half head Godfrey would be pushing things for the better to sort the sport out, I hear Scunthorpes crowds are low more often than not.

It's not just top riders who go to Poland though. Poland now is, basically, what the British League was in the 70s and 80s. Riders have to ride there to have a chance of making it.

What about riders such as Adam Ellis and Anders Rowe, who also want to ride in Poland to try and improve themselves. Shut out everyone with ambition and we'll end up with a league of novices and pot-bellied middle aged men that would be f little appeal to anyone.

I don't think the problem with speedway in this country is the day of the week it is ridden. It is that it has become a second rate version of the sport. Excluding any rider with any ambition will only add to that.

[steve roberts]

28 minutes ago, Grachan said:

It's not just top riders who go to Poland though. Poland now is, basically, what the British League was in the 70s and 80s. Riders have to ride there to have a chance of making it.

What about riders such as Adam Ellis and Anders Rowe, who also want to ride in Poland to try and improve themselves. Shut out everyone with ambition and we'll end up with a league of novices and pot-bellied middle aged men that would be f little appeal to anyone.

I don't think the problem with speedway in this country is the day of the week it is ridden. It is that it has become a second rate version of the sport. Excluding any rider with any ambition will only add to that.

I agree with some of that however referring to the "day of the week" I can only cite my own example in that I used to travel across to Swindon quite regularly on the Saturday as I did Coventry (as a 'neutral') as it suited my working lifestyle but once they changed to mid-week I rarely went unless Oxford were there.

Edited January 15, 2021 by steve roberts

[mikebv]

34 minutes ago, Grachan said:

It's not just top riders who go to Poland though. Poland now is, basically, what the British League was in the 70s and 80s. Riders have to ride there to have a chance of making it.

What about riders such as Adam Ellis and Anders Rowe, who also want to ride in Poland to try and improve themselves. Shut out everyone with ambition and we'll end up with a league of novices and pot-bellied middle aged men that would be f little appeal to anyone.

I don't think the problem with speedway in this country is the day of the week it is ridden. It is that it has become a second rate version of the sport. Excluding any rider with any ambition will only add to that.

Those lads who want to better themselves should go to Poland and elsewhere if they see fit..

No issues at all with that..

However, if they want to ride in the UK then they will have a choice to be made..

In the eyes of so many  Speedway is an entertainment over here, rather than serious competition, which means it should run when it can get its largest crowd in.. 

If that means racing on any day or night during the week then that is when each individual track should be given the right to run..

As long as every rider makes himself available for every meeting that the club wants to run, and when they want to run it, then all the riders can ride wherever they want...

No disrespect intended, as I am only using him as an example as a GP rider, but Jason Doyle riding at Belle Vue on a Monday night wont bring a couple of hundred extra punters above the usual die hards in.. 

But a meeting on a Friday or Saturday night without him there, definitely could, given the amount of "non regulars" who still follow the sport but go only very occasionally...

Belle Vue, as an example, seem to have around 1100-1200 who attend every/most meetings, yet can get 2500+ for Bank Holiday meetings. Which means there is an underlying fan base already there and all you need to do is get some of this extra 1300+ to attend more often.

And I would 100% suggest getting them to attend more often at weekend is easier than getting them out on a Monday or a Thursday night..

The Aces have lost two riders from their initial 2020 team, Kildemand and Lidsey, however crowds wont be decimated by their absence, (again no disrespect as they are just examples),  in fact I would be amazed if anyone decides not to go because they are not there, therefore the sport is pretty much down to its core, die hard support, so run it when you may get some "extra" in..

Bottom line is. 

Not enough punters = No Speedway. 

No Speedway = No Speedway Careers..

[steve roberts]

10 minutes ago, mikebv said:

Those lads who want to better themselves should go to Poland and elsewhere if they see fit..

No issues at all with that..

However, if they want to ride in the UK then they will have a choice to be made..

In the eyes of so many  Speedway is an entertainment over here, rather than serious competition, which means it should run when it can get its largest crowd in.. 

If that means racing on any day or night during the week then that is when each individual track should be given the right to run..

As long as every rider makes himself available for every meeting that the club wants to run, and when they want to run it, then all the riders can ride wherever they want...

No disrespect intended, as I am only using him as an example as a GP rider, but Jason Doyle riding at Belle Vue on a Monday night wont bring a couple of hundred extra punters above the usual die hards in.. 

But a meeting on a Friday or Saturday night without him there, definitely could, given the amount of "non regulars" who still follow the sport but go only very occasionally...

Belle Vue, as an example, seem to have around 1100-1200 who attend every/most meetings, yet can get 2500+ for Bank Holiday meetings. Which means there is an underlying fan base already there and all you need to do is get some of this extra 1300+ to attend more often.

And I would 100% suggest getting them to attend more often at weekend is easier than getting them out on a Monday or a Thursday night..

The Aces have lost two riders from their initial 2020 team, Kildemand and Lidsey, however crowds wont be decimated by their absence, (again no disrespect as they are just examples),  in fact I would be amazed if anyone decides not to go because they are not there, therefore the sport is pretty much down to its core, die hard support, so run it when you may get some "extra" in..

Bottom line is. 

Not enough punters = No Speedway. 

No Speedway = No Speedway Careers..

In the "Good Old Days" there was always a full programme of meetings at each track encompassing League, Cup, Regional, Individual, Pairs, 4TT, Test matches, Second Halves which kept riders fully engaged without the need to look abroad for extra meetings...but of course over the years that scenario has been severly diluted due to both rider and supporter apathy. Chicken and egg scenario really.

Edited January 15, 2021 by steve roberts

[mikebv]

8 hours ago, steve roberts said:

In the "Good Old Days" there was always a full programme of meetings at each track encompassing League, Cup, Regional, Individual, Pairs, 4TT, Test matches, Second Halves which kept riders fully engaged without the need to look abroad for extra meetings...but of course over the years that scenario has been severly diluted due to both rider and supporter apathy. Chicken and egg scenario really.

Nail on the head Steve, all these things have eroded away and disappeared, and you can add Saturday tracks being reduced down often due to the many wide and varied FIM events that now take place...

However..

To just accept that 'this is how it is' without any obviously needed fundamental, radical change of plan or ambition to change, has been criminal..

"Make do and mend, and keep making the best of a bad job"

"Work around everyone else's priorities and put out any Speedway we can, regardless of its credibility"

"Always accept the 'as is' without having, and working towards, a game changing 'to be'"

"Fudge our way through, hope for the best, and having every track still 'alive' at the end of the season is our measure of success"..

All the above could have been a 'mission statement' since the GP's started...

I have said before on here, the BSB are an excellent organistion for the BSPL to look at..

A 'smaller' brother to the WSB competition who understand (and accept), that they will often be seen as a stepping stone for UK and Overseas riders, so ensure a constant stream of younger (mainly UK lads) come through by running events for them (including cost effective one make, entry level events), on their race weekends..

They run a very competitive series using UK and Overseas riders, with several 'coming back' from riding in WSB and MotoGP to see out their careers or taking the opportunity to 'try again' to make it back into the World arenas.

They have also changed their operating model over the years to include differing races, ie less laps, more races etc to 'freshen up' their offer and keep their 'customers' interested..

In short, they "know their place" in the grand order of things, and build an operating model and business plan on the back of this...

UK Speedway needs to do the same..

 

 

 

Edited January 15, 2021 by mikebv

[OveFundinFan]

Having meetings at the weekend ie Friday, Saturday, Sunday should be able to attract a younger generation which is much needed, that is youngsters. School the next day must rob a load of youngsters from midweek meetings. Worth a shot.

To encourage newcomers, give them a chance in a second half,  no points or start money, it’s at their expense to get the experience, perhaps methanol provided foc.

[gazzac]

10 minutes ago, OveFundinFan said:

Having meetings at the weekend ie Friday, Saturday, Sunday should be able to attract a younger generation which is much needed, that is youngsters. School the next day must rob a load of youngsters from midweek meetings. Worth a shot.

To encourage newcomers, give them a chance in a second half,  no points or start money, it’s at their expense to get the experience, perhaps methanol provided foc.

Basically Eastbourne's plan over the last five years(and for longer to be honest), Saturday night first choice, if not Sunday afternoon always seem to have had a fair amount of youngsters watching, with juniors before and/or after. Have had the pleasure of seeing the likes of Kennett, Bridger, Brennen, Edwards, Abblit plus many more over the years grow from just being able to straddle a bike to adult racing. 

Edited January 15, 2021 by gazzac

[Grachan]

I used to go to Reading on a Monday. I went to Swindon on a Thursday. The crowds were big at one time. Youngsters went with no problem regarding school the next day.

Reading crowds dropped massively when they lost Per Jonsson and the stadium  became more and more delapidated. Then they dropped down a league which also affected crowds.

Swindon dropped down to Division Two in the nineties. Crowds visibly dropped. I, myself, stopped going for a while when the standard of what I was seeing at Swindon dropped to levels that weren't enjoyable.

Swindon crowds shot up when they became more successful and there were top riders there every week. They visibly dropped again when promoters weakened the product in the mid-2000s.

What will bring crowds in is giving people a product that they want to see. that is what would get me, personally, going. Low standard leagues with only unambitious riders in them are not the way to go. 

Die hard supporters may well be happy with a weak league, but you're not going to get people in with that. Dumbing down the standard is what killed the sport in this country, and it was done just as the sport looked to be staging a mini-revival.

Jason Doyle riding at Belle Vue may well not bring in an extra 200 these days, but Jason Doyle, and other top riders, NOT riding will take another 200 off the gate and then, before we know it, we are in crowds of 3 figures. 

[ch958]

15 minutes ago, Grachan said:

I used to go to Reading on a Monday. I went to Swindon on a Thursday. The crowds were big at one time. Youngsters went with no problem regarding school the next day.

Reading crowds dropped massively when they lost Per Jonsson and the stadium  became more and more delapidated. Then they dropped down a league which also affected crowds.

Swindon dropped down to Division Two in the nineties. Crowds visibly dropped. I, myself, stopped going for a while when the standard of what I was seeing at Swindon dropped to levels that weren't enjoyable.

Swindon crowds shot up when they became more successful and there were top riders there every week. They visibly dropped again when promoters weakened the product in the mid-2000s.

What will bring crowds in is giving people a product that they want to see. that is what would get me, personally, going. Low standard leagues with only unambitious riders in them are not the way to go. 

Die hard supporters may well be happy with a weak league, but you're not going to get people in with that. Dumbing down the standard is what killed the sport in this country, and it was done just as the sport looked to be staging a mini-revival.

Jason Doyle riding at Belle Vue may well not bring in an extra 200 these days, but Jason Doyle, and other top riders, NOT riding will take another 200 off the gate and then, before we know it, we are in crowds of 3 figures. 

there's not a right lot we can do about that now is there - the names are following the ££. What's the answer?

[mikebv]

4 hours ago, Grachan said:

I used to go to Reading on a Monday. I went to Swindon on a Thursday. The crowds were big at one time. Youngsters went with no problem regarding school the next day.

Reading crowds dropped massively when they lost Per Jonsson and the stadium  became more and more delapidated. Then they dropped down a league which also affected crowds.

Swindon dropped down to Division Two in the nineties. Crowds visibly dropped. I, myself, stopped going for a while when the standard of what I was seeing at Swindon dropped to levels that weren't enjoyable.

Swindon crowds shot up when they became more successful and there were top riders there every week. They visibly dropped again when promoters weakened the product in the mid-2000s.

What will bring crowds in is giving people a product that they want to see. that is what would get me, personally, going. Low standard leagues with only unambitious riders in them are not the way to go. 

Die hard supporters may well be happy with a weak league, but you're not going to get people in with that. Dumbing down the standard is what killed the sport in this country, and it was done just as the sport looked to be staging a mini-revival.

Jason Doyle riding at Belle Vue may well not bring in an extra 200 these days, but Jason Doyle, and other top riders, NOT riding will take another 200 off the gate and then, before we know it, we are in crowds of 3 figures. 

If everything in the world was 'normal' and Swindon came to the NSS on the same week they came the year before, but this time without Jason Doyle, I can virtually guarantee hardly a change in the numbers in attendance such is the way so many tracks now have 'regulars only' most weeks, and the lack of 'pull' of any rider..

If there was any difference (max 50 to 100 either way I would say) it would be down to either inclement weather if a drop, or down to it being a nice spring or summer evening if an increase..

And that's the reality, a nice spring or summer evening can bring more "extra than normal" fans in than any rider appearing can..

Another reality is that The Aces had Matej Zagar for many years at both tracks but if he went and knocked on the doors of every house within a mile radius of the stadium, hardly anyone answering the doors would know who he was, or what he did. ..

Yet the Aces (and probably every other club), spent many years planning inconsistent fixture lists around the timetables of their No1 rider. And the Aces, again like others, used to visit tracks without their No1 and use guests instead, which did nothing but leave the competition they were competing for open to ridicule and the inevitable fall off in attendances...

Sheffield would no doubt have got a 'dead cat bounce' with Nicki P for a few weeks but slowly home crowd levels would drop back as the novelty wore off and settle (at best I would suggest), around 100 to 150 more than the previous season without him, and when they ventured away the second visit wouldn't have matched the first visit for crowd numbers...

A consistent fixture list, using weekends and all the Bank Holidays, and using riders who can commit to all dates, has to be the way forward, and if that means 'lesser riders' on show then so be it, but if it means more UK riders then so much the better..

Just provide a race format and team strengths, that have four riders of pretty equal ability in every heat and the racing will be close, regardless of the lack of 'GP' names in the programme...