Tsunami Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, arnieg said: Most in the CL are doubling up already, and I would have thought those that aren't would do the PL in addition rather than instead of the CL. But probably there will still be a shortage . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Najjer Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 1 hour ago, geoff58 said: glasgow or any other championship team don't need to bother about the polish rule it only applies to extraliga riders and no one from that league is going to ride in the championship !! It also does effect Championship sides potentially - rides in the 1st and 2nd division in the Polish league can only ride in 3 leagues. It’s still unsure how that could effect the likes of Riss, Becker and Masters to name just three. Does the Premiership and Chanpionship count as two leagues potentially ruling them out of the Swedish league (and any others)? As others have already eluded to, it is a knock on effect in that Pedersen, Lambert, Iversen, Tungate etc all need replacing and it will likely be they come from the Championship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Tsunami said: But probably there will still be a shortage . Undoubtedly. I think the best hope is that the Home Office simply have too much on their plate and don't get round to bringing in new rules for 2021 and just say 'carry on for another season and we'll sort it out next year' 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS50 Posted December 6, 2020 Report Share Posted December 6, 2020 Whatever happens hopefully we will get a 2021 season. News on vaccine is hopeful. Be nice to get some official confirmation of what the promoters intend. Last year the outcome of AGM announced on 15 November. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted December 6, 2020 Report Share Posted December 6, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, RS50 said: Whatever happens hopefully we will get a 2021 season. News on vaccine is hopeful. Be nice to get some official confirmation of what the promoters intend. Last year the outcome of AGM announced on 15 November. Promoters have officially stated that they all aim for an Easter weekend start to the 2021 season. Incidentally with regard to rider availability Adam Ellis is a case in point - he has a team place in Poland, Sweden and Swindon so is unlikely to be available for Poole, even though its his closest track to his UK base! Edited December 6, 2020 by Skidder1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrhbig Posted December 7, 2020 Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 As the teams get weakened by lower points limits, it becomes more important in most cases who the number six and seven riders are, as they often seem to win/lose meetings, but is this seeing a quality product, or a mathematically manoeuvred one. Remember when Wednesday was Speedway night, now you can go a month without a home meeting, and you then have to find something else to do, and gradually get used to not going to Speedway, so sad but a fact. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotallyHonestJohn Posted December 7, 2020 Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 On 12/5/2020 at 12:14 PM, screm said: I see no credible reason to change any rules for 2021, I thought all the clubs had agreed that. Seems Glasgow aren't to happy https://www.glasgowtigers.org/club-statement-bspa-21/ Wow and I mean WOW!!! Talk about airing your dirty washing in public... so where I was guessing before at a build limit of 38/39 it looks like this option is being discussed and the limit will be 38.5 if other clubs get their way and all clubs will be looking to lose at least one rider from their chosen 2020 septet if the new build limit is enforced... Alan Dick does to a certain extent have a point however there are some very extenuating circumstances to be considered here with Brexit, Poland and now to a lesser extent Covid and not least 11 other clubs in the Championship and another 7 in the Premiership... I could pull apart some of his arguments with counter arguments but there would be little value in that and I do sympathise with some of the points he has put forward; but I think as he himself has stated everyone should have held off and waited until after Brexit and the Poland issue's were sorted and him included with this press release... It smacks to me (and I may be totally wide of the mark) that Glasgow may have jumped the gun and paid riders sign on fees that they will now struggle to recover and obviously if changes are now forced upon them they may wish to take the team in a totally different direction and cut more than one rider to restructure their team; but of course this could potentially cost more in lost sign on fees and the paying of new ones... Interesting times and I think there will be ramifications from this press release as it isn't the way the BSPL tend to operate... i.e. in the public domain; so to speak... I would love to be a fly on the wall at the next BSPL meeting as his press release will certainly generate debate that's for sure... Finally as everyone (including Alan Dick) is of the opinion that the "product is being diluted" why don't Glasgow take their team up a league which would strengthen the rider pool for the teams left in the championship or possibly make an opening for Plymouth to come back into the league?... I have said for a long time Glasgow have the support; the stadium and the financial clout to compete with the so called big boys in the Premiership... Sheffield have taken the risk and unless you try you will never know; it may be more financially rewarding than where they are now... Regards THJ 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topaz325 Posted December 7, 2020 Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, TotallyHonestJohn said: Wow and I mean WOW!!! Talk about airing your dirty washing in public... so where I was guessing before at a build limit of 38/39 it looks like this option is being discussed and the limit will be 38.5 if other clubs get their way and all clubs will be looking to lose at least one rider from their chosen 2020 septet if the new build limit is enforced... Alan Dick does to a certain extent have a point however there are some very extenuating circumstances to be considered here with Brexit, Poland and now to a lesser extent Covid and not least 11 other clubs in the Championship and another 7 in the Premiership... I could pull apart some of his arguments with counter arguments but there would be little value in that and I do sympathise with some of the points he has put forward; but I think as he himself has stated everyone should have held off and waited until after Brexit and the Poland issue's were sorted and him included with this press release... It smacks to me (and I may be totally wide of the mark) that Glasgow may have jumped the gun and paid riders sign on fees that they will now struggle to recover and obviously if changes are now forced upon them they may wish to take the team in a totally different direction and cut more than one rider to restructure their team; but of course this could potentially cost more in lost sign on fees and the paying of new ones... Interesting times and I think there will be ramifications from this press release as it isn't the way the BSPL tend to operate... i.e. in the public domain; so to speak... I would love to be a fly on the wall at the next BSPL meeting as his press release will certainly generate debate that's for sure... Finally as everyone (including Alan Dick) is of the opinion that the "product is being diluted" why don't Glasgow take their team up a league which would strengthen the rider pool for the teams left in the championship or possibly make an opening for Plymouth to come back into the league?... I have said for a long time Glasgow have the support; the stadium and the financial clout to compete with the so called big boys in the Premiership... Sheffield have taken the risk and unless you try you will never know; it may be more financially rewarding than where they are now... Regards THJ It was only a few years ago that Glasgow were not getting enough fans (current promotion) also the distance to other teams in the top division is too great at least now they attract fans from Edinburgh , Berwick , Newcastle , Redcar and Workington . I totally get what Glasgow are saying but they might find the majority of clubs against them Edited December 7, 2020 by topaz325 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotallyHonestJohn Posted December 7, 2020 Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 2 hours ago, topaz325 said: It was only a few years ago that Glasgow were not getting enough fans (current promotion) also the distance to other teams in the top division is too great at least now they attract fans from Edinburgh , Berwick , Newcastle , Redcar and Workington . I totally get what Glasgow are saying but they might find the majority of clubs against them Agree with what you are saying to a certain extent however without trying it's only guess work really... The rewards are higher in the top league and surely the crowds would be bigger... what are the crowds like now? 6/800 possibly? With better racing could they double that and with a couple of quid on the entry fee? Its not beyond the reach of a club as big as Glasgow are now... I honestly don't think it should be totally dismissed out of hand as they are losing fortunes (or subsidising lots whatever your take is) on providing the current level of racing... it wouldn't cost much more to make the jump up and the returns would be a lot greater... no sign on fees it the top league... If it was me I would give it a go... how many teams have went up one year then came back down the next... Just a thought Regards THJ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byker Biker Posted December 7, 2020 Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 4 hours ago, topaz325 said: It was only a few years ago that Glasgow were not getting enough fans (current promotion) also the distance to other teams in the top division is too great at least now they attract fans from Edinburgh , Berwick , Newcastle , Redcar and Workington . I totally get what Glasgow are saying but they might find the majority of clubs against them They might find the clubs that are against them are; 1 in a position of "influence" within the BSP 2 Bleeding out of the backside on a perpetual basis but won't consider the lower league I won't praise Glasgow's extravagance over recent years but their point based on minuted General Council Meetings is totally valid, anyone for Coventry and Peterborough v BSPA as an interval attraction? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted December 8, 2020 Report Share Posted December 8, 2020 6 hours ago, TotallyHonestJohn said: Agree with what you are saying to a certain extent however without trying it's only guess work really... The rewards are higher in the top league and surely the crowds would be bigger... what are the crowds like now? 6/800 possibly? With better racing could they double that and with a couple of quid on the entry fee? Its not beyond the reach of a club as big as Glasgow are now... I honestly don't think it should be totally dismissed out of hand as they are losing fortunes (or subsidising lots whatever your take is) on providing the current level of racing... it wouldn't cost much more to make the jump up and the returns would be a lot greater... no sign on fees it the top league... If it was me I would give it a go... how many teams have went up one year then came back down the next... Just a thought Regards THJ It would throw a spanner in the works if they did.. The TV money would be stretched in the top league for a kick off, which probably stops the idea in its tracks right there.. Add in the lack of potential heat leaders from overseas due to Brexit and Polabd and that too will stop another team moving up I would think, especially a team who could out pay some of the more established teams for the talent that is available.. If any team could do it though I would suggest Glasgow is the one, and the owners do seem to be very driven, and dont look like the kind of people who will accept others impacting their business negatively.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotallyHonestJohn Posted December 8, 2020 Report Share Posted December 8, 2020 13 hours ago, mikebv said: It would throw a spanner in the works if they did.. The TV money would be stretched in the top league for a kick off, which probably stops the idea in its tracks right there.. Add in the lack of potential heat leaders from overseas due to Brexit and Poland and that too will stop another team moving up I would think, especially a team who could out pay some of the more established teams for the talent that is available.. If any team could do it though I would suggest Glasgow is the one, and the owners do seem to be very driven, and don't look like the kind of people who will accept others impacting their business negatively.. Honestly I don't think throwing a spanner into the works would worry Glasgow much to be fair if history is anything to go by... What will the TV monies amount to 80k (ish) a club maybe? so it would mean 70k per club for an 8 team league... doable?... Glasgow up and Mildenhall IOW and Plymouth come into the Championship so 8 in one league and 14 in the other? The riders will be whoever can be obtained and like in the good old (or bad old) days maybe one 8 point average rider per team in the Premiership (Share things out)… However here is a prediction for you GLASGOW WILL GET THERE OWN WAY... THE POINTS LIMIT WILL STAY AT 41 POINTS AND GLASGOW WILL KEEP THE EXACT SAME TEAM THEY SELECTED FOR 2020; stuff anyone else... and I wish I could predict the lottery numbers as easy... Regards THJ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ringitsneck Posted December 8, 2020 Report Share Posted December 8, 2020 22 minutes ago, TotallyHonestJohn said: Honestly I don't think throwing a spanner into the works would worry Glasgow much to be fair if history is anything to go by... What will the TV monies amount to 80k (ish) a club maybe? so it would mean 70k per club for an 8 team league... doable?... Glasgow up and Mildenhall IOW and Plymouth come into the Championship so 8 in one league and 14 in the other? The riders will be whoever can be obtained and like in the good old (or bad old) days maybe one 8 point average rider per team in the Premiership (Share things out)… However here is a prediction for you GLASGOW WILL GET THERE OWN WAY... THE POINTS LIMIT WILL STAY AT 41 POINTS AND GLASGOW WILL KEEP THE EXACT SAME TEAM THEY SELECTED FOR 2020; stuff anyone else... and I wish I could predict the lottery numbers as easy... Regards THJ Why should Glasgow be forced into changing their team just because 2 or 3 other teams ( including my local side Newcastle) have an issue ? Rules were agreed and riders signed accordingly. The situation was then rubber stamped that the same teams could be carried forward to 2021 but now a minority aren’t happy and want the rules changing, well that’s just WRONG! Im no great fan of Glasgow but they do run it like a business , unlike most other clubs, and I feel they are quite right to stand their ground. Whilst they may have gone against the mafia in making their feelings public, good on them for letting their fans know what is going on. Glasgow won’t go up because of the fixed race night. The last TV deal netted each premiership club 50k, championship teams got peanuts. As for premiership teams not paying signing on fees THJ? Get real! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted December 8, 2020 Report Share Posted December 8, 2020 13 minutes ago, Ringitsneck said: Why should Glasgow be forced into changing their team just because 2 or 3 other teams ( including my local side Newcastle) have an issue ? Rules were agreed and riders signed accordingly. The situation was then rubber stamped that the same teams could be carried forward to 2021 but now a minority aren’t happy and want the rules changing, well that’s just WRONG! Im no great fan of Glasgow but they do run it like a business , unlike most other clubs, and I feel they are quite right to stand their ground. Whilst they may have gone against the mafia in making their feelings public, good on them for letting their fans know what is going on. Glasgow won’t go up because of the fixed race night. The last TV deal netted each premiership club 50k, championship teams got peanuts. As for premiership teams not paying signing on fees THJ? Get real! because no one had the foresight to see what effect Brexit work restrictions would have, even though its been coming for 4 years and no one knew that Poland would start being sh@thouses. And I think you'll find it'll be more than 2/3 teams eventually. But I'm alright Jack. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotallyHonestJohn Posted December 8, 2020 Report Share Posted December 8, 2020 10 minutes ago, Ringitsneck said: Why should Glasgow be forced into changing their team just because 2 or 3 other teams ( including my local side Newcastle) have an issue ? Rules were agreed and riders signed accordingly. The situation was then rubber stamped that the same teams could be carried forward to 2021 but now a minority aren’t happy and want the rules changing, well that’s just WRONG! Im no great fan of Glasgow but they do run it like a business , unlike most other clubs, and I feel they are quite right to stand their ground. Whilst they may have gone against the mafia in making their feelings public, good on them for letting their fans know what is going on. Glasgow won’t go up because of the fixed race night. The last TV deal netted each premiership club 50k, championship teams got peanuts. As for premiership teams not paying signing on fees THJ? Get real! Honestly I don't know why I am dignifying this with a reply but never mind here goes... Where are the other clubs going to get riders from there is a dearth of them at present and it is more than 2 or 3 teams impacted… Further more there are more than just 4 teams in the league and everyone's point should be listened to IMHO... many who post on here hate "doubling up" with a passion so to share rides out the only feasible option is to reduce the build level... We have had the argument before "what's the point of screwing over other clubs to the extent where they run weakened sides" clubs in the past have been fined for running a weakened team... I for one would just give Glasgow all the trophies now rather than run a season with them... sort it out from the start as this happens each year and its becoming a bit of a joke now... As I am typing ch958 has posted a valid response 2 minutes ago, ch958 said: because no one had the foresight to see what effect Brexit work restrictions would have, even though its been coming for 4 years and no one knew that Poland would start being sh@thouses. And I think you'll find it'll be more than 2/3 teams eventually. But I'm alright Jack. Glasgow won’t go up because of the fixed race night!!! Think you will find Glasgow will do what's best for Glasgow regardless of whenever the race night is. The last TV deal netted each premiership club 50k, championship teams got peanuts!!! So what's your point? its what this TV deal worth now you clown 8 clubs can chare 350k just as easy as 7 clubs can? if that's the number you want to work to? As for premiership teams not paying signing on fees THJ? Get real! Oh well when the "balloon" you "spanner" for makes the Premiership lets see how much he gets offered; oh hang on a minute that wont ever happen will it... all of the riders I have sponsored over the last 15 years have all told me they don't get sign on feeds in the top league!!! are you saying all of these guys are lying... and it has been expressed on here for years that this is the case for your reasonable British rider.. (Pederson Lindgren and maybe some of the top European; Australians and/or GP riders possibly/probably)… but riders doubling up between the leagues it just doesn't happen... what a numb nut... Regards THJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted December 8, 2020 Report Share Posted December 8, 2020 Given the perceived shortage of riders,and the farce of many riders “ doubling up as well as guesting” would one league not be the sensible answer for the sport in GB promoting the the young talent into the league. Revamp and start again is the answer IMO. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted December 8, 2020 Report Share Posted December 8, 2020 Without covid the 2020 season would have been run and the AGM would have set a new and appropriate limit for 2021 in the full knowledge of current conditions. To suggest the 2020 limit is sacrosanct is to ignore the real world. I would like to aim to keep the limit at 41, but it is simply beginning to look not practicable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ringitsneck Posted December 8, 2020 Report Share Posted December 8, 2020 2 hours ago, TotallyHonestJohn said: Honestly I don't know why I am dignifying this with a reply but never mind here goes... Where are the other clubs going to get riders from there is a dearth of them at present and it is more than 2 or 3 teams impacted… Further more there are more than just 4 teams in the league and everyone's point should be listened to IMHO... many who post on here hate "doubling up" with a passion so to share rides out the only feasible option is to reduce the build level... We have had the argument before "what's the point of screwing over other clubs to the extent where they run weakened sides" clubs in the past have been fined for running a weakened team... I for one would just give Glasgow all the trophies now rather than run a season with them... sort it out from the start as this happens each year and its becoming a bit of a joke now... As I am typing ch958 has posted a valid response Glasgow won’t go up because of the fixed race night!!! Think you will find Glasgow will do what's best for Glasgow regardless of whenever the race night is. The last TV deal netted each premiership club 50k, championship teams got peanuts!!! So what's your point? its what this TV deal worth now you clown 8 clubs can chare 350k just as easy as 7 clubs can? if that's the number you want to work to? As for premiership teams not paying signing on fees THJ? Get real! Oh well when the "balloon" you "spanner" for makes the Premiership lets see how much he gets offered; oh hang on a minute that wont ever happen will it... all of the riders I have sponsored over the last 15 years have all told me they don't get sign on feeds in the top league!!! are you saying all of these guys are lying... and it has been expressed on here for years that this is the case for your reasonable British rider.. (Pederson Lindgren and maybe some of the top European; Australians and/or GP riders possibly/probably)… but riders doubling up between the leagues it just doesn't happen... what a numb nut... Regards THJ I’ll forgive you the name calling as I know you have Tourette’s when your ranting but it might stop me buying you a bovril next time I see you. Shortage of riders? Then how come Godfrey has 16 riders he wants to see employed? Give Glasgow the trophies?....they’ve won bugger all lately. Glasgow doing what they want ? ...yes, running on a Friday so won’t move up. TV money...who cares who gets what in the premiership but you were talking incorrect figures....just like no signing on fees...every rider in the two sides I sponsored riders in , in 2019 got a signing on fee, and I do know how much , and it’s been done in all premiership teams so yes, you've been told more tales. Keep spouting your tales THJ , your good for a few more rants yet. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortythirtyeight Posted December 8, 2020 Report Share Posted December 8, 2020 Not sure where you get your facts from THJ but I can assure you, riders in the Premiership team I assisted at got a sign on fee. I should know , I helped negotiate them and some of the fees paid by certain clubs would blow your mind! Exactly the same when we dropped into the championship just less of a fee. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotallyHonestJohn Posted December 8, 2020 Report Share Posted December 8, 2020 17 minutes ago, Fortythirtyeight said: Not sure where you get your facts from THJ but I can assure you, riders in the Premiership team I assisted at got a sign on fee. I should know , I helped negotiate them and some of the fees paid by certain clubs would blow your mind! Exactly the same when we dropped into the championship just less of a fee. I accept some of the big hitters get a sign on fee (and could quote several) as I stated; and not wanting to mention any names but several of the British riders I have sponsored in the past have all said they didn't receive sign on fees in the top league and to be fair I have no reason not to believe them... Regards THJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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