Armando Castagna article in SS.

[Humphrey Appleby]

2 minutes ago, JohnHyam said:

??? What American sport is that please?

Speedway...

[steve roberts]

22 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

It's their ball because they put up the money and carry the losses. You can't realistically expect people without any financial stake in the sport to ultimately be calling the shots - no matter how badly it's being run - because there's no guarantee that them spending the money of others will actually do any better.

The sad reality is that speedway has such a poor demographic and has fallen so far in public consciousness that no serious administrator, marketer or financier would want to have anything to do with it, even if the sport could afford them. The sport has dug itself into a hole - partly although not totally of its own making - and it's very difficult to see how it can dig itself out. 

What should happen though, is that the promoters set the framework and underlying conditions for running the sport each year (or ideally over a longer period), and then an independent Commissioner or Commission is responsible for implementing that. It's the way most serious sports have gone in recent years, and ideally a commission would also include independent directors with marketing, finance and legal skills. However, speedway is too impoverished and sadly Mickey Mouse for that to happen in any serious way.e

I remember back in 1985 that the then elected Chairman of the BSPA was Stuart Bamforth who as promoter of Belle Vue came to Cowley waving a bit of paper saying that Oxford could only use a junior in place of the German Klaus Lausch as the relevant paperwork hadn't been registered. He would have known of this days prior to the meeting taking place but allowed a conflict of interest get in the way which left a very sour taste. If I recall the Oxford co-promoter Bernard Crapper was very scaving of his actions after the meetng on the centre green mike.

I fully understand that those with money issues should have a major say in matters but when a conflict of interest clouds their judgenment I feel that an independant body and/or person should take on those decisions allowing the promoters to do what they should be doing and that's promote their business.

Edited December 2, 2020 by steve roberts

[Guest]

2 hours ago, ch958 said:

i notice the idea to change the sports name - what could that be? It is a bleeding nuisance that the Americans use the name for a different sport altogether. 

 

I cannot of seem to trace the other American sport of speedway. I know that Nascar race on speedways - but that's a terminology to describe the race circuit not a sport. And the American tracks - the few there are where riders use speedway bikes describe their sport as such. 

What is the different Amrican sport that describes itself as speedway? Are you confusing it with their bigger and better organised track motorcycle sport Flat Track racing? They probably describe many of the tracks they compete at as speedways.

Edited December 2, 2020 by Guest

[steve roberts]

1 minute ago, JohnHyam said:

I cannot of seem to trace the American sport of speedway. I now that Nascar race on speedways - but that's a terminology to describe the race circuit not a sport. And the American tracks - the few there are where riders use speedway bikes describe their sport as such. 

What is the different Amrican sport that describes itself as speedway? You are not confusing it with their bigger and better organised track motorcycle racing Flat Track?

I seem to recall an Elvis film entitled "Speedway" whereby he raced cars on an oval circuit?

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

I seem to recall an Elvis film entitled "Speedway" whereby he raced cars on an oval circuit?

Again -was that a description of the circuit being used to race cars on or an actual sport called speedway. I think it was the opinion I highlight.

[Humphrey Appleby]

5 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

I remember back in 1985 that the then elected Chairman of the BSPA was Stuart Bamforth who as promoter of Belle Vue came to Cowley waving a bit of paper saying that Oxford could only use a junior in place of the German Klaus Lausch as the relevant paperwork hadn't been registered. He would have known of this days prior to the meeting taking place but allowed a conflict of interest get in the way which left a very sour taste. If I recall the Oxford co-promoter Bernard Crapper was very scaving of his actions after the meetng on the centre green mike.

I fully understand that those with money issues should have a major say in matters but when a conflict of interest clouds their judgenment I feel that an independant body and/or person should take on those decisions allowing the promoters to do what they should be doing and that's promote their business.

Yes, but the above example is precisely a decision that should be taken by an independent commission according to the rules in place. The underlying rules should still be decided by the promoters though, no matter how daft they may be.

Bottom line though, is that Crapper would surely have known the rules about replacement riders and was probably trying it on. Even if it was just a missing bit of paperwork, the onus was on him to ensure it was registered wherever it was supposed to be registered.

Whether or not a squad system is impractical in speedway, so many promoters have abused the guest and rider replacement rules and is one of the reasons why the sport has no credibility so many have walked away after one too many pisstakes. 

 

[PHILIPRISING]

5 minutes ago, JohnHyam said:

Again -was that a description of the circuit being used to race cars on or an actual sport called speedway. I think it was the opinion I highlight.

SPEEDWAY is normally used to describe a motor racing circuit

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

23 minutes ago, JohnHyam said:

Again -was that a description of the circuit being used to race cars on or an actual sport called speedway. I think it was the opinion I highlight.

Just as well lockdown has ended - you can get yourself down to the barbers to sort out those split hairs you seem to have accumulated 

[steve roberts]

28 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

Yes, but the above example is precisely a decision that should be taken by an independent commission according to the rules in place. The underlying rules should still be decided by the promoters though, no matter how daft they may be.

Bottom line though, is that Crapper would surely have known the rules about replacement riders and was probably trying it on. Even if it was just a missing bit of paperwork, the onus was on him to ensure it was registered wherever it was supposed to be registered.

Whether or not a squad system is impractical in speedway, so many promoters have abused the guest and rider replacement rules and is one of the reasons why the sport has no credibility so many have walked away after one too many pisstakes. 

 

Yes that's my point. The rules shoud be decided by those who have a financial input in the sport but then an independant authority administers same. The point I was making with Bamforth's action was that there was a blatant 'conflict of interest' and 'wearing of hats'. I agree that Crapper as promoter should have known the rules but the point wasn't made known to him until the day of the meeting. Bamforth as Chairman presumeably was aware of the anomaly but with his Belle Vue 'hat' waited until just before the meeting before declaring his hand therefore attempting to gain an advantage...however all was made good. The "Cheetahs" beat the "Aces" thus progressing to the next round of the cup!

Edited December 2, 2020 by steve roberts

[iris123]

21 minutes ago, PHILIPRISING said:

SPEEDWAY is normally used to describe a motor racing circuit

Yes, but there was the famous case of a low level former UK rider who got onto breakfast tv because of an illness I think and the people interviewing him thought he was a former racing car driver, because of the speedway name........

[Technik]

My SS has arrived & I have read the Castagna piece & I'm in full agreement with him. The FIM cannot rule over any domestic league & the FMN of each nation has to do what's best for their own ideals as the Poles have shown with their tactics. They maybe unpopular with everyone else but this is what suits the Polish clubs & we all must find a way to be happy with it & work around it.

If I were a young British rider my ideal would be to get as much racing in as possible whilst I developed my skill levels, I would race in both British leagues try Sweden & Denmark maybe take on some open meetings in Germany, Czech Rep, Holland, France & Italy. Only when I was sure I was at a level that would be good enough would I take on the Polish leagues.

So far as the rule that restricts riders that race in Polish teams to only one other league I am under the understanding that this is an agreement between the rider & each club when a new contract is agreed & not a rule from the PZM.

Also I wonder if riding in more than one of the Polish leagues counts as well. Adam Ellis has mentioned that he might have to move away from one of his British clubs if he races in Poland. Then there is the situation the the Holder brothers were in last season where they were in one side then operated as a guest each week for another will this count as two leagues.

[Fromafar]

3 hours ago, steve roberts said:

Yes that's my point. The rules shoud be decided by those who have a financial input in the sport but then an independant authority administers same. The point I was making with Bamforth's action was that there was a blatant 'conflict of interest' and 'wearing of hats'. I agree that Crapper as promoter should have known the rules but the point wasn't made known to him until the day of the meeting. Bamforth as Chairman presumeably was aware of the anomaly but with his Belle Vue 'hat' waited until just before the meeting before declaring his hand therefore attempting to gain an advantage...however all was made good. The "Cheetahs" beat the "Aces" thus progressing to the next round of the cup!

Agree,that type of situation is not an isolated incident.I know of a few examples where the Promoters with the most “influence “ on BSPA have tried to “pull a fast one” regarding use of riders and rules.

[steve roberts]

4 minutes ago, Fromafar said:

Agree,that type of situation is not an isolated incident.I know of a few examples where the Promoters with the most “influence “ on BSPA have tried to “pull a fast one” regarding use of riders and rules.

Len Silver (although not a member of the BSPA committee to be fair?) did a similar thing just prior to a meeting starting in 1977 when White City were the visitors. The rider in question (Mick Hines) even had his name printed in the programme but was ineligible to ride due to the seven day ruling if I recall....however White City still went on to win the meeting with, if I remember, Roger Abel taking his place?

Edited December 2, 2020 by steve roberts

[ch958]

deleted

Edited December 3, 2020 by ch958