Armando Castagna article in SS.

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

Now is the time for the uk to go it’s own way, take a step back, change the sport, appeal again to its working man’s audience again, stop trying to be something it isn’t, it’s apeal has always been its rawness it’s connection to its fans , change the engines, stop lining the pockets of the tuners, nothing is gained by the pursuit of speed in our sport, there was a quote in the polish section of the SS a couple of weeks ago where a guy said polish speedway has lost its soul and as much as I love polish speedway it’s true it has, the balance has tipped in favour of business, when we finally get through this covid crap, the world will have changed and if people think speedway will just pick up and carry on as normal then they are in for a shock, now is the time to change the sport for the better, I honestly believe poland won’t be far behind us 

Edited November 30, 2020 by THE DEAN MACHINE

[SteveLyric2]

I confess that having read the article I questioned exactly why the FIM exists?? They allow all the different country federations to set their own rules and appear to have no teeth nor appetite for dispute resolution, preferring simply to 'point the finger' at countries getting their own house in order - whatever that means?!.

Edited November 30, 2020 by Skidder1

[Daniel Smith]

6 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

Now is the time for the uk to go it’s own way, take a step back, change the sport, appeal again to its working man’s audience again, stop trying to be something it isn’t, it’s apeal has always been its rawness it’s connection to its fans , change the engines, stop lining the pockets of the tuners, nothing is gained by the pursuit of speed in our sport, there was a quote in the polish section of the SS a couple of weeks ago where a guy said polish speedway has lost its soul and as much as I love polish speedway it’s true it has, the balance has tipped in favour of business, when we finally get through this covid crap, the world will have changed and if people think speedway will just pick up and carry on as normal then they are in for a shock, now is the time to change the sport for the better, I honestly believe poland won’t be far behind us 

This is pretty much every sport that exists. It's now all about how much money can be made rather than the interests of sport as a whole. 

Speedway is no longer about rider's just having fun, it's a living, that in itself means searching for the best. Frames, engines, tuners, tyres, etc etc. Speedway is in such a position it can't now turn the clock back & reset. 

In the UK we're finding it hard enough to find rider availability hence doubling up & guest riders.

To go back & start from scratch I can see a single club surviving. 

With industry as it is up & down the UK there's not really a 'working mans' class as it once was anymore. There is no substantial jobs today that are down & dirty for little money. 

Predominantly if you have a full time job your comfortably in the 'then' middle class equivalent. 

Society today quite simply just don't want to spend a night out getting covered in dirt & dust, it's really just as simple as that. 

[PHILIPRISING]

6 hours ago, Skidder1 said:

I confess that having read the article I questioned exactly why the FIM exists?? They allow all the different country federations to set their own rules and appear to have no teeth nor appetite for dispute resolution, preferring simply to 'point the finger' at countries getting their own house in order - whatever that means?!.

PROBABLY because the FIM is the international governing body for all forms of motorcycle racing

[Ray Stadia]

7 hours ago, Daniel Smith said:

This is pretty much every sport that exists. It's now all about how much money can be made rather than the interests of sport as a whole. 

Speedway is no longer about rider's just having fun, it's a living, that in itself means searching for the best. Frames, engines, tuners, tyres, etc etc. Speedway is in such a position it can't now turn the clock back & reset. 

In the UK we're finding it hard enough to find rider availability hence doubling up & guest riders.

To go back & start from scratch I can see a single club surviving. 

With industry as it is up & down the UK there's not really a 'working mans' class as it once was anymore. There is no substantial jobs today that are down & dirty for little money. 

Predominantly if you have a full time job your comfortably in the 'then' middle class equivalent. 

Society today quite simply just don't want to spend a night out getting covered in dirt & dust, it's really just as simple as that. 

I said year's ago, the survival of speedway in Britain, will be a 'track in a field' and maybe we aren't far away from that fact. You will still get people who want to support the sport, probably the same number of people who have been supporting it up until now. Also, league racing would need to go and have individual meetings instead. Perhaps, if it took off from that base, the sport could creep back into some decent stadiums.   

[f-s-p]

9 hours ago, Skidder1 said:

I confess that having read the article I questioned exactly why the FIM exists?? They allow all the different country federations to set their own rules and appear to have no teeth nor appetite for dispute resolution, preferring simply to 'point the finger' at countries getting their own house in order - whatever that means?!.

Which own rules?

[PolskiZuzel]

On 11/29/2020 at 10:54 AM, phillwhitewasmad said:

When I read the article I interpreted it as put your own house in order be firm with your national licensed riders and if they don't like it block them from riding elsewhere.

in fairness he's bang on with it however the likes of woffinden and Lambert will just revert to foreign licences and race under a different national flag.

That is exactly how I read (understood) this article.

[PolskiZuzel]

10 hours ago, Daniel Smith said:

Speedway is no longer about rider's just having fun, it's a living, that in itself means searching for the best. Frames, engines, tuners, tyres, etc etc. Speedway is in such a position it can't now turn the clock back & reset. 

Tell me...when speedway was about riders just having fun ?

In my opinion speedway was always treated as a way of making living, and no rider was riding for just having fun., whether it was in Capitalist West or Communist East.

[ch958]

5 minutes ago, PolskiZuzel said:

Tell me...when speedway was about riders just having fun ?

In my opinion speedway was always treated as a way of making living, and no rider was riding for just having fun., whether it was in Capitalist West or Communist East.

I think you're wrong pz, once upon a time all but the elite had jobs as well as riding, riding was a paid hobby for most

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

14 hours ago, PolskiZuzel said:

Tell me...when speedway was about riders just having fun ?

In my opinion speedway was always treated as a way of making living, and no rider was riding for just having fun., whether it was in Capitalist West or Communist East.

I did, it cost me a fortune over 20 years but I didn’t care, I just wanted to race speedway and being in a team was fantastic, I had some really crap deals financially like at Berwick but I didn’t care I loved every minute, to me there are things in life that money can’t buy and winning races for your team is one of them, I came into speedway with nothing, left with even less but those memories are worth a million 

Edited December 1, 2020 by THE DEAN MACHINE

[Humphrey Appleby]

On 11/29/2020 at 1:52 PM, Vince said:

I would imagine a GP series run outside of FIM authorisation but paying well would gain much support and like the ACU here it has been proven time and again that they cannot revoke riders license for riding under a different authority.

However it might stumble at the paying well bit unless you get the right people involved to bring in sponsorship. just yesterday we heard that one of the many ACU alternatives, the MCF are shutting their doors after many years but to be fair they bought about a lot of change for the good in their time, especially for riders.

The time for speedway to have done it was 20-25 years ago. The professional speedway leagues/promoters bodies should have got together and set-up their own organisation to take control and the profits from the SGP/SWC etc.. or at least obtained some sort of autonomy from the FIM to run their own affairs in the way that F1 teams did years ago. However, through a complete lack of vision and petty rivalries they've allows themselves to be divided and conquered and outside entities have come in to skim off what little cream there is.

The problem with doing your own thing though, is that you have to set-up all the training and accreditation of officials, homologation of equipment, and track safety inspections almost from scratch. You can leach off the official authorities for a while, but eventually need to put all this place yourself. Plus in some countries you may need to get separate approvals or even new laws passed to run legally if you're outside an official sanctioning body. 

Whilst I'm more involved in the 4-wheel side of things, I know we run into all sorts of approvals and insurance difficulties if we run outside of Motorsports UK. Others do it (and I've done it as an individual), but I'd definitely be concerned as an organiser about the potential legal liabilities if something went badly wrong. 

[Tsunami]

8 hours ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

The time for speedway to have done it was 20-25 years ago. The professional speedway leagues/promoters bodies should have got together and set-up their own organisation to take control and the profits from the SGP/SWC etc.. or at least obtained some sort of autonomy from the FIM to run their own affairs in the way that F1 teams did years ago. However, through a complete lack of vision and petty rivalries they've allows themselves to be divided and conquered and outside entities have come in to skim off what little cream there is.

The problem with doing your own thing though, is that you have to set-up all the training and accreditation of officials, homologation of equipment, and track safety inspections almost from scratch. You can leach off the official authorities for a while, but eventually need to put all this place yourself. Plus in some countries you may need to get separate approvals or even new laws passed to run legally if you're outside an official sanctioning body. 

Whilst I'm more involved in the 4-wheel side of things, I know we run into all sorts of approvals and insurance difficulties if we run outside of Motorsports UK. Others do it (and I've done it as an individual), but I'd definitely be concerned as an organiser about the potential legal liabilities if something went badly wrong. 

I was part of consortium that nearly did. In 1996 we were contacted because other tracks knew that we were track hunting and an offer was put to us. It would have been at a lower level to the "Big League", which started in 1995 and too expensive,  and at first there was going to be 6 teams as starters. WE were going to be affiliated to the ACU direct with a new name for the sport, and have our own operating committee. We held covert meetings, with one existing  BL team being represented, added to us as new starters and other NL type of teams. WE agreed how we would run and expecially the pay rate. Unfortunately. someone found out, and the BSPA were told, and they invited us to join a new league that they were planning with the similar standard and pay rates. WE were persuaded  to join the Premier League, but at the very first meeting we were told the pay rate was £3 higher than the rate we had agreed, but we had gone that far down the road that we agreed and had to revise our spending plans. So even with a breakaway that was feasible and affordable, we were shafted by the BSPA so the independent league never got started.  

[steve roberts]

7 hours ago, Tsunami said:

I was part of consortium that nearly did. In 1996 we were contacted because other tracks knew that we were track hunting and an offer was put to us. It would have been at a lower level to the "Big League", which started in 1995 and too expensive,  and at first there was going to be 6 teams as starters. WE were going to be affiliated to the ACU direct with a new name for the sport, and have our own operating committee. We held covert meetings, with one existing  BL team being represented, added to us as new starters and other NL type of teams. WE agreed how we would run and expecially the pay rate. Unfortunately. someone found out, and the BSPA were told, and they invited us to join a new league that they were planning with the similar standard and pay rates. WE were persuaded  to join the Premier League, but at the very first meeting we were told the pay rate was £3 higher than the rate we had agreed, but we had gone that far down the road that we agreed and had to revise our spending plans. So even with a breakaway that was feasible and affordable, we were shafted by the BSPA so the independent league never got started.  

That's an interesting insight and highlights the problems trying to alter things in the UK.

[mikebv]

5 hours ago, steve roberts said:

That's an interesting insight and highlights the problems trying to alter things in the UK.

When they finally realise that many outside their 'speedway bubble' dont take the comps they run seriously, they may then start to move on and concentrate their energies and money on what is actually important, and that is the collective growth of the sport..

Paying out hundreds of thousands each year to employees when very few potential customers in your area, never mind nationally, even know what you do,  what you provide, or even know you exist, is simply crazy from a business perspective.

Yet clubs do this year in year out and seem to then annually scratch their heads working out why it isnt delivering success, and then come up with other random ideas to solve their problems that in no way ever sort the main issue, but instead, sometimes even alienate their hard core customer base. 

If ever an entity required clear, independent leadership then Speedway in the UK fits that bill perfectly..

Even to just save it from itself..

 

Edited December 2, 2020 by mikebv

[Fromafar]

2 hours ago, mikebv said:

When they finally realise that many outside their 'speedway bubble' dont take the comps they run seriously, they may then start to move on and concentrate their energies and money on what is actually important, and that is the collective growth of the sport..

Paying out hundreds of thousands each year to employees when very few potential customers in your area, never mind nationally, even know what you do,  what you provide, or even know you exist, is simply crazy from a business perspective.

Yet clubs do this year in year out and seem to then annually scratch their heads working out why it isnt delivering success, and then come up with other random ideas to solve their problems that in now way ever sort the main issue, but instead, sometimes even alienate their hard core customer base. 

If ever an entity required clear, independent leadership then Speedway in the UK fits that bill perfectly..

Even to just save it from itself..

 

 I agree,They don’t seem to understand how “Mickey Mouse” the sport looks to outsiders.Independent Body is the the first thing that needs sorting,but that will never happen.IMO. You only have to look at Godfrey he is happy running all the amateur meetings all through the year generating income “stuff the rest of them” I’m all right attitude.

[ch958]

i notice the idea to change the sports name - what could that be? It is a bleeding nuisance that the Americans use the name for a different sport altogether. 

 

[Humphrey Appleby]

23 minutes ago, Fromafar said:

 Independent Body is the the first thing that needs sorting,but that will never happen.

You need to separate the concept of a body independent from an existing sanctioning organisation, and independent leadership running the sport. An independent body will solve nothing if the promoters are still making the day-to-day decisions, as that's really where the problem lies.

Those putting their money into the sport should absolutely be setting the directions - however good or bad they are at doing that - but how these directions should be implemented on a day-to-day basis should be left to an independent person or persons. 

This is quite different though, from a sanctioning body such as the FIM and ACU who have wider responsibilities for motor sport and may or not be acting in the best interests of the speedway.

[Fromafar]

1 hour ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

You need to separate the concept of a body independent from an existing sanctioning organisation, and independent leadership running the sport. An independent body will solve nothing if the promoters are still making the day-to-day decisions, as that's really where the problem lies.

Those putting their money into the sport should absolutely be setting the directions - however good or bad they are at doing that - but how these directions should be implemented on a day-to-day basis should be left to an independent person or persons. 

This is quite different though, from a sanctioning body such as the FIM and ACU who have wider responsibilities for motor sport and may or not be acting in the best interests of the speedway.

The people making the day to day decisions have proved they can’t see the problems in the sport.That’s why nothing will change for the better.It’s “their ball though” and nobody else is getting a look in.Personaly can’t see much of a revival happening in the sport.(happy to be proved wrong though).

 

[Humphrey Appleby]

27 minutes ago, Fromafar said:

The people making the day to day decisions have proved they can’t see the problems in the sport.That’s why nothing will change for the better.It’s “their ball though” and nobody else is getting a look in.Personaly can’t see much of a revival happening in the sport.(happy to be proved wrong though).

It's their ball because they put up the money and carry the losses. You can't realistically expect people without any financial stake in the sport to ultimately be calling the shots - no matter how badly it's being run - because there's no guarantee that them spending the money of others will actually do any better.

The sad reality is that speedway has such a poor demographic and has fallen so far in public consciousness that no serious administrator, marketer or financier would want to have anything to do with it, even if the sport could afford them. The sport has dug itself into a hole - partly although not totally of its own making - and it's very difficult to see how it can dig itself out. 

What should happen though, is that the promoters set the framework and underlying conditions for running the sport each year (or ideally over a longer period), and then an independent Commissioner or Commission is responsible for implementing that. It's the way most serious sports have gone in recent years, and ideally a commission would also include independent directors with marketing, finance and legal skills. However, speedway is too impoverished and sadly Mickey Mouse for that to happen in any serious way. 

Edited December 2, 2020 by Humphrey Appleby

[Guest]

2 hours ago, ch958 said:

i notice the idea to change the sports name - what could that be? It is a bleeding nuisance that the Americans use the name for a different sport altogether. 

 

??? What American sport is that please?