MORE POLISH LEAGUE INTERFERENCE

[ray c]

On 11/4/2020 at 1:31 PM, Najjer said:

Admittedly his options were very limited in the Polish Extraleague and it doesn't have a direct impact on British Speedway, but Michael Jepsen Jensen is the first rider to say he will drop down to the Polish 1st Division so that he can then ride in Denmark and Sweden.

I'm not privvy to know what sort of money is being paid in Sweden, but I would assume it would be a straight shootout between Britain and Sweden for the likes of Holder and Lidsey.

yes agree the uk may have more meetings than sweden . but how does the money work out in comparison .plus the fact will covid stop us having a full season in the uk 

[Najjer]

3 hours ago, ray c said:

yes agree the uk may have more meetings than sweden . but how does the money work out in comparison .plus the fact will covid stop us having a full season in the uk 

The thing in Britain’s favour for riders like Doyle is that they like to be racing lots. Doyle might be willing to take a financial hit on his league income by choosing Britain over Sweden in a bid to get back to the top of the Grand Prix standings by riding regularly throughout the week.

Seen as he is based in the UK, cutting down on travel to and from Sweden might make sense for him.

[MARK246]

14 hours ago, Daniel Smith said:

If Corona os still lingering around the world, Doyle won't be at Swindon

Doyle's quoted statement in the local paper, "if British speedway starts in spring he will ride " suggests if Sweden starts first he will ride there instead 

[PHILIPRISING]

16 hours ago, MARK246 said:

Doyle's quoted statement in the local paper, "if British speedway starts in spring he will ride " suggests if Sweden starts first he will ride there instead 

WOULD not be my interpretation ... there are many reasons why Jason would put England ahead of Sweden as long as there was racing here

[IainB]

As is always the case the power sits with the riders, if they choose to use it collectively. Poland seem to try something like this every year but always have to bow to the strength of the riders, they maybe able to make the rule attractive for the big polish hitters like Zmarzlik, Janowski, Dudek etc. But as we've seen this last season if your face doesn't fit for whatever reason you're very quickly thrown on the scrap heap, Batch, Bewley, KK, Kurtz etc. Can't see the riders of this class signing up to these rules unless they're guaranteed a fixed income retainer

[HGould]

1 hour ago, iainb said:

As is always the case the power sits with the riders, if they choose to use it collectively. Poland seem to try something like this every year but always have to bow to the strength of the riders, they maybe able to make the rule attractive for the big polish hitters like Zmarzlik, Janowski, Dudek etc. But as we've seen this last season if your face doesn't fit for whatever reason you're very quickly thrown on the scrap heap, Batch, Bewley, KK, Kurtz etc. Can't see the riders of this class signing up to these rules unless they're guaranteed a fixed income retainer

Totally agree.

Pay rates in D1 and D2 (the tiers below) are a fraction of Extraleague (Top Tier) and chronic history of late and non payment.

So do you have 4-5 rides a week in Polish D2 or probably 20 rides a week if doubling up UK and riding in Sweden or Denmark?

Those in D1/D2 in Poland - especially D2 in Poland may be better off and certainly get more meetings and rides by doubling up in UK and riding in Sweden and likely get paid too.

 

[racers and royals]

1 hour ago, HGould said:

Totally agree.

Pay rates in D1 and D2 (the tiers below) are a fraction of Extraleague (Top Tier) and chronic history of late and non payment.

So do you have 4-5 rides a week in Polish D2 or probably 20 rides a week if doubling up UK and riding in Sweden or Denmark?

Those in D1/D2 in Poland - especially D2 in Poland may be better off and certainly get more meetings and rides by doubling up in UK and riding in Sweden and likely get paid too.

 

Seeing that the rule is only an Extraleague rule and doesn`t effect the Polish Div 1 and 2 - not sure what your point is ?

[SteveLyric2]

Why did the  Polish Extraleague step back from this ruling previously?  Was it rider pressure? Was it pressure from FIM? Or was it a realisation that it wouldn't help speedway worldwide ie its no good being so  strong that you continually win everything in sight to the detriment of other country's leagues.

[Najjer]

This will tip some of you over the edge - they’ve actually said that the current new ruling is 2 leagues including the Polish league, but the eventual plan within a few years will be to reduce that solely to competing in the Polish league and Grand Prix.

[Ben91]

This goes to show that short sighted thinking is a sport wide issue and not just a British Speedway thing. If Poland want to monopolise the sport, before long it will become a Polish only club and there won’t be a “World Championship” as such because the only people to the standard will be Poles. 

I could see advantages to riders only having one club if the other top leagues were strong as a Champions League style deal could happen. This hurts everyone long term though, even the Polish. 

[arnieg]

5 minutes ago, Ben91 said:

This goes to show that short sighted thinking is a sport wide issue and not just a British Speedway thing. If Poland want to monopolise the sport, before long it will become a Polish only club and there won’t be a “World Championship” as such because the only people to the standard will be Poles. 

I could see advantages to riders only having one club if the other top leagues were strong as a Champions League style deal could happen. This hurts everyone long term though, even the Polish. 

And that's exactly how British speedway behaved in the 1970s, which is one of the reasons we got to where we are now.

[Ben91]

4 minutes ago, arnieg said:

And that's exactly how British speedway behaved in the 1970s, which is one of the reasons we got to where we are now.

Nothing like learning from history is there...

[gazzac]

4 hours ago, Ben91 said:

This goes to show that short sighted thinking is a sport wide issue and not just a British Speedway thing. If Poland want to monopolise the sport, before long it will become a Polish only club and there won’t be a “World Championship” as such because the only people to the standard will be Poles. 

I could see advantages to riders only having one club if the other top leagues were strong as a Champions League style deal could happen. This hurts everyone long term though, even the Polish. 

Indeed, will become just the same as the Superbowl champions being claimed as world champions, a pointless claim.

[Daniel Smith]

5 hours ago, arnieg said:

And that's exactly how British speedway behaved in the 1970s, which is one of the reasons we got to where we are now.

Polish Speedway is very very different to British Speedway of the 70's.

Everything from then to now is nothing of the same. 

For a start, Speedway was a hobby compared to today. So much money from sponsorship, TV, etc today where then it was heavily reliant on people through the turnstiles. 

Polish Speedway, like Premier League football have proven they can continue & adapted to less or no fans in the grounds. 

People talk about Speedway in Poland as some sort of new phenomenon but it's been massive their since the 70's too. What they've managed to do is progress & adapt to fit each decade.

British Speedway's biggest & the only thing that's killed the sport here was the selling off of stadia to greyhounds, stockcars, rugby clubs etc. This single handedly set the decline. Whereas Poland have managed to keep & build new stadia for themselves. Yes we have Belle Vue but that has come at least 30 years to late. 

British Speedway stadia has gotten so bad they're places today's people just don't want to be.

[HGould]

5 minutes ago, Daniel Smith said:

Polish Speedway is very very different to British Speedway of the 70's.

Everything from then to now is nothing of the same. 

For a start, Speedway was a hobby compared to today. So much money from sponsorship, TV, etc today where then it was heavily reliant on people through the turnstiles. 

Polish Speedway, like Premier League football have proven they can continue & adapted to less or no fans in the grounds. 

People talk about Speedway in Poland as some sort of new phenomenon but it's been massive their since the 70's too. What they've managed to do is progress & adapt to fit each decade.

British Speedway's biggest & the only thing that's killed the sport here was the selling off of stadia to greyhounds, stockcars, rugby clubs etc. This single handedly set the decline. Whereas Poland have managed to keep & build new stadia for themselves. Yes we have Belle Vue but that has come at least 30 years to late. 

British Speedway stadia has gotten so bad they're places today's people just don't want to be.

I've rarely read anything so littered with inaccuracies and falsehoods.

The one thing Polish Speedway always had was passionate fans.

The one thing it didn't have in the 70s was money and financial clout. Quite the opposite, go and study Communism and the Fall of it in the Eastern bloc.

There was no free Press, free Media, you'd struggle to find any Polish rider with anything but a factory Jawa and black leathers well in to the Briggo Manger Olsen era.

When Zenon Plech was allowed to go on one of the Mauger Briggo Troupe Tours all he could take was his handlebars.

If you are about 15 you might think Polish Speedway is the greatest thing on the planet. It may be now but that's a very modern phenomenon as the old timers before the end of the Communist era around  1990 and the dozens upon dozens of riders still owed fortunes by  Polish Clubs up to the very recent past will testify...it was anything but the jewel in the crown.

New Polish stadia to are a very modern phenomenon. Most are expensive returns paid for by local politicians keen to get reelected

It's also the case in the UK that as many if not more speedway tracks were added to dog tracks, than the other way round and similarly most tracks round football or rugby pitches followed the ball sports.

Purpose built stadia and those where speedway were there first is the exception over the past 50 years and not the rule.

[Daniel Smith]

35 minutes ago, HGould said:

I've rarely read anything so littered with inaccuracies and falsehoods.

The one thing Polish Speedway always had was passionate fans.

The one thing it didn't have in the 70s was money and financial clout. Quite the opposite, go and study Communism and the Fall of it in the Eastern bloc.

There was no free Press, free Media, you'd struggle to find any Polish rider with anything but a factory Jawa and black leathers well in to the Briggo Manger Olsen era.

When Zenon Plech was allowed to go on one of the Mauger Briggo Troupe Tours all he could take was his handlebars.

If you are about 15 you might think Polish Speedway is the greatest thing on the planet. It may be now but that's a very modern phenomenon as the old timers before the end of the Communist era around  1990 and the dozens upon dozens of riders still owed fortunes by  Polish Clubs up to the very recent past will testify...it was anything but the jewel in the crown.

New Polish stadia to are a very modern phenomenon. Most are expensive returns paid for by local politicians keen to get reelected

It's also the case in the UK that as many if not more speedway tracks were added to dog tracks, than the other way round and similarly most tracks round football or rugby pitches followed the ball sports.

Purpose built stadia and those where speedway were there first is the exception over the past 50 years and not the rule.

Don't know how you got all of that out of what I've said. 

I neither said Polish Speedway was rich in the 70s, neither did I say anything about free press etc in that era. 70s Polish Speedway wasn't full of riches, but it was as is today full of spectators. It had, as it does today, have it's own stadia. 

I never even said EVERY track in British Speedway was owned by the Speedway but there was a significant number that were, now lost forever. 

Polish Speedway has gone from rags to riches, I've never said otherwise. What it's always done though is adapt & maintain the interest in the sport. Sometimes British Speedway has failed to do. 

Polish Speedway today bares no resemblance of British Speedway of the 70s - 80s what so ever. 

[Najjer]

15 hours ago, Ben91 said:

This goes to show that short sighted thinking is a sport wide issue and not just a British Speedway thing. If Poland want to monopolise the sport, before long it will become a Polish only club and there won’t be a “World Championship” as such because the only people to the standard will be Poles. 

I could see advantages to riders only having one club if the other top leagues were strong as a Champions League style deal could happen. This hurts everyone long term though, even the Polish. 

I’ve read this a few times and I fail to see the logic behind it harming the Polish league. It can only be good news for them but bad news for everyone else.

[Ben91]

9 hours ago, Najjer said:

I’ve read this a few times and I fail to see the logic behind it harming the Polish league. It can only be good news for them but bad news for everyone else.

It’s quite simple logic too. If Poland take the monopoly on the sport then ourselves, Denmark and Sweden will fall even further behind. Less fans means less future riders. A vicious circle which continues to get smaller. That means in 15-20 years a Grand Pix full of solely Polish riders with maybe the anomaly of a breakout natural talent from another nation (a Zagar, Vaculik etc.), but these anomalies will encompass the interest from the previously strong Speedway nations too. It no longer becomes a World Championship because the World is no longer interested, only the Polish. You and I might be interested still because we’re  already speedway fans but the next generation won’t be because they won’t have the same exposure to the sport here as have/had growing up.

Poland being the mega power closes the shop, if interest in the sport there wanes as as it continues to do here, for example, then the sport as a whole suffers. 

A slight tangent but look at darts, it was always a reasonably big concern in Britain, the sport has actively looked to increase its fan base abroad. That has led to more players from more countries, in turn leading to more interest, that means more tournaments in more countries, bigger sponsorship etc. A snowball effect. Whether you like the sport or not, darts is massive now in more countries than ever before. Speedway is currently doing the opposite.

Let’s not kid ourselves that the Poles want to have all of the pie for the good of the sport as a whole, they’re being selfish. As we can see from our own leagues, self-interest is one of the biggest flaws in Speedway moving forward. How it can then be seen as a good thing because it’s happening in Poland now too is short sighted. 

Edited November 10, 2020 by Ben91

[Hamish McRaker]

It is time for Britain and Denmark to work closely together now and even have a single top level league, even better if Sweden comes on board as well.

Obviuosly pandemics and Mink not withstanding

[iris123]

23 hours ago, Daniel Smith said:

. 

I never even said EVERY track in British Speedway was owned by the Speedway but there was a significant number that were, now lost forever. 

 

Have you got a dozen or so examples ?