Lefty Posted November 1, 2020 Report Share Posted November 1, 2020 2 hours ago, bruno said: Does seem barmy an event pulling in 2500 can run but an event pulling in a 1000 less cant Yow cor say 'barmy' they bay not underst'nd wot yow may'n. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray c Posted November 1, 2020 Report Share Posted November 1, 2020 8 hours ago, iainb said: Have you been? and a population of about 5 million cant compare Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 2, 2020 Report Share Posted November 2, 2020 Will there be one? ==== 2021 speedway season ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Najjer Posted November 2, 2020 Report Share Posted November 2, 2020 (edited) On 10/28/2020 at 9:46 AM, Ben91 said: If the plan is to run 2021 as 2020 then a huge opportunity to restructure the sport in a positive way has been missed. Absolutely. I've recently posted on the Sheffield thread, and just seen an article by Nicki Pedersen slamming the rules bought in in the Polish League which restricts riders in the Extraleague (Top Tier) to only compete in one other league. Riders in the 1st and 2nd Divsions (2nd and 3rd Tiers) can only ride in two other leagues. This will have a big effect on riders like Nicki Pedersen, Jason Doyle, Jaimon Lidsey, Jack Holder, Dan Bewley, Niels K Iversen, Robert Lambert, Rasmus Jensen etc who were planning to compete in our top division over here.... Watch this space as that one unfolds. Edited November 2, 2020 by Najjer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted November 2, 2020 Report Share Posted November 2, 2020 Yes. Saw a number of riders over the weekend looking for teams in 3 leagues, and they weren't looking at the UK....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted November 2, 2020 Report Share Posted November 2, 2020 I personally wouldn't care if we rode at Div2 level with one big league with more local riders invested in their home club. We are like many other sports now where the power lies elsewhere, e.g. ice hockey, basketball, etc who have to rely on British talent and people who frankly are no longer or never were good enough in the best leagues. A parallel could be drawn with MLS football which is very successful using USA talent and lesser talents from elsewhere. Its true that people like to watch big names but that's no longer possible so we must emphasise the team aspect more. It no longer makes sense to fly people from all over the place to ride in front of 1000 people, in football terms a non league crowd level. Do they fly strikers in? 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enotian Posted November 2, 2020 Report Share Posted November 2, 2020 2 hours ago, ch958 said: I personally wouldn't care if we rode at Div2 level with one big league with more local riders invested in their home club. We are like many other sports now where the power lies elsewhere, e.g. ice hockey, basketball, etc who have to rely on British talent and people who frankly are no longer or never were good enough in the best leagues. A parallel could be drawn with MLS football which is very successful using USA talent and lesser talents from elsewhere. Its true that people like to watch big names but that's no longer possible so we must emphasise the team aspect more. It no longer makes sense to fly people from all over the place to ride in front of 1000 people, in football terms a non league crowd level. Do they fly strikers in? totally agree one problem though. Doubling Up. Will/can the domestic riders settle for riding in one league only? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted November 2, 2020 Report Share Posted November 2, 2020 58 minutes ago, enotian said: totally agree one problem though. Doubling Up. Will/can the domestic riders settle for riding in one league only? twice as many meetings, the better iders who currently DU can score and earn well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben91 Posted November 2, 2020 Report Share Posted November 2, 2020 2 hours ago, enotian said: totally agree one problem though. Doubling Up. Will/can the domestic riders settle for riding in one league only? This is part of the problem. The sport is bigger than the riders, yet there seems to be the thought process that they are owed a living so can have two teams so they don’t have to get a proper job and race as a hobby. It’s time to put the fans first. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teaboy279 Posted November 2, 2020 Report Share Posted November 2, 2020 10 minutes ago, Ben91 said: This is part of the problem. The sport is bigger than the riders, yet there seems to be the thought process that they are owed a living so can have two teams so they don’t have to get a proper job and race as a hobby. It’s time to put the fans first. As spot on as it gets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWC Posted November 2, 2020 Report Share Posted November 2, 2020 12 minutes ago, Ben91 said: This is part of the problem. The sport is bigger than the riders, yet there seems to be the thought process that they are owed a living so can have two teams so they don’t have to get a proper job and race as a hobby. It’s time to put the fans first. Couldn’t agree more but a lot of riders will look at the sport rather differently if they couldn’t do it full time. I believe we are at the crossroads of the sport hastened by the pandemic in the U.K. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enotian Posted November 3, 2020 Report Share Posted November 3, 2020 23 hours ago, ch958 said: twice as many meetings, the better iders who currently DU can score and earn well they'd get less meetings though. if a home season has say 24 fixtures and you have two teams you have 48 home fixtures and the same away. only one home team and you only get to ride in half that. it's not quite that simple because currently teams face each other more than once home and away and that wouldn't be possible with one combined league of say 20 teams. 22 hours ago, Ben91 said: This is part of the problem. The sport is bigger than the riders, yet there seems to be the thought process that they are owed a living so can have two teams so they don’t have to get a proper job and race as a hobby. It’s time to put the fans first. i mostly agree, although would say they deserve to earn as much as possible for the risks they take (at their choice of course). but again the problem might be if riders walk away then how do you fill the teams. we're already talking about some not riding in the UK so if there was a 20 team league that's 140 riders needed. where do they all come from especially if some established riders decide they can't make it pay? without seriously diluting the standard? so whilst i don't like doubling up and like the sound of one big league it just might not be feasible. Doubling up for anyone was always a Pandora's box that should never have been opened. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben91 Posted November 3, 2020 Report Share Posted November 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, enotian said: i mostly agree, although would say they deserve to earn as much as possible for the risks they take (at their choice of course). but again the problem might be if riders walk away then how do you fill the teams. we're already talking about some not riding in the UK so if there was a 20 team league that's 140 riders needed. where do they all come from especially if some established riders decide they can't make it pay? without seriously diluting the standard? so whilst i don't like doubling up and like the sound of one big league it just might not be feasible. Doubling up for anyone was always a Pandora's box that should never have been opened. When it comes to payment it should be down to supply and demand. This is why footballers earn more exorbitant sums of money for example. Now I’m making some reasoned assumptions here but most clubs seem to struggle to make ends meet, of course there are costs other than rider wages but this suggests the demand for speedway isn’t there sadly. Something has to change, to stop clubs haemorrhaging money and to improve the product for fans. For me that starts with the sport going part-time. Some riders may walk away but not as many as we worry will. A lot will of course try and call the authorities bluff because they won’t want to get a real job or try and secure a ride abroad but if they love riding a Speedway bike they’ll have to get on with it. That of course means a watering down of the product but let’s be honest, the standard now isn’t that great anyway. A lot of the core fan base these days are those who will attend week in, week out regardless of who is riding. It’s a step backwards to move forwards in the mid to long term. If something doesn’t change soon the sport will die. Regardless of the pandemic clubs are falling by the wayside at an alarming rate and it is notoriously difficult to get the necessary permission to open a new track these days. Of course the fact that Speedway is a poor relation these days doesn’t help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topsoil Posted November 3, 2020 Report Share Posted November 3, 2020 On 11/2/2020 at 3:14 PM, Najjer said: Absolutely. I've recently posted on the Sheffield thread, and just seen an article by Nicki Pedersen slamming the rules bought in in the Polish League which restricts riders in the Extraleague (Top Tier) to only compete in one other league. Riders in the 1st and 2nd Divsions (2nd and 3rd Tiers) can only ride in two other leagues. This will have a big effect on riders like Nicki Pedersen, Jason Doyle, Jaimon Lidsey, Jack Holder, Dan Bewley, Niels K Iversen, Robert Lambert, Rasmus Jensen etc who were planning to compete in our top division over here.... Watch this space as that one unfolds. If Poland wants to do that, then I would look to adopt a policy where you concentrate on bringing through young home grown riders. I would then insist that it is a league wide policy that these riders sign a contract that says if they wanted to ride in Poland in the future the Polish club would have to pay a high buy out fee. Two can play that game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enotian Posted November 5, 2020 Report Share Posted November 5, 2020 On 11/3/2020 at 10:31 PM, topsoil said: If Poland wants to do that, then I would look to adopt a policy where you concentrate on bringing through young home grown riders. I would then insist that it is a league wide policy that these riders sign a contract that says if they wanted to ride in Poland in the future the Polish club would have to pay a high buy out fee. Two can play that game. and how long would that contract last??? currently they mostly last for 8 months of a season. speedway riders are self employed. I'd say the vast majority of people would work for the person who pays the most. add in that riding against the toughest competition helps you progress/stay at the top. It's just something else we have to learn to live with...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topsoil Posted November 5, 2020 Report Share Posted November 5, 2020 1 hour ago, enotian said: and how long would that contract last??? currently they mostly last for 8 months of a season. speedway riders are self employed. I'd say the vast majority of people would work for the person who pays the most. add in that riding against the toughest competition helps you progress/stay at the top. It's just something else we have to learn to live with...... It's a way of compensating clubs for bringing on young riders. Otherwise Polish clubs can just continually take away riders they want. You have to have some reward for developing talent if that's the way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teaboy279 Posted November 6, 2020 Report Share Posted November 6, 2020 10 hours ago, topsoil said: It's a way of compensating clubs for bringing on young riders. Otherwise Polish clubs can just continually take away riders they want. You have to have some reward for developing talent if that's the way to go. Tbf to Polish clubs, the amount of time, money and expertise invested in young Poles is immense. So its not like they hunt out young foreign prospects. Its the star names they poach away, but again. If you could earn 1500 a point plus 50,000 signing on fee vs 100 quid a point and a spares van voucher signing on fee. If you trained for years to become a store manager at McDonald's and then Burger King offer you ten times the amount, I would suggest 95 percent of people would see security for your kids over loyalty to the company that trained them, every day of the week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waytogo28 Posted November 6, 2020 Report Share Posted November 6, 2020 3 to 6 months after a safe vaccine is found ( to allow for it's distribution ) and that could mean - maybe August / Sept, but could also mean Easter 2022. I am not joking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Najjer Posted November 6, 2020 Report Share Posted November 6, 2020 On 11/2/2020 at 3:36 PM, geoff58 said: this has been tried before by the poles it's a clear restraint on a person to earn money /wage on employment rights we will wait to see how it unfolds ?? if all the non poles got together and said right we are not riding in poland we will ride in england/sweden/denamrk/germany = 4 xleagues surely that could make up the money for not riding in poland ???? but it's all if's and but's ?? let's hope a solution can be found ???? When riders are signing up and agreeing to contracts on Poland when it knowingly means they can only ride in 1 other league, how is that a restriction of trade? They have agreed to the rules in place by signing the contract. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityrebel Posted November 6, 2020 Report Share Posted November 6, 2020 4 hours ago, waytogo28 said: 3 to 6 months after a safe vaccine is found ( to allow for it's distribution ) and that could mean - maybe August / Sept, but could also mean Easter 2022. I am not joking. Hard to argue with that. It's definitely going to be a long haul. I can't see anyone being allowed into professional football grounds until next August. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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