2021 speedway season !

[mikebv]

13 hours ago, Najjer said:

When riders are signing up and agreeing to contracts on Poland when it knowingly means they can only ride in 1 other league, how is that a restriction of trade? They have agreed to the rules in place by signing the contract.

Spot on...

If I said to my window cleaner I will pay him 5 times his money to only do my house and one other, and not the other three houses around my cul de sac, he has a.choice..

The choice to agree to those stipulations, and match what he would earn by keeping his current deal with all five of us, but now by just doing one house....

Whilst at the same time tangibly adding to his earnings by doing one house more.

And also cutting down his workload to 40% of its current level and only having 40% of his current costs to pay.. 

Or he could decide to not do my house and do the other four, meaning he earns 20% less than now, and still has 80% of his current workload and costs to carry out and pay..

Hardly restraint of trade is it if he agrees to my contract stipulations...

And you would need to be a bit daft not to take the deal wouldnt you?

If some riders dont like what the deal is in Poland, then I am sure plenty of others will..

Edited November 7, 2020 by mikebv

[HenryW]

2 hours ago, geoff58 said:

ask pedersen then 

We know Nicki doesn't like what is in the contract, and I can understand why he doesn't like it, but that doesn't necessarily make it a restriction on trade.

He is still free to compete in any league in the World that he wants to, other than a Polish one. The Polish league isn't forcing him to skip those other leagues or telling teams there that they need to pay them for his services. They are just saying that if he wants the money they are offering, he can't race in so many leagues and risk injury so many times.

Maybe Nicki will choose not to sign an Ekstraliga contract for 2021. We shall see.

[iris123]

10 hours ago, HenryW said:

We know Nicki doesn't like what is in the contract, and I can understand why he doesn't like it, but that doesn't necessarily make it a restriction on trade.

He is still free to compete in any league in the World that he wants to, other than a Polish one. The Polish league isn't forcing him to skip those other leagues or telling teams there that they need to pay them for his services. They are just saying that if he wants the money they are offering, he can't race in so many leagues and risk injury so many times.

Maybe Nicki will choose not to sign an Ekstraliga contract for 2021. We shall see.

It is an issue that got a bit out of control in speedway, with riders doing maybe 5 different leagues, or more if you include the odd Russian or Italian appearance in the past

It is also an issue that has caused constant trouble in football with clubs that are paying massive wages losing their players because of international appearance injuries. And now recently cropped up again when players have been diagnosed with Covid whilst on international duty

[Noodles]

16 hours ago, mikebv said:

Spot on...

If I said to my window cleaner I will pay him 5 times his money to only do my house and one other, and not the other three houses around my cul de sac, he has a.choice..

The choice to agree to those stipulations, and match what he would earn by keeping his current deal with all five of us, but now by just doing one house....

Whilst at the same time tangibly adding to his earnings by doing one house more.

And also cutting down his workload to 40% of its current level and only having 40% of his current costs to pay.. 

Or he could decide to not do my house and do the other four, meaning he earns 20% less than now, and still has 80% of his current workload and costs to carry out and pay..

Hardly restraint of trade is it if he agrees to my contract stipulations...

And you would need to be a bit daft not to take the deal wouldnt you?

If some riders dont like what the deal is in Poland, then I am sure plenty of others will..

But at the moment you're already paying him 5 times his money while he's still cleaning the other 4 houses.

What you're really saying is I will still pay you 5 times the money but now you can only clean 2 houses, therefore reducing his current income. 

[martinmauger]

In this week's Speedway Star Alun Rossiter say they FIM should step in over Poland maybe flexing it's muscles a bit too much.  That said, at the risk of stating the probable obvious, I think the time has come for British Speedway to run with what it can afford, which if that means no GP-level riders, so be it.  When I began watching at Hull from 1974-on I was horrfied over the idea of a possible drop into the 2nd division, then the New National League, as division 1, or Brtish League speedway, and seeing world class stars week in-week out, was all that I knew.  From 1995 - 2005 in Hull it was divison 2 Premier League all the way, apart form the 1999 season, and you know what; it was still speedway.  If British Speedway isn't viable for the top riders and / or the BL can't afford them, then go with what we have, it'll still be speedway....

Edited November 7, 2020 by martinmauger
spelling x2

[Truro Robin]

19 hours ago, mikebv said:

Spot on...

If I said to my window cleaner I will pay him 5 times his money to only do my house and one other, and not the other three houses around my cul de sac, he has a.choice..

The choice to agree to those stipulations, and match what he would earn by keeping his current deal with all five of us, but now by just doing one house....

Whilst at the same time tangibly adding to his earnings by doing one house more.

And also cutting down his workload to 40% of its current level and only having 40% of his current costs to pay.. 

Or he could decide to not do my house and do the other four, meaning he earns 20% less than now, and still has 80% of his current workload and costs to carry out and pay..

Hardly restraint of trade is it if he agrees to my contract stipulations...

And you would need to be a bit daft not to take the deal wouldnt you?

If some riders dont like what the deal is in Poland, then I am sure plenty of others will..

Maybe I'm being a little naïve but I assumed that there would be more to being a speedway rider than "how much I can earn, for how little I have to ride". 

Surely there are a few that actually enjoy racing and would like to do as much as they can within reason.

The window cleaner analogy shouldn't completely apply.

[enotian]

3 hours ago, Noodles said:

But at the moment you're already paying him 5 times his money while he's still cleaning the other 4 houses.

What you're really saying is I will still pay you 5 times the money but now you can only clean 2 houses, therefore reducing his current income. 

true, but the point being made was that what the Polish League are doing is not restraint of trade. The riders can choose to earn less by only riding in Poland (plus one other league) or (possibly) even less by not riding in Poland but riding in 4 other leagues.

[enotian]

48 minutes ago, Truro Robin said:

Maybe I'm being a little naïve but I assumed that there would be more to being a speedway rider than "how much I can earn, for how little I have to ride". 

Surely there are a few that actually enjoy racing and would like to do as much as they can within reason.

The window cleaner analogy shouldn't completely apply.

I enjoy my job but I wouldn't do more of it for less money but you have a point.  I suppose we'll find out if riders start giving Poland a miss. Interesting to see what Jason Doyle does for example.

The trouble is that if you don't do Poland then you can do Britain, Sweden and bits and pieces elsewhere.  I think there's only really three substantial league programmes, Britain, Poland and Sweden.

Then factor in that the top riders want to ride in the toughest competition to ensure that they're competitive and it would seem unlikely that, even though they'd prefer to ride/earn more regularly, any of the top riders will give Poland a miss.

[enotian]

3 hours ago, martinmauger said:

In this week's Speedway Star Alun Rossiter say they FIM should step in over Poland maybe flexing it's muscles a bit too much.

I would imagine that the FIM prefer their SGP riders to be riding in less leagues. 

Don't suppose they'd ever endorse what the Poles are doing but I suspect they'll turn a blind eye. They'd only intervene if the Polish authorities actions were impacting on the SGP series.

I suspect you're correct and British speedway will have to learn to live without International stars.....      ....which, with a few notable exceptions, I thought it already was.

[enotian]

On 11/5/2020 at 10:36 PM, topsoil said:

It's a way of compensating clubs for bringing on young riders. Otherwise Polish clubs can just continually take away riders they want. You have to have some reward for developing talent if that's the way to go.

it is but my point was it's not possible to do it without signing riders to long term contracts.

and in all honesty do the British clubs actually develop any talent? I don't think any clubs spend a great deal in developing talent.  I don't think they can afford to. I'm not aware of any having a salaried dedicated youth coach, isn't it generally volunteers and parents who put the most effort in?  The clubs just provide the opportunity of track time, which is important but hardly an extensive training programme.

If there was an official training programme then I think you could demand that any young rider who signs up to be part of it has to ride in British speedway for a certain number of years or has to reimburse for the cost of training.

Not sure who funds the Poultec training but as I understand it youngsters have to pay to enter the British Youth Championship so I don't think many British riders will feel so indebted to British speedway that they would turn down the opportunity to ride in other leagues.

I think the BSPA are doing as much as they can nowadays and if that means more riders are getting opportunities overseas that's a good thing as long as they keep to conveyor belt going

 

[IainB]

15 hours ago, Truro Robin said:

Maybe I'm being a little naïve but I assumed that there would be more to being a speedway rider than "how much I can earn, for how little I have to ride". 

I think there maybe a Window Cleaning world championship and it's being televised on Eurosport next year 

[RS50]

30 minutes ago, iainb said:

I think there maybe a Window Cleaning world championship and it's being televised on Eurosport next year 

That would be a step up the ladder ☺️

[Najjer]

14 hours ago, enotian said:

it is but my point was it's not possible to do it without signing riders to long term contracts.

and in all honesty do the British clubs actually develop any talent? I don't think any clubs spend a great deal in developing talent.  I don't think they can afford to. I'm not aware of any having a salaried dedicated youth coach, isn't it generally volunteers and parents who put the most effort in?  The clubs just provide the opportunity of track time, which is important but hardly an extensive training programme.

If there was an official training programme then I think you could demand that any young rider who signs up to be part of it has to ride in British speedway for a certain number of years or has to reimburse for the cost of training.

Not sure who funds the Poultec training but as I understand it youngsters have to pay to enter the British Youth Championship so I don't think many British riders will feel so indebted to British speedway that they would turn down the opportunity to ride in other leagues.

I think the BSPA are doing as much as they can nowadays and if that means more riders are getting opportunities overseas that's a good thing as long as they keep to conveyor belt going

 

This is a really interesting point and pretty much bang on the money. It comes as no surprise or coindence when our current best riders in the world grew up in Australia or in Germany I believe in Woffinden and Lambert.

Gone are the days of a packed second half meeting and continuous training schools. It’s great there is the U15 championship and a few other youth rounds but it’s nowhere near enough. Nowadays when riders sign for a team over here, they rock up a few hours before, ride 4/5 races and then go home until the next time. The Poles are at training throughout the week, constantly on the bike and this is why they are light years ahead of us in development at that level. 

[topsoil]

2 minutes ago, Najjer said:

This is a really interesting point and pretty much bang on the money. It comes as no surprise or coindence when our current best riders in the world grew up in Australia or in Germany I believe in Woffinden and Lambert.

Gone are the days of a packed second half meeting and continuous training schools. It’s great there is the U15 championship and a few other youth rounds but it’s nowhere near enough. Nowadays when riders sign for a team over here, they rock up a few hours before, ride 4/5 races and then go home until the next time. The Poles are at training throughout the week, constantly on the bike and this is why they are light years ahead of us in development at that level. 

Polish clubs have the luxury of access to their facilities seven days a week, most British clubs have three hours a week and that's it. All it takes is a hold up for an accident and bang, there goes your second half. 

Can you imagine the reaction of local councils and residents if you applied to use tracks seven days a week over here? You only have to look at the trouble Kent have to tell you the answer.

[Najjer]

57 minutes ago, topsoil said:

Polish clubs have the luxury of access to their facilities seven days a week, most British clubs have three hours a week and that's it. All it takes is a hold up for an accident and bang, there goes your second half. 

Can you imagine the reaction of local councils and residents if you applied to use tracks seven days a week over here? You only have to look at the trouble Kent have to tell you the answer.

I know that and fully understand the reasons behind it. I am merely highlighting the issue as a comparison against the Poles

[Aces51]

I think we have two possibilities of running a full season next year. Either, a vaccine is available and a significant percentage of the population is vaccinated by the spring or, the tests that can provide a result within about half an hour are available and relatively cheap. The current project in Liverpool should provide some answers on the quick testing.

If a vaccine is not the immediate answer then quick testing would allow lots of hospitality, entertainment and sporting venues to test customers and allow all of those with negative results into the venue.

Currently, all is not going well with the virus in Poland, which may impact their plans. Their number of infections has risen a lot lately. Today the number of infections is 24,785 compared to 20,572 here and that with a population about 55% the size of the UK.

[enotian]

26 minutes ago, Aces51 said:

I think we have two possibilities of running a full season next year. Either, a vaccine is available and a significant percentage of the population is vaccinated by the spring or, the tests that can provide a result within about half an hour are available and relatively cheap. The current project in Liverpool should provide some answers on the quick testing.

If a vaccine is not the immediate answer then quick testing would allow lots of hospitality, entertainment and sporting venues to test customers and allow all of those with negative results into the venue.

Currently, all is not going well with the virus in Poland, which may impact their plans. Their number of infections has risen a lot lately. Today the number of infections is 24,785 compared to 20,572 here and that with a population about 55% the size of the UK.

Or the scientists identify why some people are more at risk of a life threatening reaction whilst others are not, so those genuinely at risk can be protected and the rest can re-intergrate back into society. Including enjoying the odd speedway meeting.

You make sensible suggestions.  Have you ever thought of becoming an MP.......

Regardless we're waiting for the Boffins to deliver........    they're currently James Sarjeant (had plenty of chances but still we all believe they can do it) but we need them to be Tai Woffinden.  Here's hoping.

[GWC]

17 hours ago, enotian said:

Or the scientists identify why some people are more at risk of a life threatening reaction whilst others are not, so those genuinely at risk can be protected and the rest can re-intergrate back into society. Including enjoying the odd speedway meeting.

You make sensible suggestions.  Have you ever thought of becoming an MP.......

Regardless we're waiting for the Boffins to deliver........    they're currently James Sarjeant (had plenty of chances but still we all believe they can do it) but we need them to be Tai Woffinden.  Here's hoping.

But to have a Woffinden we need a lot of Sargeants otherwise the sport will collapse at league level.

I watched Tai for 2 seasons at Rye House and he was so far ahead of the riders there at 16 you could tell he was going to be very good if not world class. Similarly with Peter Collins.

[iris123]

10 hours ago, geoff58 said:

with the announcement of  a possible vaccine today normality by spring ?? should be good news for 2021 ??? here's hoping 

According to a few experts on german tv last night, it is unlikely to be back to normal by Spring unfortunately

[IainB]

5 hours ago, iris123 said:

According to a few experts on german tv last night, it is unlikely to be back to normal by Spring unfortunately

How many doses have the Germans bought? We got 40m initially... mind you we've still got to balls up the distribution of it yet 

Edited November 10, 2020 by iainb