massive loss and wins at the same track in the same season

[Shrub]

Not really sure how to title this one! What I mean is what examples are there of meetings between two sides on the same track in the same season which have produced hugely opposite results. It came to mind when chatting to my Dad at the weekend, the conversation always turns to speedway and meetings we attended. He remembered from 1977 Belle Vue v Ipswich, KO Cup in early summer ending 59-19 to BV. The league match in September ended 26-52 (PC wasn't riding). Not quite so big a swing, the same two sides in 1984 league 55-23 to BV, six weeks later in the Cup Final 33-45 to Ipswich.

So a 40 point loss turned into a 26 point win. Are there any better? 

[chunky]

1 hour ago, Shrub said:

Not really sure how to title this one! What I mean is what examples are there of meetings between two sides on the same track in the same season which have produced hugely opposite results. It came to mind when chatting to my Dad at the weekend, the conversation always turns to speedway and meetings we attended. He remembered from 1977 Belle Vue v Ipswich, KO Cup in early summer ending 59-19 to BV. The league match in September ended 26-52 (PC wasn't riding). Not quite so big a swing, the same two sides in 1984 league 55-23 to BV, six weeks later in the Cup Final 33-45 to Ipswich.

So a 40 point loss turned into a 26 point win. Are there any better? 

Not quite like that, but one that still annoys me to this day...

1985 was our first year in the NL, and we drew Steve Shovlar's mob in the first round of the Cup. We won 40-38 at their place, and in the second leg at Plough Lane, we destroyed them 62-16.

When they came back later for the league match, they beat us 41-37 - a result that had a huge impact on our chances of winning the league. So, that was a 50-point swing...

[Tracy Bird]

1997 23rd April poole73 Eastbourne 17 el ko cup south, 28th May Poole 44 Eastbourne 46 el and 16 July Poole 44 eastbourne 46 el and 4th September Poole 43 Eastbourne 49 el ko cup final 1st leg.

[Shrub]

As an add on to the 1977 Belle Vue - Ipswich clashes, Tony Davey scored 0 from 4 in the first match and a 12 point maximum in the next! 

[waiheke1]

I have a feeling there was a massive swing BV v Wolves in 87. Aces putting on close to 60 in one clash and then losing in the next. Will check later.

[BOBBATH]

On 10/6/2020 at 9:12 PM, chunky said:

Not quite like that, but one that still annoys me to this day...

1985 was our first year in the NL, and we drew Steve Shovlar's mob in the first round of the Cup. We won 40-38 at their place, and in the second leg at Plough Lane, we destroyed them 62-16.

When they came back later for the league match, they beat us 41-37 - a result that had a huge impact on our chances of winning the league. So, that was a 50-point swing...

What was Steve Shovlar's mob-who was he???

[chunky]

1 minute ago, BOBBATH said:

What was Steve Shovlar's mob-who was he???

Steve is one of the most frequent - and controversial - posters on the BSF. He is a Poole fan...

[steve roberts]

12 minutes ago, chunky said:

Steve is one of the most frequent - and controversial - posters on the BSF. He is a Poole fan...

I, like many others, used to have many a run in with him when he used to comment on the old Oxford forum. I met him once at Cowley but he wouldn't remember that...

Edited October 10, 2020 by steve roberts

[chunky]

2 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

I, like many others, used to have many a run in with him when he used to comment on the old Oxford forum. I met him once at Cowley but he wouldn't remember that...

We've ALL had run-ins with Shov on these forums, but he's really not a bad guy. We have met also.

It's just tough discussing things sometimes because he is always right! Particularly when I'M always right... 

[Red Flag]

1 hour ago, waiheke1 said:

I have a feeling there was a massive swing BV v Wolves in 87. Aces putting on close to 60 in one clash and then losing in the next. Will check later.

Sam was stuck in Germany due to air strikes for the first one, Lars Munkedal total hero in second one

[steve roberts]

9 hours ago, chunky said:

We've ALL had run-ins with Shov on these forums, but he's really not a bad guy. We have met also.

It's just tough discussing things sometimes because he is always right! Particularly when I'M always right... 

Yes I saw thru' his 'veneer' many years ago.

[steve roberts]

Oxford, as was the norm, during the early middle seventies were programmed to ride at Brandon the first match of the season in a league encounter...before they had ridden at home. 1975 was particularly irksome as the the Ole Olsen "will he or won't he ride for Oxford" saga continued into the early season and there was the bizzare situation when John Davis guest rode for himself at Coventry. The "Rebels" lost heavily (not surprisingly) 52-26 but returned later in the seaon in the Knock Out Cup to win 45-33 and then to hammer them 60-18 in the return leg at Cowley...sweet revenge indeed!

Edited October 12, 2020 by steve roberts

[Shrub]

11 hours ago, steve roberts said:

Oxford, as was the norm, during the early middle seventies were programmed to ride at Brandon the first match of the season in a league encounter...before they had ridden at home. 1975 was particularly irksome as the the Ole Olsen "will he or won't he ride for Oxford" saga continued into the early season and there was the bizzare situation when John Davis guest rode for himself at Coventry. The "Rebels" lost heavily (not surprisingly) 52-26 but returned later in the seaon in the Knock Out Cup to win 45-33 and then to hammer them 60-18 in the return leg at Cowley...sweet revenge indeed!

In the 1975 season Ipswich had their first two or three home matches rained or snowed off and eventually started the season cold with a league match against Oxford, who on paper weren't great shakes at Foxhall and were usually on the wrong end of a 50 something to twenty something scoreline. It was a wet night and Oxford, who I think had a few matches already under their belts, lead from the start and went into heat 13 37-35 up. Shrimp Davey, just the fella for such occasions and an out of touch Billy Sanders who I think had only scored three up to then, against the in form Dag Lovaas and Richard Hellsen. As expected Shrimp shot from the gate and was gone, but Lovaas and Hellsen team rode Sanders out until the last bend when Billy dived under one and rounded the other to bring the house down. I still remember the roar of the crowd! And Ipswich won the league by one point. What a difference that last bend by Billy made!

[steve roberts]

12 hours ago, Shrub said:

In the 1975 season Ipswich had their first two or three home matches rained or snowed off and eventually started the season cold with a league match against Oxford, who on paper weren't great shakes at Foxhall and were usually on the wrong end of a 50 something to twenty something scoreline. It was a wet night and Oxford, who I think had a few matches already under their belts, lead from the start and went into heat 13 37-35 up. Shrimp Davey, just the fella for such occasions and an out of touch Billy Sanders who I think had only scored three up to then, against the in form Dag Lovaas and Richard Hellsen. As expected Shrimp shot from the gate and was gone, but Lovaas and Hellsen team rode Sanders out until the last bend when Billy dived under one and rounded the other to bring the house down. I still remember the roar of the crowd! And Ipswich won the league by one point. What a difference that last bend by Billy made!

If I recall it was a robust challenge made by Billy...a 'do or die' effort. However we got the better of the "Witches" at Cowley despite the over enthusiasm of Trevor Jones!

I've just located a quote in the Oxford programme notes dated 17th April 1975 -

"...Roger (Oxford Team Manager) was very angry at the tactics of one of the Ipswich riders in that final heat, who, he claims, gave Dag and Rickard a shove that a rugby forward would have been proud of, and protested strongly to the referee".

Edited October 13, 2020 by steve roberts

[Robbie B]

11 May 1979 Hackney 22, Wimbledon 56 (new BL away win record)

Hackney (Finn Thomsen 7, Barry Thomas 7, Sean Willmott 3+1, Bo Petersen 3, Ted Hubbard 2+1, Bobby McNeil 0, Vic Harding 0)

Wimbledon (Edward Jancarz 12 max, Roger Johns 9+3 paid max, Larry Ross 11, Stefan Salomonsson 8+3, Rudy Muts 7+2, Colin Richardson 7, Patrick Pawson 2)

The following season on 23 May 1980 the scores were Hackney 56, Wimbledon 22

Hackney (Bo Petersen 12 max, Zenon Plech 11+1 paid max, Finn Thomsen 10+1, Barry Thomas 6+2, Roman Jankowski 6+2, Sean Willmott 7, Keith White 6)

Wimbledon (Edward Jancarz 9, Larry Ross 7, Roger Johns 5, Colin Richardson 1, Stefan Salomonsson 0, Mick Hines 0, Dave Brewer 0)

Edited October 13, 2020 by Robbie B

[Chadster]

5 hours ago, Robbie B said:

11 May 1979 Hackney 22, Wimbledon 56 (new BL away win record)

Hackney (Finn Thomsen 7, Barry Thomas 7, Sean Willmott 3+1, Bo Petersen 3, Ted Hubbard 2+1, Bobby McNeil 0, Vic Harding 0)

Wimbledon (Edward Jancarz 12 max, Roger Johns 9+3 paid max, Larry Ross 11, Stefan Salomonsson 8+3, Rudy Muts 7+2, Colin Richardson 7, Patrick Pawson 2)

The following season on 23 May 1980 the scores were Hackney 56, Wimbledon 22

Hackney (Bo Petersen 12 max, Zenon Plech 11+1 paid max, Finn Thomsen 10+1, Barry Thomas 6+2, Roman Jankowski 6+2, Sean Willmott 7, Keith White 6)

Wimbledon (Edward Jancarz 9, Larry Ross 7, Roger Johns 5, Colin Richardson 1, Stefan Salomonsson 0, Mick Hines 0, Dave Brewer 0)

Shows how bad Hackney were that Patrick Pawson got two points! I was at the the match the following year. Cyril Maidment complained that the announcer was mispronouncing Jancarz's name. Needless to say he got a very dusty response..

[Shrub]

21 hours ago, steve roberts said:

If I recall it was a robust challenge made by Billy...a 'do or die' effort. However we got the better of the "Witches" at Cowley despite the over enthusiasm of Trevor Jones!

I've just located a quote in the Oxford programme notes dated 17th April 1975 -

"...Roger (Oxford Team Manager) was very angry at the tactics of one of the Ipswich riders in that final heat, who, he claims, gave Dag and Rickard a shove that a rugby forward would have been proud of, and protested strongly to the referee".

Nah, just a sublime move, I'm sure he had at least one eye open! From memory (it was 45 years ago, bloody hell!) it was a typical move with a few elbows that you saw most weeks up and down the country and I don't recall the Oxford pair complaining or having words with Billy afterwards. Most teams had one or two in their side who loved that side of the racing, Billy was always up for a bit of that and the other Witch handy with his elbows at that time was Ted Howgego. Ted had the most ungainly style of any rider I've seen, was difficult to pass as no one knew where he was going, least of all Ted and was pretty fearless.

Going back to the Ipswich v Oxford match Gordon Kennett let you down, usually very good round Foxhall but failing to score that night but a real thorn in the Witches side was John Dews, who I think scored double figures.

[steve roberts]

1 hour ago, Shrub said:

Nah, just a sublime move, I'm sure he had at least one eye open! From memory (it was 45 years ago, bloody hell!) it was a typical move with a few elbows that you saw most weeks up and down the country and I don't recall the Oxford pair complaining or having words with Billy afterwards. Most teams had one or two in their side who loved that side of the racing, Billy was always up for a bit of that and the other Witch handy with his elbows at that time was Ted Howgego. Ted had the most ungainly style of any rider I've seen, was difficult to pass as no one knew where he was going, least of all Ted and was pretty fearless.

Going back to the Ipswich v Oxford match Gordon Kennett let you down, usually very good round Foxhall but failing to score that night but a real thorn in the Witches side was John Dews, who I think scored double figures.

John Dews was one of my favourites. It was John who kept Billy Sanders at the back in the last heat during the return fixture at Cowley thus earning the "Rebels" a win...payback time!

Great memories!

Edited October 13, 2020 by steve roberts

[Terry]

9 hours ago, Robbie B said:

11 May 1979 Hackney 22, Wimbledon 56 (new BL away win record)

Hackney (Finn Thomsen 7, Barry Thomas 7, Sean Willmott 3+1, Bo Petersen 3, Ted Hubbard 2+1, Bobby McNeil 0, Vic Harding 0)

Wimbledon (Edward Jancarz 12 max, Roger Johns 9+3 paid max, Larry Ross 11, Stefan Salomonsson 8+3, Rudy Muts 7+2, Colin Richardson 7, Patrick Pawson 2)

The following season on 23 May 1980 the scores were Hackney 56, Wimbledon 22

Hackney (Bo Petersen 12 max, Zenon Plech 11+1 paid max, Finn Thomsen 10+1, Barry Thomas 6+2, Roman Jankowski 6+2, Sean Willmott 7, Keith White 6)

Wimbledon (Edward Jancarz 9, Larry Ross 7, Roger Johns 5, Colin Richardson 1, Stefan Salomonsson 0, Mick Hines 0, Dave Brewer 0)

That 79 match was the only time I recall sections of the crowd turning on Len Silver. It was a depressing year all round, (losing Vic, finishing bottom.) Zenon's World Final performance being the only high point.

Weirdly enough, although the Dons did the double over us that year we won the London Cup, and they won it the following year even though the Hawks did the double over them.

[steve roberts]

7 hours ago, Terry said:

That 79 match was the only time I recall sections of the crowd turning on Len Silver. It was a depressing year all round, (losing Vic, finishing bottom.) Zenon's World Final performance being the only high point.

Weirdly enough, although the Dons did the double over us that year we won the London Cup, and they won it the following year even though the Hawks did the double over them.

Recall King's Lynn winning at Hackney 57-20 in early 1980 and all appeared 'doom and gloom' only for the "Hawks" to turn their season round and nearly pulling off the championship.