Briggs, Fundin, Mauger , Crump, Rickardsson, Roll of honour.

[BL65]

2 hours ago, norbold said:

Just out of interest, after mentioning Peter Jackson's averages on another thread, I thought I'd just take a look at who topped the averages in the pre-War years (1933-1939).

1933: Jack Parker 10.33, 1934: Vic Huxley: 10.31, 1935: Bluey Wilkinson 10.57, 1936: Jack Parker 10.27, 1937: Jack Milne 11.09, 1938: Jack Milne 10.96, 1939: Cordy Milne 11.50 (The 1939 season was unfinished of course).

1929: Jack Parker (Coventry - Southern League) 10.76, Arthur Jervis (Manchester White City - Northern League) 10.00.
1930: Ginger Lees (Liverpool - Northern) 10.89, Vic Huxley (Harringay - Southern) 10.55. (Jack Parker, Coventry, 10.34).
1931: Eric Langton (Belle Vue - Northern) 11.28, Dick Case (Wimbledon - Southern) 10.14. (Jack Parker, Southampton, 10.02).
1932: Dick Case (Wimbledon - National League) 10.42. (Jack Parker, Clapton, 8.80 - Southampton team moved to Clapton).

[Sidney the robin]

1 hour ago, BL65 said:

1929: Jack Parker (Coventry - Southern League) 10.76, Arthur Jervis (Manchester White City - Northern League) 10.00.
1930: Ginger Lees (Liverpool - Northern) 10.89, Vic Huxley (Harringay - Southern) 10.55. (Jack Parker, Coventry, 10.34).
1931: Eric Langton (Belle Vue - Northern) 11.28, Dick Case (Wimbledon - Southern) 10.14. (Jack Parker, Southampton, 10.02).
1932: Dick Case (Wimbledon - National League) 10.42. (Jack Parker, Clapton, 8.80 - Southampton team moved to Clapton).

I wonder what Langton's  average was at Hyde Rd ?he often gets forgotten.

[Split]

24 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

I wonder what Langton's  average was at Hyde Rd ?he often gets forgotten.

He was a member of the Belle Vue team that won the League Championship six times in seven years in the 1930s. After retiring from the sport he returned to Belle Vue in May 1946 scoring a full maximum in his first match back and averaging 10.93 in his comeback season. Remarkable!

[Sidney the robin]

38 minutes ago, Split said:

He was a member of the Belle Vue team that won the League Championship six times in seven years in the 1930s. After retiring from the sport he returned to Belle Vue in May 1946 scoring a full maximum in his first match back and averaging 10.93 in his comeback season. Remarkable!

His run off with Van Praag in the 1936 world final was a strange affair.!!!

[Split]

3 hours ago, Sidney the robin said:

His run off with Van Praag in the 1936 world final was a strange affair.!!!

Indeed!

 

[BOBBATH]

On 9/27/2020 at 5:20 PM, norbold said:

About a month or so after my book, Speedway in London, came out, I looked in on Sportspages (a specialist sports book shop) In Tottenham Court Road to see how it was selling. They told me that it was going quite well and that Mark Loram had been in and signed all the copies they had, which had helped sales. I had no idea he had done this. We never spoke about it, he just did it. I thought, as Terry said, what a great bloke. There was nothing in it for him; it just helped me. 

Last time I was in London, it looked like Sportspages had closed down, was it a victim of the internet and wikipaedia do you think? Has it ever reopened?

[BOBBATH]

On 10/4/2020 at 2:39 PM, Sidney the robin said:

Great post i  personaly think Erik was more consistent than many think and he would of always been there in amongst it.The Hans/Erik years was a strange period really because Penhall, Lee,Carter, Sanders,Sigalos all disappeared  off the scene because of differing reasons leaving a huge void and opportunity.Going to Oxford was the best move Hans ever made and yes he should of won at least six titles great rider certainly.

Just off the point a bit. I left England 52 years ago and I'm interested in how the English language is a flexible, living and evolving language and words are used in a different context now-e.g the meaning of the word "gay"  which has changed meaning in all English speaking countries. I think I've noticed one change that hasn't come over here. This is the use of the word "of " instead of "have" e.g. in Terry's post he uses the word "of"instead of "have" in the first sentence as in "he would of always" etc. This is not meant to be a criticism Terry and I have seen this usage in other places including British newspapers. Are these two words now basically interchangeable on the your side of the pond? I have noticed other examples of this phenomon but can't think of any at the moment-although when I left England the use of the word "bottle"for courage was not widespread and the first time I saw it I had to ask my father-in-law what it meant!!

[chunky]

1 hour ago, BOBBATH said:

This is the use of the word "of " instead of "have" e.g. in Terry's post he uses the word "of"instead of "have" in the first sentence as in "he would of always" etc. This is not meant to be a criticism Terry and I have seen this usage in other places including British newspapers. Are these two words now basically interchangeable on the your side of the pond? I have noticed other examples of this phenomon but can't think of any at the moment-although when I left England the use of the word "bottle"for courage was not widespread and the first time I saw it I had to ask my father-in-law what it meant!!

Actually, they are not interchangeable, Bob. People have always done that, but it's just more prevalent now. It's based on how people interpret words when they hear the contractions "would've", "could've", and "should've". They interpret it as "could OF" etc.

Think about the usage, based on questions and answers:

Q - Have you done what I asked?

A - Sorry, I should have (should've).

It's a direct response. The question "OF you done what I asked" doesn't make any sense.

It's the same these days with people not understanding the difference between "then" and "than"; the two have totally different meanings, and are not interchangeable.

Referring to the second part of your comment, there were lots of words not in common usage when you left the UK, that are now! "Bottle" is one that still means nothing to North Americans, as a "bottle job" to them means you've coloured your hair!

[norbold]

Re- of and have, I agree with chunky. I know languages evolve over time, but the use of of instead of have is just plain wrong.

As far as the use of the word bottle goes, it has been in common usage at least in the East End for as long as I can remember. Back in the 1960s, when a rider was behind in a race and packed up, we often used to write in the programme "bottle gone" instead of e/f or d.n.f.

[norbold]

9 hours ago, Sidney the robin said:

I wonder what Langton's  average was at Hyde Rd ?he often gets forgotten.

1933: 9.79; 1934: 10.26; 1935: 8.74; 1936: 9.95; 1937: 10.73; 1938: 8.13; 1939: 10.44; 1946: 11.57

Those are Langton's home averages only.

[Sidney the robin]

6 hours ago, norbold said:

1933: 9.79; 1934: 10.26; 1935: 8.74; 1936: 9.95; 1937: 10.73; 1938: 8.13; 1939: 10.44; 1946: 11.57

Those are Langton's home averages only.

Great figures strange how when his average had dipped the following year he often put a point or 1.5 on his figure again.Langton and the New Zealander Ron Johnson are two great riders who often get forgotten.

[salty]

11 hours ago, BOBBATH said:

Last time I was in London, it looked like Sportspages had closed down, was it a victim of the internet and wikipaedia do you think? Has it ever reopened?

Sportspages closed its doors in London about 15 years ago. The one in Manchester, I believe closed following the Arndale bomb. 

Pretty sure the shop owner John Gaustad passed away a couple of years ago.

I spent many an hour browsing away in the shop in London. 

Edit. Just checked my copy of "Speedway in London", which was purchased from Sportspages, and indeed it is autographed by Mark Loram.

Edited October 8, 2020 by salty

[Guest compost]

8 hours ago, norbold said:

1933: 9.79; 1934: 10.26; 1935: 8.74; 1936: 9.95; 1937: 10.73; 1938: 8.13; 1939: 10.44; 1946: 11.57

Those are Langton's home averages only.

In 1933 the heat point scoring was 4-2-1-0 (as it was in 1929).  Do you know if the 1933 average figure above is an actual based on 4-2-1-0 or has it been 'corrected' to a 3-2-1-0 system (hope that makes sense) ?

[norbold]

12 minutes ago, compost said:

In 1933 the heat point scoring was 4-2-1-0 (as it was in 1929).  Do you know if the 1933 average figure above is an actual based on 4-2-1-0 or has it been 'corrected' to a 3-2-1-0 system (hope that makes sense) ?

Yes, sorry, I meant to say, but it was getting late! It has been converted to 3-2-1.

Edited October 8, 2020 by norbold

[Split]

3 hours ago, Sidney the robin said:

Great figures strange how when his average had dipped the following year he often put a point or 1.5 on his figure again.Langton and the New Zealander Ron Johnson are two great riders who often get forgotten.

Here are details of Ron Johnston's World Final appearances. Impressive!

• 1955 -  London, Wembley Stadium - 12th - 6pts
• 1957 -  London, Wembley Stadium - 6th - 9pts
• 1958 -  London, Wembley Stadium - 8th - 8pts
• 1960 -  London, Wembley Stadium - 5th - 10pts

 

[norbold]

Just for completeness, here are the rest of the top averages in Peter Jackson's post-War stats:

• 1946: Eric Langton 11.13
• 1947: Vic Duggan 11.75
• 1948: Vic Duggan 11.47
• 1949: Vic Duggan 10.65
• 1950: Graham Warren 10.45
• 1951: Aub Lawson 10.31
• 1952: Ronnie Moore 11.36
• 1953: Jack Young 10.61
• 1954: Ronnie Moore 10.59
• 1955: Ronnie Moore 10.86
• 1956: Barry Briggs 10.53
• 1957: Peter Craven 11.14

 

[BOBBATH]

15 hours ago, chunky said:

Actually, they are not interchangeable, Bob. People have always done that, but it's just more prevalent now. It's based on how people interpret words when they hear the contractions "would've", "could've", and "should've". They interpret it as "could OF" etc.

Think about the usage, based on questions and answers:

Q - Have you done what I asked?

A - Sorry, I should have (should've).

It's a direct response. The question "OF you done what I asked" doesn't make any sense.

It's the same these days with people not understanding the difference between "then" and "than"; the two have totally different meanings, and are not interchangeable.

Referring to the second part of your comment, there were lots of words not in common usage when you left the UK, that are now! "Bottle" is one that still means nothing to North Americans, as a "bottle job" to them means you've coloured your hair!

Hi chunky, thanks for taking the trouble to answer this, good explanation that helped my understanding.

[BOBBATH]

13 hours ago, norbold said:

Re- of and have, I agree with chunky. I know languages evolve over time, but the use of of instead of have is just plain wrong.

As far as the use of the word bottle goes, it has been in common usage at least in the East End for as long as I can remember. Back in the 1960s, when a rider was behind in a race and packed up, we often used to write in the programme "bottle gone" instead of e/f or d.n.f.

Also thank you for your answer too Norbold.

[Split]

14 hours ago, norbold said:

Re- of and have, I agree with chunky. I know languages evolve over time, but the use of of instead of have is just plain wrong.

As far as the use of the word bottle goes, it has been in common usage at least in the East End for as long as I can remember. Back in the 1960s, when a rider was behind in a race and packed up, we often used to write in the programme "bottle gone" instead of e/f or d.n.f.

In German the word Flasche meaning bottle is also slang for an idiot.

[iris123]

7 hours ago, salty said:

Sportspages closed its doors in London about 15 years ago. The one in Manchester, I believe closed following the Arndale bomb. 

Pretty sure the shop owner John Gaustad passed away a couple of years ago.

I spent many an hour browsing away in the shop in London. 

Edit. Just checked my copy of "Speedway in London", which was purchased from Sportspages, and indeed it is autographed by Mark Loram.

Used to be a regular in the shop. Didn't work that far away at one time. The one book I sort of regret never buying, was  a history of Stamford Bridge. Of course mostly about Chelsea football, but did have a section on the speedway. I just couldn't bring myself to buy what was mainly a Chelsea book