Briggs, Fundin, Mauger , Crump, Rickardsson, Roll of honour.

[Sidney the robin]

Barry Briggs won the title 4 times was on the rostrum 6 times.            -            Ove Fundin won the title 5 times was on the rostrum 6 times.                    - Ivan Mauger won the title six times  was on the rostrum 4 times.         - Jason Crump won the title 3 times was placed  7 times on the rostrum.            - Rickardsson  won the title six times  was placed  5 times on the rostrum  all great riders terrific records.Crump to finish in the top three riders in the world ten years on the bounce is some achievement.

[The White Knight]

Interesting set of figures those Sid. They really were great Riders, weren't they?

Good Post. 

[steve roberts]

What about Hans? Four wins, six seconds and two thirds by my reckoning?

[andout]

3 hours ago, Sidney the robin said:

Barry Briggs won the title 4 times was on the rostrum 6 times.            -            Ove Fundin won the title 5 times was on the rostrum 6 times.                    - Ivan Mauger won the title six times  was on the rostrum 4 times.         - Jason Crump won the title 3 times was placed  7 times on the rostrum.            - Rickardsson  won the title six times  was placed  5 times on the rostrum  all great riders terrific records.Crump to finish in the top three riders in the world ten years on the bounce is some achievement.

Think Fundin did 10 years on the bounce too!!

[chunky]

1 hour ago, andout said:

Think Fundin did 10 years on the bounce too!!

Yes he did...

[Sidney the robin]

8 hours ago, steve roberts said:

What about Hans? Four wins, six seconds and two thirds by my reckoning?

Spot on in the top five all time greats Steve.

Edited September 25, 2020 by Sidney the robin

[Sidney the robin]

9 hours ago, andout said:

Think Fundin did 10 years on the bounce too!!

Yes  and Ove was winner or placed 11 times out of 12 seasons truelly remarkable. Was it easier for Crump to do it (i.e.) Qualifying every year wildcards (etc) don't know hypothetical really Fundin is a true icon of our sport.

Edited September 25, 2020 by Sidney the robin

[r8gdp]

Fundin on the podium for 10 years on the trot , missed 1966  was banned  back in 1967 to win it a bloody remarkable run of consistency 

[OveFundinFan]

Ove Fundin......... simply the best.

[Ovalman]

If I had to pick one, Ove would just pip Ivan. Hans and Briggo right up there as best I've seen.

[steve roberts]

12 hours ago, auntie doris said:

If I had to pick one, Ove would just pip Ivan. Hans and Briggo right up there as best I've seen.

I would certainly agree with your choices except I would place Ivan at number one. Only saw Ove ride at one of Briggo's "Golden Greats" meetings but his record speaks for itself.

[Sidney the robin]

14 hours ago, auntie doris said:

If I had to pick one, Ove would just pip Ivan. Hans and Briggo right up there as best I've seen.

Only saw Ove once Doris against Wembley 1970 Briggo destroyed him twice  Ove did have his measure though generally.Ove was such a tough rider fair but totally committed a true gentleman off the track.Mauger, Ove, Barry, Hans, certainly would be in my all time top ten riders.

[norbold]

Of riders I've seen, definitely Ove for me. Even during the time of "The Big Five", which of course included Briggo, Ove was definitely the guv'nor.

I would agree that Mauger and  Nielsen come a shade behind Ove, and also Tony Rickardsson.

[Sidney the robin]

14 minutes ago, norbold said:

Of riders I've seen, definitely Ove for me. Even during the time of "The Big Five", which of course included Briggo, Ove was definitely the guv'nor.

I would agree that Mauger and  Nielsen come a shade behind Ove, and also Tony Rickardsson.

Your opinion is very much valued Norbold, and you are on the money.Rickardsson was a rider i never really took to but his achievements says it all.My biggest regret was never seeing Craven and Knutsson ride the big five Ove, Barry, Peter, Bjorn, Mirac were something else.My uncle who first took me to speedway said that Knutsson had untapped quality silky smooth a rider who was a threat to everybody.Another rider he always harped on about was Gote Nordin he always maintained he was a class act.

Edited September 26, 2020 by Sidney the robin

[OveFundinFan]

1 hour ago, Sidney the robin said:

Your opinion is very much valued Norbold, and you are on the money.Rickardsson was a rider i never really took to but his achievements says it all.My biggest regret was never seeing Craven and Knutsson ride the big five Ove, Barry, Peter, Bjorn, Mirac were something else.My uncle who first took me to speedway said that Knutsson had untapped quality silky smooth a rider who was a threat to everybody.Another rider he always harped on about was Gote Nordin he always maintained he was a class act.

Gote Norden was a class speedway rider. Silky smooth with a nice style. Pity he never reached the very top, he would have been a popular world champ and a class ambassador for the sport.

Edited September 26, 2020 by OveFundinFan

[norbold]

1 hour ago, Sidney the robin said:

Your opinion is very much valued Norbold, and you are on the money.Rickardsson was a rider i never really took to but his achievements says it all.My biggest regret was never seeing Craven and Knutsson ride the big five Ove, Barry, Peter, Bjorn, Mirac were something else.My uncle who first took me to speedway said that Knutsson had untapped quality silky smooth a rider who was a threat to everybody.Another rider he always harped on about was Gote Nordin he always maintained he was a class act.

During the early sixties, Nordin was definitely on a par with the Big Five. I definitely think, given his ability, that he did underachieve in the World Championship which tends to make him a forgotten rider today.

[Sidney the robin]

17 minutes ago, norbold said:

During the early sixties, Nordin was definitely on a par with the Big Five. I definitely think, given his ability, that he did underachieve in the World Championship which tends to make him a forgotten rider today.

Did Gote start in the old provincial league Norbold??? was it a huge leap to ride in the top league.?? Always puzzled me that Eric Boocock said he was never phased by moving up with the top boys took it in his stride he said he learned loads by traveling with Nigel and learning the ropes.

[E I Addio]

25 minutes ago, norbold said:

During the early sixties, Nordin was definitely on a par with the Big Five. I definitely think, given his ability, that he did underachieve in the World Championship which tends to make him a forgotten rider today.

I think you have to look at the level of opposition as well. 
 

For example I would have rated Rocky Marciano as the greatest Heavyweight boxer ever on the basis of his career record of 49 , fights, 49 wins and 43 of them by KO before retiring as undefeated World Champion, but looking at some reports the other day it seems that most boxing writers and magazines put him around the lower end of the top 10:greatest ever, on the basis his era didn’t have many really hard punchers that other eras had and some that he did fight were past their prime at the time. Not his fault of course , because you can only beat what’s in front of you but he never had to fight, for example , Ali , Frazier, or Foreman in their prime. That’s the view of the experts, I stress, so don’t jump on me those who disagree.

Now , let’s convert that to speedway. Jason Crump had the misfortune to be around at the time of a truly great rider- Rickardson- at his prime. If Rickardson had not been there Crump would likely have had six World titles and we would be ranking him alongside the absolute all time cream of riders. There is no doubt in my mind that there have been very few riders in the history of the sport with Crumps talent but he just happened to be around at the time of Rickardson. The same might be said about Nordin, and arguably even Harrfeldt , but they both happened to have a relatively short time at the top, and look who they were up against, three of the true greats- Fundin , Briggs and Knutson, also to a lesser extent Ronnie Moore who was injured for part of the time.

Now we come to the Big Five. Although it could be reasonably argued that in many ways the average level of competition was not as professional as it is now each of the the Big Five still had to beat four of the other true greats. Imagine a one off world Final and you find yourself facing all four of the others at some stage ! What if, Fundin had never ridden speedway , how many titles would Briggs have won ? What if Ronnie more had not spent two years car racing and six years in premature retirement before returning still as a world class rider ?What if Peter Craven had not lost his life in that terrible crash in Edinburgh? What if Knutson, five or six years younger than the others had not retired still a young man ? Any of them might well have the best record ever if not for the great what ifs.

I know this will be controversial but I think Knutson , only a year or so younger than Mauger, could well have had some of Maugers titles, and perhaps we would be regarded far more highly than he is, because, quite honestly , who did Mauger face who had the year in year out conststency of the Big Five,.

 If the “ What ifs” teach us one thing it it is don’t compare. They were all great. Just be grateful that we had the chance to see some of these wonderful riders in a wonderful era before the sport nose dived into its present decline.

[Sidney the robin]

1 minute ago, E I Addio said:

I think you have to look at the level of opposition as well. 
 

For example I would have rated Rocky Marciano as the greatest Heavyweight boxer ever on the basis of his career record of 49 , fights, 49 wins and 43 of them by KO before retiring as undefeated World Champion, but looking at some reports the other day it seems that most boxing writers and magazines put him around the lower end of the top 10:greatest ever, on the basis his era didn’t have many really hard punchers that other eras had and some that he did fight were past their prime at the time. Not his fault of course , because you can only beat what’s in front of you but he never had to fight, for example , Ali , Frazier, or Foreman in their prime. That’s the view of the experts, I stress, so don’t jump on me those who disagree.

Now , let’s convert that to speedway. Jason Crump had the misfortune to be around at the time of a truly great rider- Rickardson- at his prime. If Rickardson had not been there Crump would likely have had six World titles and we would be ranking him alongside the absolute all time cream of riders. There is no doubt in my mind that there have been very few riders in the history of the sport with Crumps talent but he just happened to be around at the time of Rickardson. The same might be said about Nordin, and arguably even Harrfeldt , but they both happened to have a relatively short time at the top, and look who they were up against, three of the true greats- Fundin , Briggs and Knutson, also to a lesser extent Ronnie Moore who was injured for part of the time.

Now we come to the Big Five. Although it could be reasonably argued that in many ways the average level of competition was not as professional as it is now each of the the Big Five still had to beat four of the other true greats. Imagine a one off world Final and you find yourself facing all four of the others at some stage ! What if, Fundin had never ridden speedway , how many titles would Briggs have won ? What if Ronnie more had not spent two years car racing and six years in premature retirement before returning still as a world class rider ?What if Peter Craven had not lost his life in that terrible crash in Edinburgh? What if Knutson, five or six years younger than the others had not retired still a young man ? Any of them might well have the best record ever if not for the great what ifs.

I know this will be controversial but I think Knutson , only a year or so younger than Mauger, could well have had some of Maugers titles, and perhaps we would be regarded far more highly than he is, because, quite honestly , who did Mauger face who had the year in year out conststency of the Big Five,.

 If the “ What ifs” teach us one thing it it is don’t compare. They were all great. Just be grateful that we had the chance to see some of these wonderful riders in a wonderful era before the sport nose dived into its present decline.

One of the best posts i have ever read on this forum Addio really makes you think.You mentioned Marciano basically a blown up lightweight hard as nails as you say you can only beat who is in front of you.Marciano was 49-0 he was offfered fortunes to comeback and get over the 50-0' but he had promised his beloved mum he would stay retired.Rickardsson was a thorn in Jason's side and it might sound ridiculous i put Jason and Gollob above Tony BUT the roll of honour does not lie.That fabulous top five Barry, Ove, Mirac, Bjorn, Peter was something else what a level/Standard.A honest question to you Addio if you are a fan of somebody ( i.e. me and Briggo and Ove with Ove can you become bias blinkered what do you think.?

[norbold]

Of course you are right, E I. Rocky Marciano was very lucky to become world champion in the first place. Jersey Joe Walcott outboxed him easily for 13 rounds and then just one sucker punch and he was out.

As for speedway, yes I absolutely agree with everything you have said and I agree that we could now be talking about Bjorn Knutson being the greatest rider ever (even better than Tom Farndon!) if he hadn't retired so early. I had the privilege of seeing him every week at West Ham and he was definitely the classiest rider I have ever seen. He could beat anybody and frequently did. I also saw Sverre every week as well and, good as he undoubtedly was, I don't think he was ever quite in that "super" class of Fundin, Briggs, Knutson, etc.

Mauger's only rival really was Ole Olsen and Olsen managed to get three World Titles during the period of their rivalry, so certainly not outclassed by Mauger.