Streaming

[chunky]

1 hour ago, Najjer said:

Depending on the price of the stream, using your £12 example, if 5 neutrals who wouldn't of ever been going to the meeting anyway decide to watch then the club is making even more money

That was the point I made earlier when I suggested deals for away fixtures; 90% of fans wouldn't even consider making a 400 mile round trip to follow their team, but a good few of them would be happy to pay for a live stream.

[OveFundinFan]

For some time now BSF members have been saying British speedway is in the doldrums, dying on its feet, and what’s needed is some different thinking, something creative.  The thinking a family of four staying at home, spend £12 instead of £50, thus the track loses £38 plus drinks, food etc, is stifling the creative thinking.  When this pandemic is managed and we can have a bit of normality, many workers will have lost their jobs (how many millions we don’t know), their won’t be many families who can afford £50 plus, and I just wonder what percentage of fans currently are mum, dad plus 2 kids anyway. 
Creative thinking, here is a good example I just seen on a shopping channel on TV. ...... they selling a pair of ladies thigh length boots (I don’t normally watch ladies fashion, honest, but I just woke up from mid afternoon nap) and this was the offer. You order your size and they send two pairs, one the size you order, other pair half size bigger, whichever fits you keep and send the other pair back post free. Immediately I said to the wife “what a brilliant idea”, she looks at me with a blank look on her face. Creative thinking....... they almost certain of a sale by sending two pairs, different sizes. If they sent the size ordered, say ladies size 5, and it was a bit tight, it would be sent back and unlikely a size bigger ordered (lots of purchases are impulse buys). Result.... no sale.     So, two pairs sent, different sizes, one pair is likely to be fit and kept by customer..... kerching - money in the till that might not have been there.  Brilliant idea.  The model doesn’t fit speedway sales, but it’s the creative thinking needed to INCREASE sales that is needed.

 

 

 

 

  

[chunky]

1 hour ago, OveFundinFan said:

For some time now BSF members have been saying British speedway is in the doldrums, dying on its feet, and what’s needed is some different thinking, something creative.

The model doesn’t fit speedway sales, but it’s the creative thinking needed to INCREASE sales that is needed.

Sadly, the BSF members you are talking about don't care. "This is the way we've always done it, and I'll be buggered if I'm going to change..."

Honestly, I don't know what these people want.

They reckon they are "speedway fans", yet they complain about everything.

They wonder why crowds are so poor, yet they are quite happy to state that they wouldn't go, even if it was free.

They say that modern speedway is crap. How would they know when they refuse to even watch it on TV?

Every major professional sport welcomes TV, but no, speedway doesn't need it...

There are a lot of older fans who still follow the sport, but they are criticised by the younger brigade who tell us we are "keeping new fans away".

Live streaming is a valuable tool, but no, that's another thing that we don't need, as it will kill tracks.

It's like they really want to keep speedway to themselves, even though they aren't interested enough to go themselves. Weird...

[Hawk127]

Depends on what happens going forward re the pandemic but if the crowds are restricted then streaming may turn out to be the saviour of speedway. Clubs could offer local supporters within a certain distance of the club a lower rate and those beyond pay a slightly higher rate (use post codes). If it means clubs can run behind closed doors, why not give it a go. I have watched streamed meetings both U.K. and from Poland and for example last nights meeting between Russia and Poland was not bad at all and given the smart t v etc, you can watch just like normal television. I know it is not the same as watching live but things are not normal and unlikely to be in the short to medium term so I really do not see why anyone could be against streaming a meeting and paying to keep the sport going. I doubt that 2021 is going to see much change so new ways of watching the sport need to be adopted if it is to survive. Season ticket holders could be offered free streaming until live sport is possible. Nothing ventured nothing gained is my view.

[enotian]

26 minutes ago, chunky said:

 

Live streaming is a valuable tool, but no, that's another thing that we don't need, as it will kill tracks.

 

to be fair though is streaming of league matches even at Premiership level viable? you might increase income from away supporters who wouldn't have travelled but how many neutral supporters would pay to watch a match that doesn't involve their team? then you have those locals who used to attend as a family but now just buy one streaming pass instead.

regardless, would the income received even cover the cost of providing the coverage? for a league match? you need to scale it up to make it viable.

i can see how it could work for shared events, pairs, 4TT, rider championship with all teams represented. potential there are a lot of supporters who wouldn't normally travel who just might pay for those streams.

how about doing a magic weekend event a la rugby league where all the teams participate at the same venue? or have a knock out cup weekend (quarter finals on the Saturday, semi's and the Final on the Sunday all at the same venue) charge £50 to stream 7 matches over the weekend?

[OveFundinFan]

1 hour ago, Hawk127 said:

Depends on what happens going forward re the pandemic but if the crowds are restricted then streaming may turn out to be the saviour of speedway. Clubs could offer local supporters within a certain distance of the club a lower rate and those beyond pay a slightly higher rate (use post codes). If it means clubs can run behind closed doors, why not give it a go. I have watched streamed meetings both U.K. and from Poland and for example last nights meeting between Russia and Poland was not bad at all and given the smart t v etc, you can watch just like normal television. I know it is not the same as watching live but things are not normal and unlikely to be in the short to medium term so I really do not see why anyone could be against streaming a meeting and paying to keep the sport going. I doubt that 2021 is going to see much change so new ways of watching the sport need to be adopted if it is to survive. Season ticket holders could be offered free streaming until live sport is possible. Nothing ventured nothing gained is my view.

Why would you charge different rates depending on how far away they live, the further away pay more too?  Seems crackpot idea to me.

[OveFundinFan]

1 hour ago, enotian said:

to be fair though is streaming of league matches even at Premiership level viable? you might increase income from away supporters who wouldn't have travelled but how many neutral supporters would pay to watch a match that doesn't involve their team? then you have those locals who used to attend as a family but now just buy one streaming pass instead.

regardless, would the income received even cover the cost of providing the coverage? for a league match? you need to scale it up to make it viable.

i can see how it could work for shared events, pairs, 4TT, rider championship with all teams represented. potential there are a lot of supporters who wouldn't normally travel who just might pay for those streams.

how about doing a magic weekend event a la rugby league where all the teams participate at the same venue? or have a knock out cup weekend (quarter finals on the Saturday, semi's and the Final on the Sunday all at the same venue) charge £50 to stream 7 matches over the weekend?

You make two points in one sentence, so I break it up.

Why would you increase income (presumably you mean charge more) for away supporters. You trying to attract them I would have thought.

how many neutral supporters would pay to watch a match that doesn't involve their team?      
You obviously expecting few, so any that do watch is a bonus income.  If two teams I didn’t support were playing and I thought it was going to be a cracker of a match, yes I would pay and watch.  

Although I have an affection for BVue (I started going over 60 years agog), it’s Speedway I love, so good racing comes above loyalty to a team - that’s why I love speedway GP racing, it’s so exciting.

 

[OveFundinFan]

7 hours ago, hammer1969 said:

Here's a novel idea, more info and details etc on the Berwick Website.  I'll be watching it and donating, wonder how many others will?

the event is now scheduled for Wednesday the 21st of October at 7pm.

 

* Pay what you like pay per view:

Watch the British Under 21 Final from the comfort of your living room on your SmartTV or your household devices. Before, during or after the event head on over to www.berwickspeedway.com and pay what you feel the event is worth

I tied up every Wednesday evening, so I emailed Berwick speedway to ask if it would be available on You Tube after the event. A reply came within 30 minutes, a decision has not yet been made, but it has been done before. If it is available then I will be watching, and paying. And because they said it is available whether you pay or not I will contribute more then I would expect to pay. I hope it’s a success for Berwick speedway, the management their seems as if they are triers.

[chunky]

52 minutes ago, OveFundinFan said:

how many neutral supporters would pay to watch a match that doesn't involve their team?      
You obviously expecting few, so any that do watch is a bonus income.  If two teams I didn’t support were playing and I thought it was going to be a cracker of a match, yes I would pay and watch.  

Well, I used to pay money to travel all over the country to watch matches as a neutral, and there were plenty of us that used to do the same. So, why wouldn't people pay money to watch online?

Obviously, there are those who wouldn't, but people like you and I would.

[mikebv]

33 minutes ago, chunky said:

Well, I used to pay money to travel all over the country to watch matches as a neutral, and there were plenty of us that used to do the same. So, why wouldn't people pay money to watch online?

Obviously, there are those who wouldn't, but people like you and I would.

And the positive for those "dodgy weather" evenings is that many simply decide nowadays not to go as "several times bitten, many more times shy" is very much the thinking when time and again you pay to get in and throw your cash down the (probably blocked) drain...

At least with streaming those who decide to give it a miss can then still put a few quid into their club which, by not turning up in person, they won't be doing...

A little from a lot can soon mount up...

[chunky]

7 minutes ago, mikebv said:

And the positive for those "dodgy weather" evenings is that many simply decide nowadays not to go as "several times bitten, many more times shy" is very much the thinking when time and again you pay to get in and throw your cash down the (probably blocked) drain...

At least with streaming those who decide to give it a miss can then still put a few quid into their club which, by not turning up in person, they won't be doing...

A little from a lot can soon mount up...

Exactly... It's not quite the financial suicide that the doom merchants seem to believe.

[michanekman]

On the other side of the coin, I haven't been to a 'live' speedway meeting for some 10 years but I happily paid to watch the stream of the British final.

 

[uk_martin]

I'm not convinced by the choir of voices pledging to support streaming speedway.

I ask myself this...a few years ago, a deal was done with Bet365 to have streaming coverage of speedway. Who signed up for it? That service never made it to a second season.

People say "yeah, I'll pay". Yeah, until you quickly find a "free" pirated streaming link on BSF, like you do for the Polish and SGP meetings, and use that instead.

It's in the nature of speedway fans to use a pirated link rather than an official channel, to use a downloaded race card rather than the official programme, your own smuggled in food & drink rather than what's on sale at official outlets...

So, by all means give it a try, but don't hold your breath that it will be the salvation of the sport. And when it all goes wrong, and the sport runs out of money, don't forget to blame someone else for that happening too.

[enotian]

On 9/30/2020 at 8:24 PM, OveFundinFan said:

You make two points in one sentence, so I break it up.

Why would you increase income (presumably you mean charge more) for away supporters. You trying to attract them I would have thought.

how many neutral supporters would pay to watch a match that doesn't involve their team?      
You obviously expecting few, so any that do watch is a bonus income.  If two teams I didn’t support were playing and I thought it was going to be a cracker of a match, yes I would pay and watch.  

Although I have an affection for BVue (I started going over 60 years agog), it’s Speedway I love, so good racing comes above loyalty to a team - that’s why I love speedway GP racing, it’s so exciting.

 

Sorry you misunderstood.

What I mean is that if you live stream a regular league match, away supporters who would not have had any intention (or opportunity) to attend might very well pay to watch their team.  I think I might if it was the best entertainment option that night. Remember you're competing with other TV which people have already paid for or a night out. So say the away team has 1000 regular supporters and you get 500 of them to pay £10 to stream, then that's £5,000 you wouldn't have made without streaming. Excellent.

Then there's neutral supporters. I really can't see this being many.  Put it this way if Leicester v Eastbourne was available to stream for £10 on a  nice summers evening there are plenty of other things I'd rather be doing here in Newcastle (at least there will be again next summer).  But you are reaching a global audience so let's say 1,000 neutrals pay £10 so you make £10,000  extra.  Excellent.

The question now is does £15,000 income cover the cost of providing the stream? And importantly what negative impact does it have on your gate receipts?  

I don't know how much it would cost to stream a meeting but I suspect TV standard would be very expensive. If you're talking one camera and one commentator then less costly but lower standard.  Again remember you're competing with other activities. I've no idea but say a man with a camera and a commentator providing all the streaming tech charge you £5,000.  You're still £10,000 up. Excellent.

But what about those supporters who would have turned up  and paid on average £15 who now stay at home and stream for £10. Or worse where a group of people (family of four) pay £10 instead of £60 on the gate. If 50 families did that then you've lost £10,000 on the gate receipts (consider that the family would also be saving travel costs so it's a real threat). You are no better off and that's before you consider the impact on bar takings and the like.

The threat of bad weather could make this even worse if more people who would have normally paid on the gate decide to stay at home. I reckon most people attend as a group or at least as a pair.  If they stay home and share a stream that's £10 instead of £30 at the gate.

Clearly the numbers are made up but I've tried to be realistic. It all seems a bit too marginal with a risk of actually losing money for any promoter to try this at league level.

Feel free to suggest that there are 10,000 neutrals out there desperate to stream league matches every night of the week but you'll struggle to convince me.

Don't get me wrong I think it would be great but it just doesn't sound financially viable to me.

As I said earlier it's your shared events which could really attract the number of streaming sales needed to make it viable.

[IainB]

On 10/1/2020 at 12:28 AM, michanekman said:

On the other side of the coin, I haven't been to a 'live' speedway meeting for some 10 years but I happily paid to watch the stream of the British final.

 

As a matter of interest and obviously you don't have to answer but why haven't you been for 10 years and why did you stream the British Final

12 hours ago, uk_martin said:

I'm not convinced by the choir of voices pledging to support streaming speedway.

I ask myself this...a few years ago, a deal was done with Bet365 to have streaming coverage of speedway. Who signed up for it? That service never made it to a second season.

People say "yeah, I'll pay". Yeah, until you quickly find a "free" pirated streaming link on BSF, like you do for the Polish and SGP meetings, and use that instead.

It's in the nature of speedway fans to use a pirated link rather than an official channel, to use a downloaded race card rather than the official programme, your own smuggled in food & drink rather than what's on sale at official outlets...

So, by all means give it a try, but don't hold your breath that it will be the salvation of the sport. And when it all goes wrong, and the sport runs out of money, don't forget to blame someone else for that happening too.

I don't think you can compare streaming coverage of Speedway to what was on offer on Bet365 a few years back, from what I saw of it, it had no commentary and you couldn't watch it full screen and a lot of people don't want to sign up to a betting website to watch it. Obviously I don't know for sure but I think you'd probably find that the vast silent majority do subscribe to BT Sport or Premier Sports to watch their Speedway rather than watching some ropey stream with Polish of Swedish commentary, I certainly do. I don't think you can tar all Speedway fans with the I'll watch it for free brush.

I don't think streaming will be the saviour of the sport but it's certainly an untapped revenue stream (pun)