Prague GP`s rounds 5 and 6 Friday and Saturday September 18th and 19th

[Grachan]

11 minutes ago, Steve Shovlar said:

The technology is available to take any subjectivity out of the equation. A movement sensor on all bikes, aligned to the release of the tape mechanism. As soon as the green lights come on the sensor becomes live, and if a rider moves before the tapes are released he is out. Very straight forward to do and would remove the ref from making subjective calls. 

Is it not possible that, if the limits are set so exactly, you might find that all the riders are moving to a degree before the tapes go up?

[Steve Shovlar]

3 minutes ago, Grachan said:

Is it not possible that, if the limits are set so exactly, you might find that all the riders are moving to a degree before the tapes go up?

But it would be easy to build in some leeway of say, 10mm over half a second. Such sensors, like those used in athletics, have been used for decades. 

[sparks123]

7 hours ago, chunky said:

For those who are interested (all you anoraks), here is how a rider COULD have won EVERY GP last year, and not finished in the Top 8. 6 points could get you into the semis, plus 2 from the semi, and 3 for winning the final. Of course, there are variations on this, but I tried to keep it simple.

The top section is the final points awarded for each GP, and the bottom section is the season-end totals with final positions. Again, this was just something I did for fun, and to prove that while most of us preferred the old system, it was far from perfect! As has been EVERY system...

As you say there are flaws with all systems.

Last season you could score a 15 point max in every round (Qualifying heats) and have a tape exclusion or a fall (due to a bike malfunction), puncture etc in every semi final and be in contention to be world champion (Bartosz won last year with 132 points and you would have 150 points). 

This season you would get 9 points per round and probably miss out on automatic qualification for the following season.

Edited September 19, 2020 by sparks123
missing word.

[Fromafar]

9 hours ago, tyler42 said:

But the ref called back one of those starts and after watching the reply, Realised he had made a mistake. Whereas tonight Madsen jumped before the tapes went up and many times did he do that tonight? four out of six rides was it not!

So the Ref calls the race back When he gets it wrong.Thats just as bad IMO..

Thats just my thoughts on the matter though.

 

[Fromafar]

5 hours ago, HenryW said:

I'm not sure about mobile devices, but if you have a laptop or PC and can do frame by frame on youtube - "." key (full stop) to move one frame forward and "," key (comma)  to move one back, it really looks to me like he didn't move until the tapes were moving.

Don't get me wrong....He clearly anticipated the start. That was NOT a reaction to the tapes being released. Apart from anything else, he was looking at the tapes in front of himself rather than the pole and when he moved the tapes in front of him hadn't moved...I'd love to hear any theory about why Leon does that when everyone else looks at the pole/magnet. 

However, as my understanding of the rules are, that was a perfect start. He didn't move until the tapes moved. It was impossible for him to have reacted that fast, but I don't think the rules say anything about reaction time...I could be wrong, though, as I haven't checked any rule changes in recent years.

That’s where Transponders might be useful ,noting reaction times.In Athletics you an get disqualified if you move and your reaction time is to quick.

[IainB]

14 hours ago, Cerro said:

Madsen always looks hella quick, whats he up to? Guy finds speed where no one else does 

Reminds me a bit of Jan O, he could usually find grip and speed where no one else could

14 hours ago, KeirStarmerFan said:

Emil is the best rider in the Polish league.

What is going on?

He needs to bring his Leszno bike to GPs.

Either the Russian mafia has got to him or his bikes are running on novichok 

14 hours ago, Mark said:

Its rubbish as it always is in Prague but BSI love going to Prague.   God knows why but the massive crowd will have a good time in the city.

May as hold a GP in Blackpool then

13 hours ago, KingoftheTrack said:

Milik being outscored by Lindback in his own country where did it all go wrong for Vaclav. 

Had a lot of promise at one stage.

If I were BSI I'd pull him from tonight's GP, didn't even finish a few of his races. I thought the wildcard was used to pull in a crowd... as crowd's aren't allowed they may as well grant it to somebody who's interested in finishing races.

13 hours ago, marko said:

I cant get why NKI has never become a more dominant rider at Grand Prix level, he has a ton of skill but must lack bike performance.

Seems injury prone

12 hours ago, lucifer sam said:

Were those standings right?

Lindgren finished his semi - Doyle didn't.  I think Lindgren therefore gets the place.  Very poor if it goes up incorrectly on screen.  Don't even the FIM know their own scoring system?

EDIT: And thinking about it, Laguta's 4th is also better than Doyle's non-finish.

They're always wrong! You either need to be sitting down with a laptop and dictionary or have racers & royals by your side to understand at any speed what's going on. I predict a real shambles in the last GP when the winner is to be decided if one rider makes the final and another hasn't as people are trying to calculate who the new world champion is!!!

11 hours ago, False dawn said:

Under this system, it's theoretically possible to become world champion without winning a race.

to be fair it's always been the case... the only positive I can see with the new system is that Zmarzlik is only 1 point clear of Lindgren, where under the old system he would now be 14 points clear of Woffy

[Daniel Smith]

11 hours ago, False dawn said:

Under this system, it's theoretically possible to become world champion without winning a race.

The same under the other system too

[kluson]

12 hours ago, Steve Shovlar said:

All premier football players have played at Anfield. The thousands on the Kop have nothing to do with helping Liverpool win. 

What a ridiculous analagy. The premier league players, you talk about are not playing at Anfield every week ; unlike the GP riders who are plying their trade at Polish tracks every week. Tai has been there for more years than i can remember,  for the same team. You cannot confuse football with Speedway they are so different. Your comment about fans also doesn't stand up : for example Aston Villa  did much better behind closed doors than they did when they had passionate , capacity crowds. it may be better to think your answers through a little more.

[OveFundinFan]

1 hour ago, Grachan said:

Is it not possible that, if the limits are set so exactly, you might find that all the riders are moving to a degree before the tapes go up?

MotoGp must have a system that detects the finest of movement. I think it was Argentina GP last year, Cal Crutchlow moved ever so slightly, just moved - didnt go, it was detected and he had to do a "pit ride through" which costs about 30 seconds.  They magnified his front wheel, did it in slowmo, yet ou could only just see the movement - as I said, such a small movement yet it was detected.  Would be a bit crazy giving a speedway rider a "pit ride through" penalty though ! 

[Steve Shovlar]

21 minutes ago, kluson said:

What a ridiculous analagy. The premier league players, you talk about are not playing at Anfield every week ; unlike the GP riders who are plying their trade at Polish tracks every week. Tai has been there for more years than i can remember,  for the same team. You cannot confuse football with Speedway they are so different. Your comment about fans also doesn't stand up : for example Aston Villa  did much better behind closed doors than they did when they had passionate , capacity crowds. it may be better to think your answers through a little more.

Don’t be ridiculous. What you are saying is you don’t believe in home advantage. Which has been proved in all sports to be an advantage. You are saying having a baying and partisan Polish crowd, on Polish tracks, is not an advantage? Clearly it is.

 

[kluson]

29 minutes ago, Steve Shovlar said:

Don’t be ridiculous. What you are saying is you don’t believe in home advantage. Which has been proved in all sports to be an advantage. You are saying having a baying and partisan Polish crowd, on Polish tracks, is not an advantage? Clearly it is.

 

That's not what I am saying at all, as well you know!

[chunky]

4 hours ago, sparks123 said:

If Madsen was excluded and you promoted the riders in that race then Dudek and Michelsen would have had 8 points also (with 2 and 1 race win).

Fricke and Tai would have missed out on the semi's along with Madsen (as Tai was the 8th qualifier).

Fair point. I was just focused on the fact that Madsen took a spot he shouldn't have...

[Pinny]

3 hours ago, Steve Shovlar said:

But it would be easy to build in some leeway of say, 10mm over half a second. Such sensors, like those used in athletics, have been used for decades. 

They should just go back to old school and as long as you dont touch the tapes, its all good. 

[mikebv]

Maybe do what Athletics do. You move and you are out..

It caused issues initially when introduced, but very quickly the athletes learned not to "go early" and restarts are now rare, even in the races similar to Speedway where split seconds count

First time you get put out of the race, do it again and you are out of the meeting.

Simple to understand.

Give every rider one review to use if they feel hard done to.

If clearly the ref got it wrong they get reinstated, if not the refs call is used..

[Ahrab]

Just to add to the many frustrations on track with points, warnings and anticipating starts, i still don’t know why when races are stopped, unless for an accident, that riders are not instructed by a set rule put in place to ride straight back round to the start line and not have any work done to the bike from mechanics coming onto the track. From time to time I hear Kelvin Tatum mention this yet it’s become so common in Speedway that the amount of time wasted is never addressed. Is this an unnecessary gripe for the product? On a side note regarding the Marketa Stadium, is the configuration suitable for GP level? No banking, flat surface, lacklustre racing, minimal overtaking or entertainment?

[Fromafar]

“It is what it is “as Tai would say ,we just have hope we get some decent racing.

[Tim G]

3 hours ago, OveFundinFan said:

MotoGp must have a system that detects the finest of movement. I think it was Argentina GP last year, Cal Crutchlow moved ever so slightly, just moved - didnt go, it was detected and he had to do a "pit ride through" which costs about 30 seconds.  They magnified his front wheel, did it in slowmo, yet ou could only just see the movement - as I said, such a small movement yet it was detected.  Would be a bit crazy giving a speedway rider a "pit ride through" penalty though ! 

Moto GP have cameras on every grid slot and they are checked after every start. You now get a long lap penalty as the pit ride through was deemed to harsh.

[marko]

As I have said before, it’s similar to the league play offs and the majority of fans are in favour of that system even though a team can finish mid table and still be crowned champions.

I would prefer 20 straight heats and what you score is just that, but it does lack drama, these gimmicks have been introduced over the years to make it more interesting and make up for the fact that racing at times can be very dull and predictable after the start, so the focus is on manipulating the contest to keep it interesting.

In the grand prixs though, most meetings are held on big tracks where speed is king, need more variety, imagine having a GP on a track shaped like Monmore Green, Eastbourne, or Ipswich? Less reliance on pure speed, and more on actual track craft. 

[Steve Shovlar]

Fingers crossed for better than last night. Have a feeling the racing will be better. It can’t be worse, surely?

[Steve Shovlar]

3 hours ago, marko said:

As I have said before, it’s similar to the league play offs and the majority of fans are in favour of that system even though a team can finish mid table and still be crowned champions.

I would prefer 20 straight heats and what you score is just that, but it does lack drama, these gimmicks have been introduced over the years to make it more interesting and make up for the fact that racing at times can be very dull and predictable after the start, so the focus is on manipulating the contest to keep it interesting.

In the grand prixs though, most meetings are held on big tracks where speed is king, need more variety, imagine having a GP on a track shaped like Monmore Green, Eastbourne, or Ipswich? Less reliance on pure speed, and more on actual track craft. 

One of the best ever international meetings of all time was the WTC at Poole in 2004. An absolute classic meeting which had everything. Great racing, massive controversy and a packed overflowing crowd. On what is today classed as a small 300 metre race track.