IainB Posted August 29, 2020 Report Share Posted August 29, 2020 (edited) 38 minutes ago, SPEEDY69 said: But it's new fans/ businesses they want, not all of us anoraks. You have to be an anorak to understand the new points system... and I'm not talking about the final, the whole bloody lot! 19 minutes ago, ProudtobeaBrummie said: Personally i like the new points format and brings us in line with all the more successful motor sports Perhaps we should be running 1 70 lap race then? To bring us in line 13 minutes ago, falcace said: Nothing will be perfect. Formats should be geared to elimate or seriously hamper any potential corruption or manipulation. This new format makes it MORE likely. I am not citing unlikely scenarios either. We've all seen plenty of GPs where one rider is particularly "dialled in" that night. On these occasions, the rider has every motivation to keep the pedal to the metal and grab every point they can to improve their World Championship standing. This won't be the case going forward with the new format. It doesn't take the biggest conspiracist to see a situation where that rider arrives at his last ride on 12 points, he will be much less incentivised to go all out. More likely, they will be checking their programmes and scores of their close rivals in the series and plotting what result would serve them best...Rather than going for a rewardless maximum. The longer the series goes and the championship rivals and the qualification cut off contenders emerge, the more likely this scenario will play out. I can't wait for the last GP when we're all waiting for some "anorak" feeding details into a spreadsheet to work out who has just become world champion, because somebody's finished level on points and rider x beat rider y in heat z but then rider a finished 2nd to rider b in heat c etc. etc. Thankfully it'll all be over in 5 weeks and we won't be going on about it for 5 months like we could have been Edited August 29, 2020 by iainb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambo Posted August 29, 2020 Report Share Posted August 29, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, iainb said: You have to be an anorak to understand the new points system... and I'm not talking about the final, the whole bloody lot! Perhaps we should be running 1 70 lap race then? To bring us in line I can't wait for the last GP when we're all waiting for some "anorak" feeding details into a spreadsheet to work out who has just become world champion, because somebody's finished level on points and rider x beat rider y in heat z but then rider a finished 2nd to rider b in heat c etc. etc. That would all be sorted before the S/F's anyway. And if two riders were level on Series points there would be a Race-Off for the title. And I don't like the new system either. Edited August 29, 2020 by Gambo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPEEDY69 Posted August 29, 2020 Report Share Posted August 29, 2020 13 minutes ago, falcace said: Nothing will be perfect. Formats should be geared to elimate or seriously hamper any potential corruption or manipulation. This new format makes it MORE likely. I am not citing unlikely scenarios either. We've all seen plenty of GPs where one rider is particularly "dialled in" that night. On these occasions, the rider has every motivation to keep the pedal to the metal and grab every point they can to improve their World Championship standing. This won't be the case going forward with the new format. It doesn't take the biggest conspiracist to see a situation where that rider arrives at his last ride on 12 points, he will be much less incentivised to go all out. More likely, they will be checking their programmes and scores of their close rivals in the series and plotting what result would serve them best...Rather than going for a rewardless maximum. The longer the series goes and the championship rivals and the qualification cut off contenders emerge, the more likely this scenario will play out. I don't think it makes it more likely in the slightest. Scoring more or less points in a race, if that's an option for you, has always been available. A scoring system makes no difference. Last year, who's to say Zmarzlik didn't offer incentives to others to defeat Madsen, or the other way around. If you want to manipulate the are always ways to do it. I think it's rarer than some think though. Team speedway in the UK always has conspiracy theorists over team scores, averages etc. Talking about a sport generates debate and interest which can actually attract media & viewers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted August 29, 2020 Report Share Posted August 29, 2020 2 minutes ago, Gambo said: That would all be sorted before the S/F's anyway. . It wasn't last night, not if what r&r says is anything to go by Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bavarian Posted August 29, 2020 Report Share Posted August 29, 2020 What's all this talk about the Anlas tyres being banned tonight? Seems that Bartek Zmarzlik has initiated an official protest, backed by eleven other GP riders plus two reserves, against the use of the Turkish product in the SGP series. Last night four riders rode the Anlas tyres. By the way, Anlas is an official sponsor and supplier of tyres for the SGP series, but in the last couple of years hardly any one of the GP riders used their product. Last night, the winner Artem Lagutra, the runner up Maciej Janowski, as well as two Danes, Michelsen and Iversen, rode Anlas tyres, and the rest rode Mitas tyres. Now Zmarzlik has objected to teh use of Anlas tyres and claims that their product is not legal (too soft). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambo Posted August 29, 2020 Report Share Posted August 29, 2020 Just now, iainb said: It wasn't last night, not if what r&r says is anything to go by The Spreadsheet used by the FIM had it sorted, as soon as heat 20 was finished. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted August 29, 2020 Report Share Posted August 29, 2020 1 minute ago, Gambo said: The Spreadsheet used by the FIM had it sorted, as soon as heat 20 was finished. What were they posting on TV and Twitter then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambo Posted August 29, 2020 Report Share Posted August 29, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, iainb said: What were they posting on TV and Twitter then? I've no idea! Edited August 29, 2020 by Gambo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted August 29, 2020 Report Share Posted August 29, 2020 Just now, Gambo said: No idea! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambo Posted August 29, 2020 Report Share Posted August 29, 2020 3 minutes ago, iainb said: What were they posting on TV and Twitter then? 2 minutes ago, Gambo said: I've no idea! I don't do Twitter, and I doubt that the Referee and Meeting Secretary were Twittering at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted August 29, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2020 6 minutes ago, Gambo said: The Spreadsheet used by the FIM had it sorted, as soon as heat 20 was finished. Exactly- BSI should have used the best like all the professionals do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted August 29, 2020 Report Share Posted August 29, 2020 (edited) 33 minutes ago, lucifer sam said: The problem is us anoraks will quickly adapt to the scoring system - e.g. it wasn't that hard for me to work out the points last night, as much as I think the new system is daft. It's the more general fans which won't understand the new points system e.g. how a rider can score 6 points in his races and yet end up with 8 Grand Prix points. It's really weird, having two different sets of points, and throws speedway out of kilter from almost every other motorsport where points are scored per race. I actually think the points are easier for non fans now. The heats are qualifiers. Simple. The same as heats in the olympic athletics. Qualifiers. The fastest athletes don't even extert themselves if they are safely through. Qualifiers. Semi finals. Final. Surely that is easier for the layman, who won't be filling out detailed scorecards and counting every point. I never follow the heat scores in detail in the GPs, so the final points were easier for me to follow. Edited August 29, 2020 by Grachan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted August 29, 2020 Report Share Posted August 29, 2020 Just now, Gambo said: I don't do Twitter, and I doubt that the Referee and Meeting Secretary were Twittering at the time. This is what was posted on Twitter, a grab of the scorecard shown on TV, as long as the ref and meeting secretary know what's going on... stuff the fans and viewers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphx Posted August 29, 2020 Report Share Posted August 29, 2020 Cegielski checked tires with some sort of equpiment and Mitas tire hardness was 70 and Anlas 50. Bellamy said that every rider can go with whats the best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambo Posted August 29, 2020 Report Share Posted August 29, 2020 Just now, iainb said: This is what was posted on Twitter, a grab of the scorecard shown on TV, as long as the ref and meeting secretary know what's going on... stuff the fans and viewers The FIM are not responsible for the TV Graphics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted August 29, 2020 Report Share Posted August 29, 2020 1 minute ago, Grachan said: I actually think the points are easier for non fans now. The heats are qualifiers. Simple. The same as heats in the olympic athletics. Qualifiers. The fastest athletes don't even extert themselves if they are safely through. Qualifiers. Semi finals. Final. Surely that is easier for the layman, who won't be filling out detailed scorecards and counting every point. may as well dish the points out before the event if nobody cares how they get them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LagutaRacingFan Posted August 29, 2020 Report Share Posted August 29, 2020 8 minutes ago, Bavarian said: What's all this talk about the Anlas tyres being banned tonight? Seems that Bartek Zmarzlik has initiated an official protest, backed by eleven other GP riders plus two reserves, against the use of the Turkish product in the SGP series. Last night four riders rode the Anlas tyres. By the way, Anlas is an official sponsor and supplier of tyres for the SGP series, but in the last couple of years hardly any one of the GP riders used their product. Last night, the winner Artem Lagutra, the runner up Maciej Janowski, as well as two Danes, Michelsen and Iversen, rode Anlas tyres, and the rest rode Mitas tyres. Now Zmarzlik has objected to teh use of Anlas tyres and claims that their product is not legal (too soft). Anlas tires are softer than Mitas. But FIM are reluctant to ban the Anlas tires due to their sponsorship. The FIM want to test the tires in a laboratory which could take 2-3 months. Zmarzlik and other riders are very unhappy as they cannot use Anlas tires due to sponsorship. Anlas tires have also been sold out because Wroclaw's team have bought them all up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted August 29, 2020 Report Share Posted August 29, 2020 Just now, Gambo said: The FIM are not responsible for the TV Graphics. perhaps they should be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted August 29, 2020 Report Share Posted August 29, 2020 27 minutes ago, lucifer sam said: The problem is us anoraks will quickly adapt to the scoring system - e.g. it wasn't that hard for me to work out the points last night, as much as I think the new system is daft. It's the more general fans which won't understand the new points system e.g. how a rider can score 6 points in his races and yet end up with 8 Grand Prix points. It's really weird, having two different sets of points, and throws speedway out of kilter from almost every other motorsport where points are scored per race. Did anyone complain when Malcolm Simmons or Peter Collins scored 15 points in a Daily Mirror Grand Prix QR in 1976, yet only got 10 GP points? Of course not! While I am not a fan of the new system (I much prefer all points on track counting), anyone with an IQ in double figures or better SHOULD be able to understand it... Anyway, whether I like it or not, it doesn't prevent me from enjoying four blokes engaging in good racing... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbread Posted August 29, 2020 Report Share Posted August 29, 2020 big drama in Polish speedway media about Turkish tyres, have you guys heard something too in Britain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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