Wroclaw GP`s 1 and 2 Friday and Saturday 28th and 29th August

[IainB]

Just now, racers and royals said:

It is- it took me all of 2 minutes after heat 20 to do placings 9 to 16- incidentally Zagar`s last beat Chugunov`s tape exclusion- that`s why Zagar got 8 and Chugunov 7

I watch the GP's to try and relax... not as a brain trainer lol

So the points you score in the qualifiers determine how many GP points you get in the Semi's, positions 5th to 8th... but not in the Final 1st to 4th

I'll watch tonight's with an Excel spreadsheet open on my laptop 

[racers and royals]

Just now, Grachan said:

So, does a last place beat an ef while leading?

Yes of course. The ef didn`t finish the race.

[ray c]

with different race order tonight the meeting could be a  completely different outcome 

[racers and royals]

1 minute ago, iainb said:

I watch the GP's to try and relax... not as a brain trainer lol

So the points you score in the qualifiers determine how many GP points you get in the Semi's, positions 5th to 8th... but not in the Final 1st to 4th

I'll watch tonight's with an Excel spreadsheet open on my laptop 

It also determines what order you get to pick in the semi`s

[IainB]

2 minutes ago, racers and royals said:

It also determines what order you get to pick in the semi`s

Now that I do understand!

[Grand Central]

6 minutes ago, Grachan said:

How has that changed? The final block of races are just as significant to the semis now as they were last year.

The main problem last night was that 7 riders were streets ahead of the others so most of the qualifiers were obvious after 4 races apiece.

Because the points scored in the heats for those who do qualify for the semis are not counting towards the championship anymore. Getting through by a whisker or by a margin doesn't matter. Dropped points will seem to matter less ... Just get through.

Qualify for the semis and you can then your final score is decided on just the next one or two races regardless of your score before, be it 7 or 15.

It changes everythIng . As you will see in the meetings to come as the riders get clued up.

[Grand Central]

4 minutes ago, racers and royals said:

It also determines what order you get to pick in the semi`s

True, but quite a few riders seem to be fairly clueless about gate choices anyway.

Do they really go chasing points in the heats with the mental processes working on their ability to choose gates so much later. I think championship points are a better incentive, surely.

[racers and royals]

1 minute ago, Grand Central said:

True, but quite a few riders seem to be fairly clueless about gate choices anyway.

Do they really go chasing points in the heats with the mental processes working on their ability to choose gates so much later. I think championship points are a better incentive, surely.

The incentive starts with the pick order which then can carry on to better Championship points.

[Grand Central]

2 minutes ago, racers and royals said:

The incentive starts with the pick order which then can carry on to better Championship points.

I get what you're saying but I just don't think it comes close to banking championship points in every race. For the riders. Or for the spectator.

Edited August 29, 2020 by Grand Central

[Mark]

3 hours ago, tellboy said:

Don't know if you have realised what is happening in the world at the moment,but that has impacted on how many people are allowed into stadiums at the moment.

tickets were still on sale yesterday, they haven't sold the reduced amount. 

[NeilWatson]

16 minutes ago, iainb said:

I watch the GP's to try and relax... not as a brain trainer lol

So the points you score in the qualifiers determine how many GP points you get in the Semi's, positions 5th to 8th... but not in the Final 1st to 4th

I'll watch tonight's with an Excel spreadsheet open on my laptop 

No

3rd in the semi-finals gains 12 or 11 GP points, 4th 10 or 9 GP points, determined by the rider's placing after Ht 20.

[ytsejam]

Using no names as an example, just a scenario.Someone gets to the semi’s with 7 points another one gets there with 15. 15 man wins his semi, 7 man gets second. In the final. 7 man (now 9 on the night) wins and gets 20 points whilst 15 man (now 18) misses the gate, finishes last and goes home with 14 points!!
Now on what universal planet are the MORONS who think this is a good idea or fair, living on?!....
Speedway is often seen as a joke these days (especially when it comes to British speedway) but the GP’s did use to come across as professional and fair (on the whole) but this farcical change just makes a mockery of the sports elite event.

[NeilWatson]

24 minutes ago, ray c said:

yes agree except the rider who finished 4 in the final only got the same as the semi -final riders which was the only thing that needed to be changed ?

No

4th in the final gains 14 GP points, semi-final riders gain 12,11, 10 0r 9

[IainB]

1 minute ago, NeilWatson said:

No

3rd in the semi-finals gains 12 or 11 GP points, 4th 10 or 9 GP points, determined by the rider's placing after Ht 20.

Not aimed at you... but I've kind of lost interest already, which is my general point. Why is it so damn complicated?

[IainB]

1 minute ago, ytsejam said:

Using no names as an example, just a scenario.Someone gets to the semi’s with 7 points another one gets there with 15. 15 man wins his semi, 7 man gets second. In the final. 7 man (now 9 on the night) wins and gets 20 points whilst 15 man (now 18) misses the gate, finishes last and goes home with 14 points!!
Now on what universal planet are the MORONS who think this is a good idea or fair, living on?!....
Speedway is often seen as a joke these days (especially when it comes to British speedway) but the GP’s did use to come across as professional and fair (on the whole) but this farcical change just makes a mockery of the sports elite event.

... a bit like getting 2 points in a league meeting for "drawing" away from home!

[NeilWatson]

Just now, ytsejam said:

Using no names as an example, just a scenario.Someone gets to the semi’s with 7 points another one gets there with 15. 15 man wins his semi, 7 man gets second. In the final. 7 man (now 9 on the night) wins and gets 20 points whilst 15 man (now 18) misses the gate, finishes last and goes home with 14 points!!
Now on what universal planet are the MORONS who think this is a good idea or fair, living on?!....
Speedway is often seen as a joke these days (especially when it comes to British speedway) but the GP’s did use to come across as professional and fair (on the whole) but this farcical change just makes a mockery of the sports elite event.

In a way it's no different to most individual meetings in the UK - the leader after 20 races still has to negotiate a grand final to be the winner.

[ytsejam]

Just now, NeilWatson said:

In a way it's no different to most individual meetings in the UK - the leader after 20 races still has to negotiate a grand final to be the winner.

Uhmm...yes...but you said it yourself ....an INDIVIDUAL meeting!!....

If the GP World champion was decided on one night like it used to be, then this system would probably be the best way, but it’s not.
The previous system, if not totally perfect, was not broken, so why break it into a million pieces and just randomly put it back together again which is what it seems the lunatics who are running the asylum have done!

[IainB]

1 minute ago, ytsejam said:

Uhmm...yes...but you said it yourself ....an INDIVIDUAL meeting!!....

If the GP World champion was decided on one night like it used to be, then this system would probably be the best way, but it’s not.
The previous system, if not totally perfect, was not broken, so why break it into a million pieces and just randomly put it back together again which is what it seems the lunatics who are running the asylum have done!

I think the only way this points system works is if it's used in the old style "knock-out" system, when riders progressed through the meeting by coming 1st or 2nd, 2 3rd or 4th's and you were gone, anything other than that and you need to be using standard cumulative 3,2,1,0 and maybe double points for a final appearance

[screm]

If it not broke don't fix it. The scoring system as it was wasn't broken.

[False dawn]

Just now, NeilWatson said:

In a way it's no different to most individual meetings in the UK - the leader after 20 races still has to negotiate a grand final to be the winner.

No offence Neil, but the big difference is that those meetings aren't part of a series. 

I'm at a loss as to why they changed the system. We heard last night that they want competitors to keep pushing throughout the meeting, to make every race matter. Well every race did matter under the old system, not just for the one meeting, but right until the last race of the series. If you've got a reasonable score during the qualifying races now, the only thing you're racing for is gate choice. This can be critical but not always (last night for example). I, for one, never had a problem with the GP winner not necessarily being the top scorer. The meeting final and the points scored counted for different things. And you could easily work out each competitors meeting and year to date series score as I was doing race by race during the meeting in Torun last October.
As others have said, if you really wanted to achieve an improved solution (?), simply increase the points awarded in the final (and maybe even in the semis as well).