Wroclaw GP`s 1 and 2 Friday and Saturday 28th and 29th August

[PHILIPRISING]

8 minutes ago, Grand Central said:

Somewhere in there was the merest hint that you think they were wrong to change it. 

ONLY a hint ... don't understand the FIM argument to formalise all systems of scoring across the various disciplines. Speedway is different. Accept it and move on. 

[Grachan]

I had reservations about the new scoring, but I thought it worked fine. The Lindgren situation added to the drama rather than take anything away.

It may not work so well in the later rounds with two riders fighting for the title, but on the basis of this one I had less problem with it than I thought I would.

I didn't think it really needed changing from last year, but for this entire topic to just be people complaining about it seems a bit excessive. 

I enjoyed the meeting. Not sure if Laguta can keep this up for the entire series, but a great start for him.

[Fromafar]

15 minutes ago, Grachan said:

I had reservations about the new scoring, but I thought it worked fine. The Lindgren situation added to the drama rather than take anything away.

It may not work so well in the later rounds with two riders fighting for the title, but on the basis of this one I had less problem with it than I thought I would.

I didn't think it really needed changing from last year, but for this entire topic to just be people complaining about it seems a bit excessive. 

I enjoyed the meeting. Not sure if Laguta can keep this up for the entire series, but a great start for him.

It’s a forum, just other people’s opinions.They obviously differ from yours.

[r8gdp]

45 minutes ago, PHILIPRISING said:

THE last race of the meeting should always determine the winner. Gary Havelock won his World title in Heat 17 ... the last three races were pointless.

After several different systems over the years, the most recent prior to tonight worked just fine. 

 

Not to Gary havelock he d already done the business 

[Grand Central]

Mind you seems a little rough to single Havvy out for this distinction ... Mauger in 79 and Olsen 78 also won the title in heat 17 ... As did many many others going further back. Perhaps Gary in 92 just adds the correct frisson of derision to make a point.

[chunky]

42 minutes ago, Grand Central said:

Mind you seems a little rough to single Havvy out for this distinction ... Mauger in 79 and Olsen 78 also won the title in heat 17 ... As did many many others going further back. Perhaps Gary in 92 just adds the correct frisson of derision to make a point.

You know, I always felt there was a simple solution to that. Keep the same race draw/format, but leave the order of the last four races until after heat 16. Not perfect, obviously, but you could just make sure that it all went down to the last race.

The same problem I have with figure skating; the leading contenders compete in a pre-drawn order. Trouble is, they have to "leave room" after the early skaters, so even if the first skater is the leader, and produces a perfect programme, they cannot be awarded perfect marks. Simple solution - skate in reverse order...

Edited August 28, 2020 by chunky

[chunky]

2 hours ago, r8gdp said:

Me personally a one off meeting  5 rides no semi finals or finals . For me with this field every race would be a pressure race one last place and your done no second chances that's pressure 

...and luck will play a much bigger part - which isn't right...

[Tim G]

3 hours ago, Steve Shovlar said:

Was last time but think they have other payment methods available. Check out their Facebook page and ask them. They are quick to reply.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/310807899443643

will add you get all PPVs plus catch up. Plus all football, every match, plus all sports channels from Bein to all American, Aussie, British, you name it. 34 US dollars for 6 months, 64 dollars a year. All through IPTV Smarters.

Thanks for the reply.

I had it before but stopped it when it went to bitcoin. It’s an excellent service.

I have stayed away from Facebook so might see if my old login still works (which I doubt)and have a look on the site.

[Mark]

that was a decent meeting but the scoring system has many flaws.  Complete rubbish.

Crowd non existent which was disappointing, thought the Polish fanatics would support. 

The track was nothing like a league match which was a huge success.  But that caught me out as riders did better or worse than originally thought. 

[mikebv]

The huge plus for the SGP was that every position in every race counted because every point counted..

Now it no longer works like that..

Maybe they should call the 20 heats 'qualifiers' to the Semi Finals and Grand Final?.. 

(As that is effectively what they are)

That would then make it a bit clearer to the 'layman' watching as the scores achieved during the meeting for the riders then have zero relevance other than gaining their final position in the meeting if outside the top 8. 

Or their qualification for the final races if within the top 8 qualifiers..

Nigel and Kelvin could mention the heats as "Semi Final Qualifiers" at every opportunity to push home the understanding of what's actually going on.

[tellboy]

5 hours ago, Mark said:

that was a decent meeting but the scoring system has many flaws.  Complete rubbish.

Crowd non existent which was disappointing, thought the Polish fanatics would support. 

The track was nothing like a league match which was a huge success.  But that caught me out as riders did better or worse than originally thought. 

Don't know if you have realised what is happening in the world at the moment,but that has impacted on how many people are allowed into stadiums at the moment.

[arnieg]

1 hour ago, mikebv said:

The huge plus for the SGP was that every position in every race counted because every point counted..

Now it no longer works like that

Yes - Why did Laguta even come out for his final ride in ht 19? There were no GP points at stake and he'd already guaranteed himself a first gate pick in his Semi

[fatface]

9 hours ago, PHILIPRISING said:

ONLY a hint ... don't understand the FIM argument to formalise all systems of scoring across the various disciplines. Speedway is different. Accept it and move on. 

I'm well up for innovation and evolution. Change is healthy. But this particular change is just change for change's sake. And it's a change that could easily devalue the product...

As opposed to the previous format (which after years of GP tinkering, was the fairest) every race mattered. If say Zmarzlik and Woffinden are going to head to head at the top of the standings, then the heat they clash is a two (or more) pointer. It matters. But if it's just a qualifier towards the semis, they are much less incentivized to race it cut throat and - if they miss the start - settle for safe second or third.  In the scheme of things, it matters less and is - potentially - irrelevant.

Worse still, the new format opens up a greater chance of race fixing. Let's say Woffinden has sailed through his first four heats and has 12 points and is safe as a leading qualifier for the semis going into the last round of heats. Zmarzlik has finished on 8 points is sweating on a place in the semis. Woffinden lines up against three others on 6 or 7 points (non title rivals) in his last heat. I'm sure you can see what I am driving at......

Without every point mattering, Woffinden would actually have less to gain winning his heat than trailing in last and scuppering Zmarzlik's chances.

I just don't think it has been properly thought through and discussed. I get why the FIM - from a distance - might like standardisation, but the onus is on the GP organisers to map out these scenarios and show why it is isn't possible to drive a square peg into a round hole.  

[Bavarian]

1 hour ago, tellboy said:

Don't know if you have realised what is happening in the world at the moment,but that has impacted on how many people are allowed into stadiums at the moment.

More people were allowed into the stadium that actually went last night. There were still tickets available, the SGP was not sold out even with a limited crowd capacity. That never happened in the Polish Ekstraliga this year when Sparta Wroclaw rides their home meetings. No tickets left over. It was a disappointing support last night. Perhaps tonight will be better, but the weather could spoil ist all.

Edited August 29, 2020 by Bavarian

[PHILIPRISING]

9 hours ago, Grand Central said:

Mind you seems a little rough to single Havvy out for this distinction ... Mauger in 79 and Olsen 78 also won the title in heat 17 ... As did many many others going further back. Perhaps Gary in 92 just adds the correct frisson of derision to make a point.

NOT singling Havvy out, just an example of why so many World Finals were never actually decided in the final race of the night. 

[Bavarian]

10 hours ago, PHILIPRISING said:

ONLY a hint ... don't understand the FIM argument to formalise all systems of scoring across the various disciplines. Speedway is different. Accept it and move on. 

The change was innovated by a man who has absolutely no clue what speedway really is, by Jorge Viegas, the Portuguese president of the FIM, who told Arando Castagna to get this in order and in line with the scoring of all the other FIM Motorcycle world championship disciplines, because it does look odd to an outsider (him!) when a winner of a GP could end up with less poinst than another rider who placed behind him in the final.

Well. the winner of each race gets the most points in speedway, too as we already score each race with 3-2-1-0 points. But a GP does not have just one race, there are 23 of them.

The new scoring system only makes it over complicated for the fan to follow the point standings during a meeting, with two different sets of points. Totally unneccasary change.  

[DutchGrasstrack]

My pics from yesterdays first GP: https://www.baansportfansite.nl/nieuws/1994/artem-laguta-pakt-zijn-eerste-speedway-gp-overwinning-in-wroclaw.html 

[Navigator1900]

30 minutes ago, falcace said:

I'm well up for innovation and evolution. Change is healthy. But this particular change is just change for change's sake. And it's a change that could easily devalue the product...

As opposed to the previous format (which after years of GP tinkering, was the fairest) every race mattered. If say Zmarzlik and Woffinden are going to head to head at the top of the standings, then the heat they clash is a two (or more) pointer. It matters. But if it's just a qualifier towards the semis, they are much less incentivized to race it cut throat and - if they miss the start - settle for safe second or third.  In the scheme of things, it matters less and is - potentially - irrelevant.

Worse still, the new format opens up a greater chance of race fixing. Let's say Woffinden has sailed through his first four heats and has 12 points and is safe as a leading qualifier for the semis going into the last round of heats. Zmarzlik has finished on 8 points is sweating on a place in the semis. Woffinden lines up against three others on 6 or 7 points (non title rivals) in his last heat. I'm sure you can see what I am driving at......

Without every point mattering, Woffinden would actually have less to gain winning his heat than trailing in last and scuppering Zmarzlik's chances.

I just don't think it has been properly thought through and discussed. I get why the FIM - from a distance - might like standardisation, but the onus is on the GP organisers to map out these scenarios and show why it is isn't possible to drive a square peg into a round hole.  

VERY true words, this new points system "sucks". We should call for changes as soon as possible. It is a joke that a "offensive" rider like Lindgren scores only 7 points before the semis and in then goes home with a total of 16 points .... in the near future riders will be tempted to take higher risks in the semifinals. That will create too dangerous riding = more accidents.

Have a look at road racing, after serious accidents discussion start if it would be necessary to change the tracks. On the other hand, Longtrack these days, the ride on big wide tracks with only 5 riders per heat due to safety reasons .....

The whole SGP series is heading to a lottery world championship from my point of view.

[racers and royals]

Round 2 tonight 6pm UK time

links( more to follow)

http://www.drhtv.com.pl/drhtv-2.html  (Pol)

http://www.maniak.tv/mk5  (Pol)

https://daddylive.live/embed/stream-73.php ( Pol)

https://daddylive.live/embed/stream-32.php (Eng )

http://totalsport.me/sport5.html  (Eng ?)

Edited August 29, 2020 by racers and royals

[SPEEDY69]

I'm not that bothered about the scoring system. It's the same for all of them so don't really get the horror reactions. Fair play to Lindgren, he did it perfectly. We're others who'd qualified testing things in their last rides? Didn't some of them settle for places as they knew it was enough? So what, the big race was where it all counted. Call the heats the 'qualifying' if you like.