Time to send a GB/England touring team abroad?

[racers and royals]

4 minutes ago, arnieg said:

Wasn't there a suggestion they would have to ride home matches in Poland?

Not sure about that- this season with Covid - yes that could have happened. 

[iris123]

Daugavpils have an advantage in that there is no league in Latvia and so no, BSPA/SCB that could veto the project on the grounds it will have a negative effect on their home league

That is the scenario that happened here in Hamburg, when our local Ice Hockey team folded. A franchise wanted to set up a team to play in the Russian Continental League or whatever it is called. This was turned down by the German ice hockey federation, because of the possible negative effect to the Bundesliga....

[Red Flag]

25 minutes ago, arnieg said:

Wasn't there a suggestion they would have to ride home matches in Poland?

I’m pretty sure that was the case

[Pinny]

Yes, Poland insisted Daugavpils had to race all their home meetings in Poland which of course completely defeats the object of having a Latvian based club, who by my understanding actually do pretty well for crowds etc.

I think people really do need to come to terms with the fact Speedway is finished in the United Kingdom. OK, some clubs still do well enough but over the three leagues, how many? 5 or 6 at a push. Glasgow apparently do well, but their promoters have thrown so much at it and their crowds were starting to shrink.

Even going back 20 years, a crowd in the second tier of anything less than 1000 was classed as poor. Now anything over 6-800 is classed as good. Prices in operating the sport have gone up, riders demand more money etc. Add to that ancient promoters who still insist on putting on a 70's style show, it is no wonder crowds are falling rapidly.

A night out at speedway simply isn't attractive enough for youngsters. Standing in a clapped out stadium, drinking over priced pints of lager served in plastic cups listening to I shot the sheriff whilst watching tractors going round a track half the night isnt worth what they are paying to get in. No matter how good the racing is, which lets be honest is poor to say the least at times.

You can spend the same, or less going to your local boozer with mates for a night out or out for a meal and a few drinks etc.

And that is before you try beginning to explain the way the sport runs. Telling them the exciting number 1 rider for the home side wont be there next week as he is riding for his other club. That number 6 who actually over takes? He is a guest rider and wont be here next week. It just sounds like a farce.

I loved speedway, it was a big part of my youth but sadly it is a thing of the past in the UK. It is no better supported than a lot of non league football now. And the quicker people accept that and move on, the better.

[IainB]

8 hours ago, Pinny said:

Yes, Poland insisted Daugavpils had to race all their home meetings in Poland which of course completely defeats the object of having a Latvian based club, who by my understanding actually do pretty well for crowds etc.

I think people really do need to come to terms with the fact Speedway is finished in the United Kingdom. OK, some clubs still do well enough but over the three leagues, how many? 5 or 6 at a push. Glasgow apparently do well, but their promoters have thrown so much at it and their crowds were starting to shrink.

Even going back 20 years, a crowd in the second tier of anything less than 1000 was classed as poor. Now anything over 6-800 is classed as good. Prices in operating the sport have gone up, riders demand more money etc. Add to that ancient promoters who still insist on putting on a 70's style show, it is no wonder crowds are falling rapidly.

A night out at speedway simply isn't attractive enough for youngsters. Standing in a clapped out stadium, drinking over priced pints of lager served in plastic cups listening to I shot the sheriff whilst watching tractors going round a track half the night isnt worth what they are paying to get in. No matter how good the racing is, which lets be honest is poor to say the least at times.

You can spend the same, or less going to your local boozer with mates for a night out or out for a meal and a few drinks etc.

And that is before you try beginning to explain the way the sport runs. Telling them the exciting number 1 rider for the home side wont be there next week as he is riding for his other club. That number 6 who actually over takes? He is a guest rider and wont be here next week. It just sounds like a farce.

I loved speedway, it was a big part of my youth but sadly it is a thing of the past in the UK. It is no better supported than a lot of non league football now. And the quicker people accept that and move on, the better.

I agree with a lot of what you say... but also a lot of what you say applies to Poland too, from what I've seen of it this year a lot of it is the same, if not worse than what happens in the UK as I've mentioned in a post elsewhere. Where there is a glaring difference is in the attitude towards the franchise/team and the quality of the stadiums, I don't know how much a beer and a burger is or how much admission is, though isn't it comparative to what it is over here? Why are fans turning up in their thousands every week to watch Rybnik get spanked on a dusty track with tractors going around the track more than the Speedway bikes? And even in Poland you're seeing the rules being stretched with guests being drafted in, riders riding on passports of convenience, heat leaders riding at number 8.

Their crowd levels probably stem back from the days of communism, where there couldn't have been much else to do other than go to a subsidised sporting event, taking your kids and those kids are now the young crowd that we see in the stadiums today.

Now here's a controversial point, I've been to Poland a few times on holiday over the last 10 years and not that many people speak English, it's got better though, the first time I went for example all of the restaurant menus were in Polish, more recently the menus have been in Polish with an English translation underneath as obviously they want to appeal to English speakers to spend their money, you watch a film on TV, a Hollywood blockbuster and it's dubbed into Polish, often by one Polish bloke doing all the voices... so why would you sit in and watch that... or go to the cinema... or Netflix and chill

As more and more Poles learn English they'll join the mass market that is the global entertainment industry... so they should enjoy the glory days while they last because they may not last forever

[Pinny]

54 minutes ago, iainb said:

I agree with a lot of what you say... but also a lot of what you say applies to Poland too, from what I've seen of it this year a lot of it is the same, if not worse than what happens in the UK as I've mentioned in a post elsewhere. Where there is a glaring difference is in the attitude towards the franchise/team and the quality of the stadiums, I don't know how much a beer and a burger is or how much admission is, though isn't it comparative to what it is over here? Why are fans turning up in their thousands every week to watch Rybnik get spanked on a dusty track with tractors going around the track more than the Speedway bikes? And even in Poland you're seeing the rules being stretched with guests being drafted in, riders riding on passports of convenience, heat leaders riding at number 8.

Their crowd levels probably stem back from the days of communism, where there couldn't have been much else to do other than go to a subsidised sporting event, taking your kids and those kids are now the young crowd that we see in the stadiums today.

Now here's a controversial point, I've been to Poland a few times on holiday over the last 10 years and not that many people speak English, it's got better though, the first time I went for example all of the restaurant menus were in Polish, more recently the menus have been in Polish with an English translation underneath as obviously they want to appeal to English speakers to spend their money, you watch a film on TV, a Hollywood blockbuster and it's dubbed into Polish, often by one Polish bloke doing all the voices... so why would you sit in and watch that... or go to the cinema... or Netflix and chill

As more and more Poles learn English they'll join the mass market that is the global entertainment industry... so they should enjoy the glory days while they last because they may not last forever

The top riders in the world ride in Poland so it is more marketable. The presentation over there seems a lot better than the UK music. The prices are dirt cheap (so I am told) and most clubs are bankrolled by local councils/sponsors. 9 times out of 10 the racing is better. Also, the Poles dont really have a decent football league. Their top player plays in Germany and I would be struggling to find any other top class Polish footballers. They dont follow rugby. So thats two huge sports that the UK is associated with on a large scale that Poland arent.

Their stadiums in general are much better. Theres plenty of reasons why it thrives there and not in the UK.

I remember Newport (Queensway Meadows) was classed as one of the better stadiums in the UK. Lets be honest, it was a total dump. When Stoney had it and when the Mallets did. It was a dump. I attended Swindon and Reading regular, both of them were dumps. Hadn't been given an upgrade since the 70s/80s at least. Stoke was an absolute toilet. Glasgow and Edinburgh were rubbish holes. As were 99 percent of UK speedway stadiums.

You have stadiums that are in the middle of a field. Its fine for speedway fans, and I mean proper speedway fans. They would stand in cow dung watching speedway. But newcomers will not like it. And they wont like standing in a crappy, ancient, damp stadium listening to music from the 60s/70s and 80s. Paying nearly 4 quid for a pint of warm fosters in a plastic cup. And whatever the prices of food are etc. Which were no value for money when I last attended so I cant see that of changing.

The sport in the UK has just been neglected, it hasn't moved with the times, the prices are way ahead of the times, is run by a bunch of buffoons, the list goes on. It would take an absolute miracle to get the crowd levels anything like it was even in the early 2000's, let alone the 90's and 80's. Its finished. I am just being realistic. I would love nothing more than it to boom again and my home town and every other club thats lost the sport to get a club again. But it is not going to happen. And the quicker thats accepted, the better.

[IainB]

18 minutes ago, Pinny said:

The top riders in the world ride in Poland so it is more marketable. The presentation over there seems a lot better than the UK music. The prices are dirt cheap (so I am told) and most clubs are bankrolled by local councils/sponsors. 9 times out of 10 the racing is better. Also, the Poles dont really have a decent football league. Their top player plays in Germany and I would be struggling to find any other top class Polish footballers. They dont follow rugby. So thats two huge sports that the UK is associated with on a large scale that Poland arent.

Their stadiums in general are much better. Theres plenty of reasons why it thrives there and not in the UK.

I remember Newport (Queensway Meadows) was classed as one of the better stadiums in the UK. Lets be honest, it was a total dump. When Stoney had it and when the Mallets did. It was a dump. I attended Swindon and Reading regular, both of them were dumps. Hadn't been given an upgrade since the 70s/80s at least. Stoke was an absolute toilet. Glasgow and Edinburgh were rubbish holes. As were 99 percent of UK speedway stadiums.

You have stadiums that are in the middle of a field. Its fine for speedway fans, and I mean proper speedway fans. They would stand in cow dung watching speedway. But newcomers will not like it. And they wont like standing in a crappy, ancient, damp stadium listening to music from the 60s/70s and 80s. Paying nearly 4 quid for a pint of warm fosters in a plastic cup. And whatever the prices of food are etc. Which were no value for money when I last attended so I cant see that of changing.

The sport in the UK has just been neglected, it hasn't moved with the times, the prices are way ahead of the times, is run by a bunch of buffoons, the list goes on. It would take an absolute miracle to get the crowd levels anything like it was even in the early 2000's, let alone the 90's and 80's. Its finished. I am just being realistic. I would love nothing more than it to boom again and my home town and every other club thats lost the sport to get a club again. But it is not going to happen. And the quicker thats accepted, the better.

I thought Newport was quite a nice little setup tbh, I only ever went to the New Year Classic's though. I don't know if you've seen any of the racing from Poland this year but the racing has mostly been dire with the match score usually never in doubt after the first 4 races. The music seems to consist of Now That's What I Call Heavy Metal Vol 1 from the 1980's as the bloke that does the commentary for Premier Sports seems to like playing Name That Tune and is always mentioning AC/DC, Metaillica, Van Halen etc. I've seen fans drinking from plastic cups.

I agree with all of your other points, especially the lack of other sports and council subsidy... Isn't netball big over there too? Is that an indoor winter sport do you know?

[racers and royals]

Daugavpils were never ordered to play the matches in Poland( Covid yes if things in Latvia/Poland  prevented the away teams from going). As i have previously said there were a lot of conditions for Daugavpils riding in the Extraleague- but riding home matches in Poland wasn`t one of them !!!. 

[Ben91]

It’s worth noting that Speedway in Poland is cheap for us but not necessarily for the Polish. The average national wage in Poland is just shy of £10,000 less than the average national wage in Britain (from a quick Google search). A night at the speedway for a Pole may still be better value for money than for a British fan attending in Britain but it isn’t cheap when compared to the living wage. 

I’m not too sure what the costs of going to a league meeting are in Poland but I know the individual meeting at Bydgoszcz the day after the Toruń GP last year only cost £5 to get into and the field looked roughly Championship standard to me. You’re looking at over three times that price to watch second tier Speedway here. When I went to Ostrow a few years back a beer was less than £2. 

[Mr. Clemens]

 

A Polish friend of mine said 'don't run away with the idea that speedway is popular throughout the country.

There are areas where it is popular but a lot of areas where it isn't'.

 

 

 

 

[iris123]

Just now, Mr. Clemens said:

 

A Polish friend of mine said 'don't run away with the idea that speedway is popular throughout the country.

There are areas where it is popular but a lot of areas where it isn't'.

 

 

 

 

Shock and horror. Well ain't that a surprise !!!

[Mr. Clemens]

6 minutes ago, iris123 said:

Shock and horror. Well ain't that a surprise !!!

 

 

Why would you be surprised/ 

Can you explain ??

 

 

[topsoil]

Basically the sport just needs people who are enthusiastic and positive. I've witnessed it with a local non-league football team. They were relegated and last season finished the season in their lowest ever position. A new board came in, showed that they were willing to work hard, brought a bit of enthusiasm and as a result, sponsorship from local and not so local businesses has exploded, which is no mean feat in this climate. And all this despite being in a lower standard of football than ever before.

It's like the Premier League football on BT / Sky. We are constantly told it's the best league in the world, the players are made out to be superstars and the games are hyped up. As a result fans lap it up. But if we are constantly told the sport is dying / dead, we will believe this as well. I often think speedway fans are the sport's own worst enemy.

[Ben91]

9 hours ago, topsoil said:

Basically the sport just needs people who are enthusiastic and positive. I've witnessed it with a local non-league football team. They were relegated and last season finished the season in their lowest ever position. A new board came in, showed that they were willing to work hard, brought a bit of enthusiasm and as a result, sponsorship from local and not so local businesses has exploded, which is no mean feat in this climate. And all this despite being in a lower standard of football than ever before.

It's like the Premier League football on BT / Sky. We are constantly told it's the best league in the world, the players are made out to be superstars and the games are hyped up. As a result fans lap it up. But if we are constantly told the sport is dying / dead, we will believe this as well. I often think speedway fans are the sport's own worst enemy.

I can’t agree with that last sentence. It isn’t the job of the fans to make the product look good. They should be the sounding board for the people running the sport to know whether they are running a product that is entertaining or not. 

Imagine watching a Premier League match between Spurs and Leicester for example on Sky and the commentators trying to explain how Winks and Dier are playing for Spurs, Barnes and Albrighton are playing for Leicester but next week in the Championship Winks and Barnes will be team mates for Watford as they play against Stoke who will be fielding Dier and Albrighton. It’s an instant credibility drainer. And that’s not on the fans, it’s on the rules and rule makers. 

[Pinny]

5 minutes ago, Ben91 said:

I can’t agree with that last sentence. It isn’t the job of the fans to make the product look good. They should be the sounding board for the people running the sport to know whether they are running a product that is entertaining or not. 

Imagine watching a Premier League match between Spurs and Leicester for example on Sky and the commentators trying to explain how Winks and Dier are playing for Spurs, Barnes and Albrighton are playing for Leicester but next week in the Championship Winks and Barnes will be team mates for Watford as they play against Stoke who will be fielding Dier and Albrighton. It’s an instant credibility drainer. And that’s not on the fans, it’s on the rules and rule makers. 

Agree. And it is around the time of doubling up/down that the standard of both leagues started to weaken a lot.

When it was first introduced, it was only for Premier League riders to be able to double up in the Elite League. So an Elite League team would use two Premier League riders at 6/7 and use whichever one was available. The doubling up rider would never miss a meeting for his Premier League club and they would always take preference . If Rider A rode for Hull in the Premier League and Kings Lynn in the Elite League, Kings Lynn would of had to use Rider B any time there was a fixture clash.

Then I think a season or two later they also introduced doubling down, where two Elite League riders with an average of 6.00 or less could share a place in a Premier League team. Pedersen/Robson I think done it at Newcastle, Kylmakoorpi and Ruud at Arena. It was then when things just turned messy, I think that was 2003.

The season after the EL brought in the grading system and scrapped the doubling up. And has just got worse in quality ever since.

Have had the debate with a few people on here who say the standard of rider back 20 years ago wasn't as good as it is now. When the Premier League was full of top riders,  Stonehewer, Wilson, Carr, Watson, Schott, Topinka, Parker, Bird, Zagar... the list is endless. Fair enough, their averages were all higher as their were more teams in the League but to say the current standard of second tier riders is better than before is barmy. Someone even said Howarth would of averaged 10+ in that company. Lol.

I have named a few reasons why I think the sports fallen on its arse in the UK, but in all honesty there is an endless list of reasons. Weakening the product each year is another factor. I wouldn't say its the reason newbies don't attend as they wouldn't know the difference, but a massive number of fans have walked away from the sport. Being treated poorly by a promoter, watering down of the teams etc... it all contributes.

So we have an out dated product, terrible stadiums and viewing conditions, over priced catering and entrance prices, a year on year diluted product as four big reasons why the sport is in such a mess. And there will be many more. Add them all up and then try finding a solution to bring the sport back to a modern day, attractive product. It would take a Euro Millions winner with a massive heart for Speedway to even scratch the surface. Not very promising, is it?

[Ben91]

27 minutes ago, Pinny said:

Agree. And it is around the time of doubling up/down that the standard of both leagues started to weaken a lot.

When it was first introduced, it was only for Premier League riders to be able to double up in the Elite League. So an Elite League team would use two Premier League riders at 6/7 and use whichever one was available. The doubling up rider would never miss a meeting for his Premier League club and they would always take preference . If Rider A rode for Hull in the Premier League and Kings Lynn in the Elite League, Kings Lynn would of had to use Rider B any time there was a fixture clash.

Then I think a season or two later they also introduced doubling down, where two Elite League riders with an average of 6.00 or less could share a place in a Premier League team. Pedersen/Robson I think done it at Newcastle, Kylmakoorpi and Ruud at Arena. It was then when things just turned messy, I think that was 2003.

The season after the EL brought in the grading system and scrapped the doubling up. And has just got worse in quality ever since.

Have had the debate with a few people on here who say the standard of rider back 20 years ago wasn't as good as it is now. When the Premier League was full of top riders,  Stonehewer, Wilson, Carr, Watson, Schott, Topinka, Parker, Bird, Zagar... the list is endless. Fair enough, their averages were all higher as their were more teams in the League but to say the current standard of second tier riders is better than before is barmy. Someone even said Howarth would of averaged 10+ in that company. Lol.

I have named a few reasons why I think the sports fallen on its arse in the UK, but in all honesty there is an endless list of reasons. Weakening the product each year is another factor. I wouldn't say its the reason newbies don't attend as they wouldn't know the difference, but a massive number of fans have walked away from the sport. Being treated poorly by a promoter, watering down of the teams etc... it all contributes.

So we have an out dated product, terrible stadiums and viewing conditions, over priced catering and entrance prices, a year on year diluted product as four big reasons why the sport is in such a mess. And there will be many more. Add them all up and then try finding a solution to bring the sport back to a modern day, attractive product. It would take a Euro Millions winner with a massive heart for Speedway to even scratch the surface. Not very promising, is it?

Half of the beauty of those big names in the league was also that you only saw them once or twice a season. As a Rye fan it was an event when Stoney or Topinka came to town for example, because it didn’t happen every week. These days you see every team visit you at least twice and the novelty of seeing a different set of riders each week isn’t there. No doubt bonus points being included in averages made a difference in a way but there is no chance a rider like Howarth could have held a torch to the riders you’ve listed above. There actually was a worthwhile quality difference from league to league.

[Pinny]

6 minutes ago, Ben91 said:

Half of the beauty of those big names in the league was also that you only saw them once or twice a season. As a Rye fan it was an event when Stoney or Topinka came to town for example, because it didn’t happen every week. These days you see every team visit you at least twice and the novelty of seeing a different set of riders each week isn’t there. No doubt bonus points being included in averages made a difference in a way but there is no chance a rider like Howarth could have held a torch to the riders you’ve listed above. There actually was a worthwhile quality difference from league to league.

Would depend from memory. You would have some teams coming twice or even three teams . Back in the day of Premier Trophy, Knock Out Cup, Premier League. Plus challenges/friendlies. It was usually the Northern sides who came down South once a season.

Agree about there being a buzz when the big guns came to town. As a Newport fan, whenever Workington or Sheffield came, I always used to look forward to heats 1, 13 and 15 most watching the likes of Watson, Henriksson and Smart take on Stoney or Wilson.

I suppose back in those days there was loyalty between riders and clubs as well. Would never see the constant club swapping for riders that you do now.

[Pinny]

21 hours ago, iainb said:

I thought Newport was quite a nice little setup tbh, I only ever went to the New Year Classic's though. I don't know if you've seen any of the racing from Poland this year but the racing has mostly been dire with the match score usually never in doubt after the first 4 races. The music seems to consist of Now That's What I Call Heavy Metal Vol 1 from the 1980's as the bloke that does the commentary for Premier Sports seems to like playing Name That Tune and is always mentioning AC/DC, Metaillica, Van Halen etc. I've seen fans drinking from plastic cups.

I agree with all of your other points, especially the lack of other sports and council subsidy... Isn't netball big over there too? Is that an indoor winter sport do you know?

Newport wasn't too bad a set up as far as a speedway stadium is concerned, but in general it was a dump. A 1/4 finished bar under the grandstand which flooded every time it rained, weeds around the whole perimeter of the stadium, shoddy catering facilities etc. It could of been a lot better, I remember Tim Stone had began turning some of the rooms behind the steel shutters in the main stand into corporate boxers for sponsors etc but before they could be finished he had alienated a lot of potential sponsors and fans and that was that.

I have no idea what music they listen to in Poland, OK maybe it is 80s or 90's music at the speedway. There isn't anything wrong with music from that era of course, as long as suits the scene. At certain tracks around the UK, you'd have all sorts of depressing rubbish from all eras.  The banks you have listed, whilst not being my type of music, certainly aren't depressing and are quite heavy, pump you up style bands that suits speedway meetings. I think its widely agreed UK speedway presentation is ancient and awful in general.

If your getting value for money, you wouldn't mind drinking out of a plastic cup for a bit extra. Everyone does it at a festival or concert. Difference is there you 9.5 times out of 10 have full value for money.

[Grachan]

13 hours ago, Mr. Clemens said:

 

A Polish friend of mine said 'don't run away with the idea that speedway is popular throughout the country.

There are areas where it is popular but a lot of areas where it isn't'.

 

I mentioned to a Polish friend of mine that I'd been to speedway the previous evening and she said: "Really? Speedway is really popular in Poland. Where was that? I didn't know they had it here."

[Skodaman]

15 hours ago, Mr. Clemens said:

 

A Polish friend of mine said 'don't run away with the idea that speedway is popular throughout the country.

There are areas where it is popular but a lot of areas where it isn't'.

 

 

 

 

I was in Krakow a couple of years ago. At a flea market in the town, there were two stalls selling badges including many motorcycling ones. When i asked if there were any speedway ones, they didn't know what speedway was.