Lambert v Jack Holder v other top young riders

[Steve Shovlar]

Although Jack Holder rode for Poole I can’t say I ever warmed to him. He never seemed devoted to the cause and certainly was no CH when riding for us. And he certainly let us down when it really mattered, showing little effort at Ipswich last year. Like Kurtz he seemed to vanish when the going got tough.

Robert Lambert has clearly been the better rider over the last 2 seasons in the U.K. And this year Lambert has gone on to win the SEC which has projected him into the 2021 GP series. Fantastic for him and GB. 

So it should be easy to say Lambert has the world at his feet and could be the next Woffy. But watching the Extraleague in Poland, young holder seems to have stepped up a gear. He can gate, Lambert can’t. Well not as consistently. And I type this as Lambert just managed to hold off Zmarzlik for second place in an Extraleague meeting. His gating really needs to step up a gear if he is to be taken as a serious top flight rider. Has he got it in him?  

On the other hand Holder doesn’t seem to have the same gating issue and is often in a good position off the first bend.

So who will have the more successful career? Hoping Lambert will push on further and leave Jack Holder behind. This is the future of the sport. Lambert, Holder, Chuganov, Thomson, Kubera, Drabik, plus Several others.

Will Lambert join Woffy at the top? Will Holder be too good? Time will tell.

Thoughts?

[Chadster]

One of the things I noticed watching the SEC was that Lambert may not often have been first into the first bend, but he regularly was coming out of the second bend. I always thought that was a characteristic of Woffinden at his best.

[Steve Shovlar]

We all, as Brits, want Lambert to follow Woffy to the top. Are there too many young riders who are actually better? Lambert gated in heat 15 but Zmarzlik was soon through followed by Thomsen. Ended up last. Is he the great pretender?

[Terry]

Robert Lambert was brilliant at the start of the season and during the SEC, but he hasn't been as consistent recently. Watching heat 15 tonight and seeing him being barged out of way by Zmarzlik and Thomsen wasn't nice to see.

In contrast Jack Holder seems to get better with each meeting and he's definitely above Lambert at the moment..Maybe riding with the world champion is pulling him along also.

[SteveLyric2]

10 minutes ago, Terry said:

Robert Lambert was brilliant at the start of the season and during the SEC, but he hasn't been as consistent recently. Watching heat 15 tonight and seeing him being barged out of way by Zmarzlik and Thomsen wasn't nice to see.

In contrast Jack Holder seems to get better with each meeting and he's definitely above Lambert at the moment..Maybe riding with the world champion is pulling him along also.

Jack said as much in interview about 'the Zmarzlik effect', but one things for certain Jack won't win the SEC!!!

[Steve Shovlar]

No he won’t but he certainly seems to come on a hell of a lot since his feeble effort at Ipswich last year.  
 

Lambert should have been strong enough to put up a proper fight in heat 15 tonight. I would expect Zmarzlik to have forced himself by by the way he gave up his position to end up at the back was quite weak.

He needs to improve his gating and toughen up otherwise he will be no more than a second string in the Extraleague. I am confident he can and will do better.

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

17 minutes ago, Steve Shovlar said:

No he won’t but he certainly seems to come on a hell of a lot since his feeble effort at Ipswich last year.  
 

Lambert should have been strong enough to put up a proper fight in heat 15 tonight. I would expect Zmarzlik to have forced himself by by the way he gave up his position to end up at the back was quite weak.

He needs to improve his gating and toughen up otherwise he will be no more than a second string in the Extraleague. I am confident he can and will do better.

I wouldnt put too much emphasis on Holders efforts at Foxhall - 8 times out of 10 he has been poor at best and a couple of times a complete embarrassment on his visits over the years 

His talent is undoubted but his temperament to date has been flawed. If he sorts that he could be among the elite

Personally I have little time for him and wouldnt be upset to see him implode and become an also ran

[Sidney the robin]

1 hour ago, Steve Shovlar said:

Although Jack Holder rode for Poole I can’t say I ever warmed to him. He never seemed devoted to the cause and certainly was no CH when riding for us. And he certainly let us down when it really mattered, showing little effort at Ipswich last year. Like Kurtz he seemed to vanish when the going got tough.

Robert Lambert has clearly been the better rider over the last 2 seasons in the U.K. And this year Lambert has gone on to win the SEC which has projected him into the 2021 GP series. Fantastic for him and GB. 

So it should be easy to say Lambert has the world at his feet and could be the next Woffy. But watching the Extraleague in Poland, young holder seems to have stepped up a gear. He can gate, Lambert can’t. Well not as consistently. And I type this as Lambert just managed to hold off Zmarzlik for second place in an Extraleague meeting. His gating really needs to step up a gear if he is to be taken as a serious top flight rider. Has he got it in him?  

On the other hand Holder doesn’t seem to have the same gating issue and is often in a good position off the first bend.

So who will have the more successful career? Hoping Lambert will push on further and leave Jack Holder behind. This is the future of the sport. Lambert, Holder, Chuganov, Thomson, Kubera, Drabik, plus Several others.

Will Lambert join Woffy at the top? Will Holder be too good? Time will tell.

Thoughts?

I would only judge Holder on his career at Poole on a decent home track strip.The track was often inconsistent a disgrace at times terrible he is a rider with a decent amount of talent if he is sticks at it can be a GP rider of the future.

[Bagpuss]

Holder has been excellent this year for Gorzow but it should be remembered he is a couple of years older than Lambert Which is pretty significant for younger riders IMO (ie 25 and under). Robert was sensational up to winning the SEC including his starting but it seems he has gone off the boil a little since then....maybe the SEC was his main focus and winning it has taken its toll on him mentally. Can’t be easy riding in a poor team every week either. 

Rather than picking too many bones out of his performance tonight I’d say scoring ten away from home in Poland is pretty good for a young Brit against much more experienced riders. It’s commonplace for good riders to get blown away in the extraliga here and there so I wouldn’t dwell on it too much if I were him. 

[Steve Shovlar]

Jack Holders scores in the Extealeague this season.

 2*,0,3,2*,2*,3,3,2,1,2*,2*,2*,3,3,3,1,2*,2*,3,1,1*,2*,2*,1,3,2*,2,3,3,2*,2,3,3,3= 70 pkt + 13 bonus points.
13 x 3 pkt
15 x 2 pkt
5 x 1 pkt
1 x 0 pkt

[HenryW]

Totally agree with Bagpuss.

You have to remember that Lambert is 2 years younger than Holder. Where was Holder at Ekstraliga level 2 years ago?

Holder also has had the benefit of some "easy" races for a bit of a confidence boost in the lower Polish league this year. 

Don't get me wrong, I've been impressed with Holder's efforts in the Ekstraliga this year, but I don't think a straight comparison with Lambert is fair right now. 

[HGould]

One big issue not mentioned.

Lambert has carried a poor team. Holder is shielded in a far better team.

Basing comments on Polish League matches far less relevant than SEC in terms of pressure of riding as an individual.

Jack Holder is a hot and cold gater. Robert Lambert is an all round racer.

No doubt in my mind that with fair luck Lambert will be a far better global rider than Holder.

[arnieg]

Both have impressed in the few short weeks of speedway we have seen this year. 

 

Both have advanced their careers, both will probably be pleased with the progress towards their goals they have made.

 

But you can't make a definitive judgement on a handful of meetings in two months.

[old bob at herne bay]

Question mark remains  for me on Holders temperament. Good in a good side when everything is going well.... when the going gets tough, Holder tends to lose the plot.

Lambert however seems to be made of sterner stuff.

 

 

[Daniel Smith]

I think it's difficult to assess between J.Holder & Lambert in the Exstraliga. 

Jack has a consistent position in the team whereas Lambert being No8 gets dumped into all the tougher heats because Rybnik are so so bad as a team.

Next season should be a good comparison as I can't see Lambert & Holder not getting in an Exstraliga team's 7.

For the record, Jack is 2 years older at 24 so should actually be a bit further on than he is in his career. 

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

11 minutes ago, geoff58 said:

NO he is a Aussie unless they have moved it to Europe 

They are in Eurovision now so never say never

[Sidney the robin]

6 hours ago, Daniel Smith said:

I think it's difficult to assess between J.Holder & Lambert in the Exstraliga. 

Jack has a consistent position in the team whereas Lambert being No8 gets dumped into all the tougher heats because Rybnik are so so bad as a team.

Next season should be a good comparison as I can't see Lambert & Holder not getting in an Exstraliga team's 7.

For the record, Jack is 2 years older at 24 so should actually be a bit further on than he is in his career. 

I really like Jack rate him but Lambert now looks ready to kick on and be a fully fledged GP rider not so sure about Jack what do you think Daniel?? .With Lambert as a rider he has real trackcraft makes up for his frailties in gating also now he looks to have a  package mechanical wise not cheap at all to set up takes along time.Looking at Robert alongside Drabik, Kubera, Smektala ( who I rate) he is doing pretty well..

Edited August 15, 2020 by Sidney the robin

[Ben91]

11 hours ago, Daniel Smith said:

I think it's difficult to assess between J.Holder & Lambert in the Exstraliga. 

Jack has a consistent position in the team whereas Lambert being No8 gets dumped into all the tougher heats because Rybnik are so so bad as a team.

Next season should be a good comparison as I can't see Lambert & Holder not getting in an Exstraliga team's 7.

For the record, Jack is 2 years older at 24 so should actually be a bit further on than he is in his career. 

Age has no bearing on when a rider reaches their peak. Holder seems a different rider this year so far but whether he can keep it up remains to be seen.

I think Lambert is the better rider now and has the higher ceiling potentially but he needs to get his starts sorted out to mix it on the GP stage. I half expect us to be on the cusp of a Zmarzlik era however, and for any other rider to get much change out of him could be tricky.  

[LagutaRacingFan]

I think the Jack Holder or Lambert debate is a redundant one.

Bartosz Zmarzlik and Dominic Kubera will dominate the world.

Edited August 15, 2020 by KeirStarmerFan

[Najjer]

On 8/14/2020 at 7:22 PM, Steve Shovlar said:

No he won’t but he certainly seems to come on a hell of a lot since his feeble effort at Ipswich last year.  
 

I think it’s a valid point that Jack didn’t want to ride for Poole last year. He wanted to stay at Somerset but was forced to leave by Somerset dropping down a league. He had been quite outspoken about his time there before and how he had been a different rider at Somerset because of how he was treated and felt more at home.

Jack was sensational for Somerset that year and is absolutely tearing it up in the Polish leagues this year. Long may that continue for both him and Lambert.