cityrebel Posted August 14, 2020 Report Share Posted August 14, 2020 4 hours ago, mikebv said: I think that is the sports dilemma (over here).. The IOW seem to promote EVERY meeting as if it was a one off event, which with some of their fans on holiday it very well could be their only chance to impress them.. And for their regulars 'something different' regularly will keep it fresh.. Team success (as in winning the league) almost appears secondary to the success of providing their customer base a 'great night out' and given the lack of kudos and financial reward for winning any UK competition, I would suggest it's a very good operating model.. UK Team Speedway is basically a busted flush if you measure success by the numbers who attend, with many who have fallen away over the years basically giving up on the concept, hence no longer bother attending.. (But often still remain as very interested followers of the sport in their several thousands).. Therefore it's dilemma is can it run itself successfully as a 'Team Sport' concept (and bring back some of the lapsed thousands), or does it need to do 'something different'? The old adages though of "always doing what you've always done will only deliver what you've always had" and the definition of insanity being "doing the same thing over and over again and each time expecting a different result" is something that those who run the sport should have written large on their meeting room walls.. Didn't all the great promoters of the past treat every meeting like a one off event. If you can't big up the product you are trying to sell, what chance do you have. As an IOW regular, i would say that Barry's communication skills go down well with the punters. Keeping the fans involved is a big plus, especially when I'm making a mad dash for the 21.47 ferry. I always remember Johnnie Hoksins greeting every fan as he passed through the turnstiles at Canterbury. That's what you call customer care! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HackneyHawk Posted August 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2020 Why isn't the Speedway 'World Cup' raced in pairs like league Speedway? Riders are individuals who then have their scores added together thus removing the spectacle of seeing team mates line up on the start and racing for and with each other on the track...... I'll admit it.........I'm old..........I love a bit of team riding it's one of Speedway's biggest assets to me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted August 17, 2020 Report Share Posted August 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, HackneyHawk said: Why isn't the Speedway 'World Cup' raced in pairs like league Speedway? Riders are individuals who then have their scores added together thus removing the spectacle of seeing team mates line up on the start and racing for and with each other on the track...... I'll admit it.........I'm old..........I love a bit of team riding it's one of Speedway's biggest assets to me! It is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben91 Posted August 17, 2020 Report Share Posted August 17, 2020 41 minutes ago, HackneyHawk said: Why isn't the Speedway 'World Cup' raced in pairs like league Speedway? Riders are individuals who then have their scores added together thus removing the spectacle of seeing team mates line up on the start and racing for and with each other on the track...... I'll admit it.........I'm old..........I love a bit of team riding it's one of Speedway's biggest assets to me! I’d personally like to see an actual World Cup. Run once every four years, with perhaps the Speedway of Nations style pairs event run every four years also and staggered so that there is a big international tournament every two years. By a proper World Cup I mean the entire tournament staged in one country with groups and team meetings. It would take an innovative format but I’m sure something could be done if some thought was put into it. Although I appreciate the Poles would potentially clean up in any such event. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted August 17, 2020 Report Share Posted August 17, 2020 3 hours ago, Ben91 said: I’d personally like to see an actual World Cup. Run once every four years, with perhaps the Speedway of Nations style pairs event run every four years also and staggered so that there is a big international tournament every two years. By a proper World Cup I mean the entire tournament staged in one country with groups and team meetings. It would take an innovative format but I’m sure something could be done if some thought was put into it. Although I appreciate the Poles would potentially clean up in any such event. The 1973 Daily Mirror World Tournament caught the imagination as well as the media's attention...it was a great advert for the sport back then during speedway's last "Golden Era". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk127 Posted August 17, 2020 Report Share Posted August 17, 2020 1 hour ago, steve roberts said: The 1973 Daily Mirror World Tournament caught the imagination as well as the media's attention...it was a great advert for the sport back then during speedway's last "Golden Era". If I recall correctly, this was team speedway with seven man teams riding at a range of tracks and I seem to recall seeing Russia riding at Hackney but old age let’s me down on who the opposition was. I do remember it got great coverage in the media and was held over one or two weeks. It would good to see something similar rather than the 4TT event that is today’s offering. Seven man teams riding as nations over three or four weeks with the right sponsor could be the making of a revival. What I do not understand is those who favour the recent World Cup format yet would never go to a a U.K. track hosting 4TT meeting made up of local teams. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted August 17, 2020 Report Share Posted August 17, 2020 40 minutes ago, Hawk127 said: If I recall correctly, this was team speedway with seven man teams riding at a range of tracks and I seem to recall seeing Russia riding at Hackney but old age let’s me down on who the opposition was. I do remember it got great coverage in the media and was held over one or two weeks. It would good to see something similar rather than the 4TT event that is today’s offering. Seven man teams riding as nations over three or four weeks with the right sponsor could be the making of a revival. What I do not understand is those who favour the recent World Cup format yet would never go to a a U.K. track hosting 4TT meeting made up of local teams. Who could ever forget the run-off between Peter Collins (England) and Anders Michanek (Sweden) after the final finished in a draw at Wembley and Anders was excluded after Peter slid off? An incident that divided opinion then and still does for those who were around to remember it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrub Posted August 17, 2020 Report Share Posted August 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Hawk127 said: If I recall correctly, this was team speedway with seven man teams riding at a range of tracks and I seem to recall seeing Russia riding at Hackney but old age let’s me down on who the opposition was. I do remember it got great coverage in the media and was held over one or two weeks. It would good to see something similar rather than the 4TT event that is today’s offering. Seven man teams riding as nations over three or four weeks with the right sponsor could be the making of a revival. What I do not understand is those who favour the recent World Cup format yet would never go to a a U.K. track hosting 4TT meeting made up of local teams. You're right it was seven man teams, but your old age is letting you down just a little! We had the Russians v England at Ipswich, you had England v Poland at Hackney (12 point max for the Tiger!) Think that match was shown on World of Sport. (Unless my old age is letting me down!) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluPanther Posted August 17, 2020 Report Share Posted August 17, 2020 13 minutes ago, Shrub said: You're right it was seven man teams, but your old age is letting you down just a little! We had the Russians v England at Ipswich, you had England v Poland at Hackney (12 point max for the Tiger!) Think that match was shown on World of Sport. (Unless my old age is letting me down!) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrub Posted August 17, 2020 Report Share Posted August 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, Blupanther said: Can't remember the score but I know this one wasn't a massacre like the England v Russia match. You can definitely put a row of 3's next to Tiger's name though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWC Posted August 17, 2020 Report Share Posted August 17, 2020 It was a very wet meeting I went to see the Polish wonder boy Zenon Plech. Didn't disappoint as he was also unbeaten except for a fall when he meet Louis. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrub Posted August 17, 2020 Report Share Posted August 17, 2020 8 minutes ago, GWC said: It was a very wet meeting I went to see the Polish wonder boy Zenon Plech. Didn't disappoint as he was also unbeaten except for a fall when he meet Louis. I went with my Dad to this, I was about 10. I remember going straight from school to Hackney, my first of what turned out to be many, many visits there, it was the night after the England v Russia match at Ipswich, and Tiger's 12 point max but little else! Though the rain rings a bell now that you mentioned it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinmauger Posted August 18, 2020 Report Share Posted August 18, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, steve roberts said: The 1973 Daily Mirror World Tournament caught the imagination as well as the media's attention...it was a great advert for the sport back then during speedway's last "Golden Era". Fun fact: it was at about this time when I became aware of speedway, though thanks to the open-piped JAPs & JAWAs of the time it could be clearly heard all over town, for quite some time after being allowed to see some of this particular competition on TV at 11PMish though to be honest I was too young to properly follow it properly (but still thought it was brilliant) I assumed that all speedway competitions were 'tournaments' .... Edited August 18, 2020 by martinmauger alleged grammar improvements 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted August 18, 2020 Report Share Posted August 18, 2020 6 hours ago, steve roberts said: Who could ever forget the run-off between Peter Collins (England) and Anders Michanek (Sweden) after the final finished in a draw at Wembley and Anders was excluded after Peter slid off? An incident that divided opinion then and still does for those who were around to remember it. And you had an amazing last heat decider at Sheffield with PC, Eric Boocock, Michanek and Tommy Jansson.... Shown later the same evening on ITV.. A race that never gets boring to watch given so much is going on.. A true 'Festival of Speedway" with a big name sponsor and almost blanket TV coverage on one of only three channels you could watch at the time.. A very different world than the one that exists today for Speedway in the UK.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted August 18, 2020 Report Share Posted August 18, 2020 A Norway/Denmark combined team so that Ole Olsen could take part when Norway was by far the more dominate team...how times have changed! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityrebel Posted August 18, 2020 Report Share Posted August 18, 2020 9 hours ago, Shrub said: I went with my Dad to this, I was about 10. I remember going straight from school to Hackney, my first of what turned out to be many, many visits there, it was the night after the England v Russia match at Ipswich, and Tiger's 12 point max but little else! Though the rain rings a bell now that you mentioned it! So did i, we sat in the Hackney car park thinking it would be off. I also went to Australia v New Zealand at Wimbledon, New Zealand v Russia at Reading and the Wembley final. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted August 18, 2020 Report Share Posted August 18, 2020 Personally I'd like to see a World Cup run every year but maybe mix the format up a bit, 1 year WTC (4 riders 1 reserve), 1 year SoN (2 riders 1 reserve) and 1 year Full 18 heat 8 man test matches. I think they had the SWC about right in the early days when it was all held in 1 country, giving the media a chance to get behind it. Obviously the Poles don't need the media attention. I think mixing the formats up may also mix the winners up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvm Posted August 18, 2020 Report Share Posted August 18, 2020 (edited) Most international test matches were 18 heat matches, 8 rider sides, 6 who rode & 2 reserves. The 1-6 rode 6 times unless replaced by a reserve. The copy of the race card confirms this. I can remember the first meeting I ever went to, Young England v Young Sweden at Cleveland Park in 1971, One of the Swedes just missed out on a 18 pt max, Louis or Knapkin who beat him in one ride. And years later I saw somebody else have a 18pt max at Cleveland Park in an international test match, might have been Michael Lee or Kenny Carter (or both). Edit, Just discovered the International tournament was run under the conventional 13 heat format, as opposed to a Test match over 18 hts, something I didn't know, I only ever saw International test matches at Cleveland Park. Edited August 18, 2020 by pvm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben91 Posted August 18, 2020 Report Share Posted August 18, 2020 2 hours ago, iainb said: Personally I'd like to see a World Cup run every year but maybe mix the format up a bit, 1 year WTC (4 riders 1 reserve), 1 year SoN (2 riders 1 reserve) and 1 year Full 18 heat 8 man test matches. I think they had the SWC about right in the early days when it was all held in 1 country, giving the media a chance to get behind it. Obviously the Poles don't need the media attention. I think mixing the formats up may also mix the winners up. International competition every year, absolutely. But I’d keep the World Cup name for the team event solely. You could also stage the Under-21 World Cup on an odd year and make a bigger deal of that event. This is a big digression from the thread of course though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted August 18, 2020 Report Share Posted August 18, 2020 1 minute ago, Ben91 said: International competition every year, absolutely. But I’d keep the World Cup name for the team event solely. You could also stage the Under-21 World Cup on an odd year and make a bigger deal of that event. This is a big digression from the thread of course though! Some already think that because the name "Speedway of Nations" doesn't include the words world and cup that it lacks gravitas and I can see that point of view for somebody outside of Speedway. Whatever it's called I think it'll need to be sanctioned by the FIM for riders to be required to ride and not forced to stay in Poland and concentrate on their league... I think we're allowed small digressions now and again aren't we 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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