Time to have an enquiry into the death of Speedway

[cityrebel]

14 minutes ago, Fromafar said:

It’s been obvious for the decade at least that rider demands are above the level that most clubs Clubs  can afford given crowd levels.This pandemic will highlight even more.IMO.That hope that crowds come flocking back because they are missing their speedway fix is optimistic to say the least .IMO.

Crowds will never flock back. People will have bigger priorities than a night at the speedway. This pandemic will affect all spectator sports.

[IainB]

14 hours ago, Fromafar said:

It’s been obvious for the decade at least that rider demands are above the level that most clubs Clubs  can afford given crowd levels.This pandemic will highlight even more.IMO.That hope that crowds come flocking back because they are missing their speedway fix is optimistic to say the least .IMO.

Maybe instead of linking riders pay to the points they score it's time link riders pay to the number of punters that turn up to watch them, that way they'd be more involved in trying to get bums on seats

[MattK]

18 hours ago, jenga said:

i assume the £10 offer was done during the aces season. if so it was doomed from the start and riders pay and other things had already been agreed and so the only way. it was going to work was if it pay structure for the riders was put in place before the season kicked off .no point in doing it during the season . 

so to me it looks like riders demands are killing the sport .

if they dont like it , let. them retire and find another job ..   PART TIME RIDERS ALL DAY LONG FOR ME ... 

It isn't rider's demands which are killing the sport, it is clubs bowing to rider's demands. If clubs set a pay scale which was sustainable to their income then riders would have a simple choice. Accept that is on offer or find gainful employment elsewhere. They problem is that clubs, in an arms race to secure the best riders, offer money their businesses cannot afford.

However, this doesn't get away from the fundamental point that demand exceeds supply, hence why riders can make such demands in the first place.

[topsoil]

Didn't Buxton try this approach, sticking to the NL pay scales, and they really struggled to attract riders, probably because there were always other teams willing to pay over the agreed rates. 

You can always set out with the best of intentions, but human nature dictates that somebody, somewhere, will break the 'rules' to try to gain the advantage. It needs unilateral agreement between promoters (good luck) or it will never succeed.

Good idea and the right way to go, but I can't see it ever working.

[ch958]

bi interesting to see how the pay cap in leagues one and two goes. My guess is it'll be broken as often as its not. The likes of big clubs like Sunderland will stop at nothing to get promotion. Would be the same in speedway

[secsy1]

The only way forward is to be constructive with your criticism.

Some excellent posts on this thread, trying to show a way forward.

Most promoters will listen, but the arrogance of spectators about past halcyon days of speedway are not interesting.

We now live in a completely different era and have to address present issues, not resurrect old ones.

Newcastle Speedway this season, would have been a pleasure to visit. All the hard work behind the scenes would have reaped huge benefits.

For once look at the positives as they are few, but a way forward. 

[Fromafar]

5 hours ago, topsoil said:

Didn't Buxton try this approach, sticking to the NL pay scales, and they really struggled to attract riders, probably because there were always other teams willing to pay over the agreed rates. 

You can always set out with the best of intentions, but human nature dictates that somebody, somewhere, will break the 'rules' to try to gain the advantage. It needs unilateral agreement between promoters (good luck) or it will never succeed.

Good idea and the right way to go, but I can't see it ever working.

You hit the nail on the head there,Promoters always want to get one over their rivals .

They make the excuse that the extra cash on offerfrom comes from Sponsorship Money,difficult to prove otherwise though.

Davie Fairbairn at Berwick in the 80’s was one who flouted the fixed pay scales when they were introduced.Think it was the 84 team that stuck out a mile as expensive .

[Spl77]

If you're going to have capped pay rated the only way to inforce it is to pay the riders centrally and the clubs pay in the wage pot rather than each club paying the riders separately. 

[Tsunami]

10 minutes ago, Spl77 said:

If you're going to have capped pay rated the only way to inforce it is to pay the riders centrally and the clubs pay in the wage pot rather than each club paying the riders separately. 

Why. Surely promotions would just give a rider another pay check.

[Fromafar]

12 minutes ago, Spl77 said:

If you're going to have capped pay rated the only way to inforce it is to pay the riders centrally and the clubs pay in the wage pot rather than each club paying the riders separately. 

But the Promotions will still give the riders “backhanders“ that will not appear “on the books” .Lots of loopholes IMO.

[Hawk127]

Interesting comment from Jason Crump during an interview about a possible return to Ipswich in 2021. He will not sign until he knows what the league structure will be and he fears a few clubs will not survive to run next year and I guess with CL in the know, I suspect they already have an idea as to who will not make it to the tapes. Maybe with fewer clubs and more riders than places available, every party involved in the sport will have their hand forced into doing something markedly different. We will have to wait and see but one thing is for sure it will never be as it was in 2019. A new era and enforced changes are probably on the cards which is no bad thing but to keep more tracks running, those that cannot afford league speedway ought to be allowed to go back to the old open licence which would allow them to run individual meets just as Rye House used to before the rockets moved in in the early 70’s. Time will tell.

[mikebv]

22 hours ago, Fromafar said:

It’s been obvious for the decade at least that rider demands are above the level that most clubs Clubs  can afford given crowd levels.This pandemic will highlight even more.IMO.That hope that crowds come flocking back because they are missing their speedway fix is optimistic to say the least .IMO.

The worrying issue is that there wasn't massive crowds anywhere to 'flock back'....

Many on here are lapsed fans who got out of the habit of going, and found they didnt miss it, so you can only hope the extended break doesn't remove the enthusiasm of the basically die hards that attend each week..

As that would be disastrous...

Putting the most positive spin on it, maybe the break will get those less frequent visitors to attend more regularly, and "you don't know what you've lost till it's gone" may inspire plenty of lapsed fans who still have an affinity to the sport, and follow it closely but don't attend domestic speedway, to attend again..

[Fromafar]

1 hour ago, mikebv said:

The worrying issue is that there wasn't massive crowds anywhere to 'flock back'....

Many on here are lapsed fans who got out of the habit of going, and found they didnt miss it, so you can only hope the extended break doesn't remove the enthusiasm of the basically die hards that attend each week..

As that would be disastrous...

Putting the most positive spin on it, maybe the break will get those less frequent visitors to attend more regularly, and "you don't know what you've lost till it's gone" may inspire plenty of lapsed fans who still have an affinity to the sport, and follow it closely but don't attend domestic speedway, to attend again..

It is a worrying time regarding crowd levels, and reading Buster Chapman in this weeks SS there certainly was not any great enthusiasm to ride League matches in front of reduce crowds ,he did say he was” going with the flow” if it was to happen,Poor crowds next season he would certainly” shut up shop “IMO.

[Ben91]

Out of interest, when do people think the decline in British Speedway started? My personal opinion is that for as long as I’ve been a fan (20 years), the sport has been on a downward trajectory. Would it be fair to suggest things started to go south after the last world final at Wembley in 1981? 

[iris123]

I’d say 1989

We had a fairly decent decade in the 80s imo, but the fall of the iron curtain marked the end of the good times. Ok my team Wimbledon went on a couple of years and wasn’t so effected from the rise of Polish speedway. 

[chunky]

27 minutes ago, iris123 said:

I’d say 1989

We had a fairly decent decade in the 80s imo, but the fall of the iron curtain marked the end of the good times. Ok my team Wimbledon went on a couple of years and wasn’t so effected from the rise of Polish speedway. 

I'd certainly agree with that era. Don't forget that was also when the British League ended (1990). There were several factors over a two or three year period that really didn't help.

[marko]

I started watching in 88 and I would say it wasn’t exactly thriving then so the fall probably started before then, Arena did have some cracking seasons in the early 90s but it wasn’t the same elsewhere where clubs didn’t have very good teams.

we have seen tracks close but also new tracks open or resurrected after years away (Leicester, Redcar, Scunthorpe etc) so it’s never been all doom or all great, just going through the motions as best as it can.

[steve roberts]

15 hours ago, Ben91 said:

Out of interest, when do people think the decline in British Speedway started? My personal opinion is that for as long as I’ve been a fan (20 years), the sport has been on a downward trajectory. Would it be fair to suggest things started to go south after the last world final at Wembley in 1981? 

Personally I would say the early/middle nineties. We had good crowds at Cowley during the eighties but having a successfull team and  a World Champion helped towards that. When Hans Nielsen left due to, we are told, the pay structure that was imposed crowds dipped and never really re-covered.

Edited August 9, 2020 by steve roberts

[ch958]

we're in survival mode, or we should be. Control the costs now before it's too late. 

[mikebv]

14 hours ago, Ben91 said:

Out of interest, when do people think the decline in British Speedway started? My personal opinion is that for as long as I’ve been a fan (20 years), the sport has been on a downward trajectory. Would it be fair to suggest things started to go south after the last world final at Wembley in 1981? 

For me, it started to decline when 'England' stopped ruling the Speedway roost at international level..

The TV companies and tabloid press lapped up (no pun intended), the way England regularly won Best Pairs and World Team cups, and obviously in Peter Collins had a dare devil young hero that transcended the Speedway world and was amongst the most well known sportsmen in the country. Not only winning a World Title, but doing it in a way that showed just how exciting and breathtaking the sport can be..

Then, towards the late 70's and early 80's the UK started training up many Danes and Americans in particular to take over their previous World Champion mantle..

All of a sudden, there wasnt quite the same coverage given to USA and Denmark victories by the mainstream media, (and why should there be?)

However, instead of focusing on getting back on top of the pile by having a detailed, fit for purpose training plan to provide young English riders with the opportunity to  progress, the authorities instead then opened up the 2nd Division to foreign riders which allowed them to train up even more nations' riders, who took up team places that young British riders used to have..

And finally as we hit the 90's winning at club level became all that mattered with Promoters trying desperately to get one over their fellow promoters by ensuring that their team was best.

Completely ignoring the blatant fact that league title wins for Poole, Wolves, Belle Vue, Coventry etc etc etc had not one jot of positive impact to the sport nationally amongst generic sports fans and national media..

And had lessening yearly impact to even die hard fans when they considered the often 'Mickey Mouse' operating model that facilitated the winners' victory..

Hence winning at club level became all encompassing so clubs filled their teams with journeymen foreign riders, who would then throughout the season get replaced by even more journeymen foreign riders when averages dictated.

And would also every now and again unearth a foreign 'wunderkind' on a ridiculously low entrance average which would provide that team with a 'fourth heat leader' at reserve, which would decide so many matches in their favour..

However, the team with the next '4 point superstar' may have cared about their victorious season , but hardly anyone else did..

In short, it's been a crap operating model for nigh on 40 years and if your intention was to promote your sport positively to millions of the nation's sports fans then it was as wide of the mark as it possibly could have been..

However, looking at the work being done around the young talent that's out there now, maybe, just maybe, the penny has finally dropped and a successful 'Great Britain' team will soon be regularly back on the top step of international meetings, with all the extended coverage from the wider sports media it will bring.

In Woffy and Robert Lambert the country truly already have two who can compete at the very top, which can only help enormously to start generating wider interest in the sport if they get publicised well..

However. Four or five other World Class riders in the top 20 would certainly add to the publicity the sport gets, and can only have a positive knock on impact to the domestic leagues and their teams..

Edited August 9, 2020 by mikebv