Time to have an enquiry into the death of Speedway

[mikebv]

6 hours ago, jenga said:

maybe , just maybe all promoters/riders will for once see light at the end of the tunnel and make it a part time sport again . entrance fee will be a lot less and give all fans something to see again . 

who give a chuff if you have to stand all the time to watch it . great in summer siting on a grassy bank having a few tinnies 

 wid yer mates . its a £10 pund sport all day long. time to wake up an smell the coffee .

2021 will not take place anyhow because of this civid thing . so roll on 22 

If it was a £10 sport then more would go, and far more regularly, without any doubt..

Which can only increase atmosphere and enjoyment of the 'overall experience'. ..

When the Aces tried it a few years ago at the old place, the crowds were noticeably larger, however the Promoters deemed it a failure as they took less money than the usual crowd at the usual admission..

So it stopped, and crowds dropped back when full admission was resumed...

I presume it stopped because that was far easier than doing something about why the costs were so high that needed such a high admission charge in the first place....

The more difficult thing to do of course would be reducing these costs down to make something like £10 price point workable...

Therefore it wont ever get done...

[IainB]

19 hours ago, HackneyHawk said:

Controversially, I think that third tier Speedway may harm the sport's popularity amongst outsiders and maybe should only exist as second halves of senior Speedway.  The 'quality of the racing and presentation is just not as good and therefore the uninitiated go along and are disillusioned, not knowing that they have watched an inferior product.

All of you fans of third tier tracks please try and see the sport's dire predicament before taking me to task on my opinion.......

You could say the same about CL & PL compared to the SGP series... Imagine watching it on BT Sport, thinking I like the look of that and then turning up at any of the tracks in Britain (BV exempt)

[Ben91]

On 8/5/2020 at 6:59 PM, London Racer said:

Personally I felt it was a massive shame when Buster Chapmans son dropped out of the sport. Not everyone’s cup of tea but he had some great ideas when he was involved, it’s a shame some of the ‘experienced’ promotors never let him see them through. 

Some of Jonathan Chapman’s ideas were a swing and a miss, some were good, but he wanted to innovate and drive the sport forward. His advantage was that he had a way in through his father too in what is a notoriously hard sport to get into and make any impact. I feel that had he still been involved in the sport and allowed to spread his wings so to speak we could be looking at a much better product today. He could have been our answer to Eddie Hearn in some ways.  

19 hours ago, HackneyHawk said:

Well I'd like to do it! But seriously, it has to be someone from outside Speedway.  Maybe a promoter of other sports that are more popular now than they once were???

Someone made the excellent point of Promoters working together for the good of the sport and not engaging in petty rivalry.

Controversially, I think that third tier Speedway may harm the sport's popularity amongst outsiders and maybe should only exist as second halves of senior Speedway.  The 'quality of the racing and presentation is just not as good and therefore the uninitiated go along and are disillusioned, not knowing that they have watched an inferior product.

All of you fans of third tier tracks please try and see the sport's dire predicament before taking me to task on my opinion.......

I don’t think the issue is petty rivalries, more that each club is an individual business and thus wants to do what is best for their business to keep running. Which is understandable but it results in a rob Peter to pay Paul system where the clubs whose needs/wants are in the majority get their way when it comes to voting time. The next year that can swing back to the other side of the fence and there’s massive upheaval again. 

18 hours ago, ch958 said:

old school worked to be fair

“Worked,” being the key word. It won’t work now. 

[mikebv]

19 hours ago, ch958 said:

old school worked to be fair

Anyone who has been around the sport for a major length of time in a Promotion capacity over the past 20 to 30 years or so, shouldn't be anywhere near heading up any plan for the future..

As they have basically joined in the fiddling whilst Rome burned around them..

The sport needs those who have come in recently to head up any movement forwards. 

They dont have the baggage of past failings and, hopefully, haven't been sucked into yet the "Ahh! But you see, that wont work, because this is Speedway" bubble..

 

[ch958]

By 'worked' I mean that bikes were affordable, tracks had dirt, nobody was paid more than could be afforded, guests were fewer, riders generally only had 1 team other than 2nd div riders occasionally doubling up to Div 1 temporarily. I have no objections to things moving forward but not when it clearly adds nothing.

[HGould]

53 minutes ago, mikebv said:

Anyone who has been around the sport for a major length of time in a Promotion capacity over the past 20 to 30 years or so, shouldn't be anywhere near heading up any plan for the future..

As they have basically joined in the fiddling whilst Rome burned around them..

The sport needs those who have come in recently to head up any movement forwards. 

They dont have the baggage of past failings and, hopefully, haven't been sucked into yet the "Ahh! But you see, that wont work, because this is Speedway" bubble..

 

There are some new bright thinkers out there who have appeared in the past 3-5 years.

Some have Business backgrounds.

The structure and system though dictates that the "top table" is a combination of "dead mans shoes and cronyism".

Until that is blown away the bright thinkers will only impact locally.

Adrian Smith, perhaps the brightest of them all has hit the nail on the head. The Sport needs independent governance.

Look at what's being achieved by Team GB and GB Academy since it was allowed to be run independently.

[cityrebel]

The time for an enquiry will be next March, when the season is delayed again. A repeat of this year will probably finish the sport off.

[Ben91]

1 hour ago, HGould said:

There are some new bright thinkers out there who have appeared in the past 3-5 years.

Some have Business backgrounds.

The structure and system though dictates that the "top table" is a combination of "dead mans shoes and cronyism".

Until that is blown away the bright thinkers will only impact locally.

Adrian Smith, perhaps the brightest of them all has hit the nail on the head. The Sport needs independent governance.

Look at what's being achieved by Team GB and GB Academy since it was allowed to be run independently.

It was plain long before Adrian Smith came along that the sport needs an independent governing body to be honest. 

[Midland Red]

Send for Nelson Mills-Baldwin and co.

[jenga]

8 hours ago, mikebv said:

If it was a £10 sport then more would go, and far more regularly, without any doubt..

Which can only increase atmosphere and enjoyment of the 'overall experience'. ..

When the Aces tried it a few years ago at the old place, the crowds were noticeably larger, however the Promoters deemed it a failure as they took less money than the usual crowd at the usual admission..

So it stopped, and crowds dropped back when full admission was resumed...

I presume it stopped because that was far easier than doing something about why the costs were so high that needed such a high admission charge in the first place....

The more difficult thing to do of course would be reducing these costs down to make something like £10 price point workable...

Therefore it wont ever get done...

i assume the £10 offer was done during the aces season. if so it was doomed from the start and riders pay and other things had already been agreed and so the only way. it was going to work was if it pay structure for the riders was put in place before the season kicked off .no point in doing it during the season . 

so to me it looks like riders demands are killing the sport .

if they dont like it , let. them retire and find another job ..   PART TIME RIDERS ALL DAY LONG FOR ME ... 

[stevehone]

18 minutes ago, jenga said:

i assume the £10 offer was done during the aces season. if so it was doomed from the start and riders pay and other things had already been agreed and so the only way. it was going to work was if it pay structure for the riders was put in place before the season kicked off .no point in doing it during the season . 

so to me it looks like riders demands are killing the sport .

if they dont like it , let. them retire and find another job ..   PART TIME RIDERS ALL DAY LONG FOR ME ... 

the only way i can see the sport in this country surviving.

it's time to mix new ideas with things that worked in the past, look at successes and failures over the years and cherrypick what worked.

it's also blatantly obvious that the crowd levels here and the lack of mainstream sponsors can't support the rider demands, the time is now right to start from the bottom and work upwards from there.

[cityrebel]

19 minutes ago, stevehone said:

the only way i can see the sport in this country surviving.

it's time to mix new ideas with things that worked in the past, look at successes and failures over the years and cherrypick what worked.

it's also blatantly obvious that the crowd levels here and the lack of mainstream sponsors can't support the rider demands, the time is now right to start from the bottom and work upwards from there.

People everywhere are having to take pay cuts. Why should speedway riders be any different.

[iris123]

23 minutes ago, stevehone said:

the only way i can see the sport in this country surviving.

it's time to mix new ideas with things that worked in the past, look at successes and failures over the years and cherrypick what worked.

it's also blatantly obvious that the crowd levels here and the lack of mainstream sponsors can't support the rider demands, the time is now right to start from the bottom and work upwards from there.

I do think and I have said it before many times is they have to be more flexible and let one or two promoters maybe hold just a handful of meetings a year if that is what will help more tracks to survive. Not tie everyone into a league

[stevehone]

3 minutes ago, iris123 said:

I do think and I have said it before many times is they have to be more flexible and let one or two promoters maybe hold just a handful of meetings a year if that is what will help more tracks to survive. Not tie everyone into a league

not a bad idea, but will the SCB allow a track to maybe run some bumper meetings and cream off more than others?

[iris123]

4 minutes ago, stevehone said:

not a bad idea, but will the SCB allow a track to maybe run some bumper meetings and cream off more than others?

That is the problem. But I was thinking more like in the old days of Mildenhall with a few training matches and one or two individual meetings rather than top stuff. But I do think the trouble is everyone has to be in a league, which is too rigid

[mikebv]

10 minutes ago, iris123 said:

That is the problem. But I was thinking more like in the old days of Mildenhall with a few training matches and one or two individual meetings rather than top stuff. But I do think the trouble is everyone has to be in a league, which is too rigid

Leagues that have very little credibility, value and kudos due to the very way that they are ran...

Akin to Turkeys voting for Xmas, as there can only be one outcome..

You only have to look at Poland..

If they ran a 20 meeting home season, with riders from all teams representing all and sundry on an ad hoc basis just to make sure every team has enough riders in their colours to ensure the 20 meeting home season took place, then crowds would be decimated from the current levels..

Less is certainly more over there and (covid exceptions), each team uses their own riders with a clear differential between levels.

Basically you ride in the league your capability level allows and move up and down organically...

Not "which league should I choose to be in this year, and when I decide who do I try and fill my seven places with"

If you cant make up a "good enough" team in the UK then you should be allowed to still play a large part in the sport if you so wished by running any comps you feel will make money, and represent the sport professionally.. 

The more non brand damaging Speedway meetings the better, of all standard and type..

 

 

 

[stevehone]

46 minutes ago, stevehone said:

not a bad idea, but will the SCB allow a track to maybe run some bumper meetings and cream off more than others?

actually, i think i need to adjust this a bit .. 

will the OTHER PROMOTERS allow a track to maybe run some bumper meetings and cream off more than others?

[iris123]

2 minutes ago, stevehone said:

actually, i think i need to adjust this a bit .. 

will the OTHER PROMOTERS allow a track to maybe run some bumper meetings and cream off more than others?

You could adjust it again and ask will they allow another promoter to lose less than they are ?

[marko]

What ever the model the Isle of Wight use, then copy that! They run tons of meetings outside league ones and despite on the face of it getting very few fans, still seem to be financially solvent.

Amateur doesn’t mean it has to be a complete mess, non league football is amateur but still run in a professional way, speedway should be classed as an amateur sport apart from the Grand Prix system.

Been saying it for years, costs are out of hand, need standard bikes, cheap to maintain, get it home, give it a clean, change the oil every few meetings, job done.

spectator pricing should be no more than an average National League North/South Football club, £10-13 and kids for free.

[Fromafar]

2 hours ago, cityrebel said:

People everywhere are having to take pay cuts. Why should speedway riders be any different.

It’s been obvious for the decade at least that rider demands are above the level that most clubs Clubs  can afford given crowd levels.This pandemic will highlight even more.IMO.That hope that crowds come flocking back because they are missing their speedway fix is optimistic to say the least .IMO.