Atomic

[Fromafar]

16 minutes ago, BL65 said:

George walked out of the meeting against Coventry on 7^th August 1965 after one ride, complaining about the state of the track.  Ian Hoskins was not best pleased.  Hunter threatened he would walk out again if improvements were not made. Hoskins wrote a strongly-worded letter to him and George turned up to ride the following week, but the track had been extensively worked on and bladed during the week by former Monarch Dick Campbell.  Ironically, the meeting against Swindon was rained off.  Having escaped further action by the Control Board for his walk-out Hunter was then suspended for 21 days for failing to appear at Coventry and Exeter on 11^th and 13^th September.  Edinburgh were able to use a guest to replace George for the home meeting with Belle Vue and so booked Ivan Mauger, although he only scored 9.  If the suspension had started with effect from 14^th September then Hunter would have been banned until 4^th October, but he appealed and was allowed to defend his Scottish Open title on 2^nd October, finishing runner-up to Arne Pander, with Mauger third.

He was my first hero in speedway, he was certainly the fans favourite in his rise to the top with the Monarchs.He certainly stalled after ‘65.and  Persson and Eide became the top dogs.Had a good career.Definitely had the skills to reach the top but it just never happened.Drove his Uncles cattle lorry In between meetings while still persueing  his Monarchs career.

[BL65]

1 hour ago, norbold said:

i'd be interested in hearing Provincial League aficionados from that period's views on Redmond and Brown.

Trevor Redmond was top PL man in 1960, but his average with Wembley in Division 1 in 1956 was only just over 6.00 and in 1959 with Swindon it was below 4.00.  Reg Reeves, the next best rider, had not ridden league speedway since 1955, when he was an 8-point man with Division2 Ipswich.  Third best rider, Harry Bastable, averaged over 10.00, but had struggled with scores averaging around 4.00 in the previous two years at Leicester.

The other top PL riders in 1960 were Brian Craven, Alan Smith, Ross Gilbertson, Johnny Hole, Tony Lewis, Tony Robinson and Ivor Brown.  Gilbertson also rode a few matches that year for Southampton and averaged under 6.00.  The most recent scoring levels of the others in the top league were generally of reserve or second-string standard.  Brown had made sporadic appearances for Leicester between 1953 and 1958 with little success.  The regular rides at Yarmouth in 1959 and 1960 facilitated his rapid progress to becoming a dominant force at Cradley Heath from 1961 onwards.  In 1961 he had a league average of 10.14, compared to Bastable’s 8.88. 

In comparison with other riders of that era it is perhaps unlikely that Redmond or Brown, even with a regular team slot, would have risen to heat leader standard in the National League in 1960/61.  The gap in standards certainly narrowed considerably over the next few years, which enabled the amalgamation of National and Provincial to form the British League in 1965 to be a success.

[Fromafar]

2 hours ago, norbold said:

As a New Cross supporter, I didn't see many Provincial League riders in its early days, 1960/61, but I did see some in Individual meetings and in second halves. Purely from memory, without resorting to record books, I seem to remember that I thought Trevor Redmond and Ivor Brown were head and shoulders above the rest of the riders I saw and were the only two I felt at the time could hold their own in the National League. Of course that is purely a subjective view of a young speedway novice (me) and without seeing all of the top riders.
 

i'd be interested in hearing Provincial League aficionados from that period's views on Redmond and Brown.

I think the the situation was when the leagues  amalgamated  in 1965, the riders like Redmond and Brown and a few others who had been top men In  the Provincial League were “ getting on a bit”.The up and coming men were the “younger ones”likes of Hunter,Monk,Boocock,Pratt,Brett ,Wilson and Mauger to name a few who went on to better things.

Edited July 28, 2020 by Fromafar

[norbold]

9 hours ago, BL65 said:

In comparison with other riders of that era it is perhaps unlikely that Redmond or Brown, even with a regular team slot, would have risen to heat leader standard in the National League in 1960/61. 

Thanks as always for your comprehensive and well researched reply, BL. Just to say I didn't mean they would be heat leader status, I did mean I thought they would be good enough for second string positions.

[BL65]

3 hours ago, norbold said:

Thanks as always for your comprehensive and well researched reply, BL. Just to say I didn't mean they would be heat leader status, I did mean I thought they would be good enough for second string positions.

Ivor Brown was one of the top riders throughout the Provincial League era from 1960 to 1964, with league averages of 9.78, 10.14, 10.21, 10.30 and 10.39.  When the National and Provincial leagues amalgamated in 1965 he started the season in the same vein.  Up until his awful injury in the Internationale at Wimbledon on 7^th June he had ridden in 6 league matches against the ex-Nationals (2 at home and 4 away) and 10 against the ex-Provincials (6 home, 4 away).  The former NL teams were generally ‘top-heavy’, with strong heat leaders and a weaker lower end of the team, whereas the former PL teams contained very few ex-NL heat leader standard riders and were more evenly balanced.  By 7^th June, Ivor's league average against the former Nationals was 9.44 and against the former Provincials it was 10.04, with an overall figure of 9.83.  In the meetings against the ex-NL teams he had raced against Nigel Boocock, Mountford and Lightfoot at Coventry, Briggs, Broadbank and Ashby home and away against Swindon, How, Pander and Gooch at Oxford, McKinlay and Norman Hunter at West Ham, Maidment and McGregor at home to Belle Vue.  The ex-PL teams he rode against included Brian Brett (Newcastle), Bob Andrews (Wolverhampton) and Ronnie Genz (Poole).  This indicates that by the end of the PL era Ivor had become capable of delivering heat leader scores at the top level.  Although the commuting Swedes were not allowed to ride in the BL in 1965 it is unlikely that their presence would have diminished Brown’s scoring significantly across the season, given that teams met each other just once home and away, with number one riders only programmed to meet once.  Missing from 1964 were Soren Sjosten, Ove Fundin, Bjorn Knutson, Bengt Jansson and Gote Nordin.

Meanwhile, Trevor Redmond averaged just under 11 for Bristol in 1960, then maintained this level in a few meetings for Wolverhampton in 1961.  His average dipped a little over the next 3 years as he mixed promoting and riding, achieving 9.43 at Neath, then 8.50 at St Austell and 7.44 at Glasgow.  Trevor was aged 37 when the British League started, the same age as Ivor Brown.  If Trevor had focused only on riding there is no doubt he could have been competitive at the top level for a while longer.

[iris123]

Mixing a bit of the original theme and where it had headed. Miller was replaced in the Coventry team by P.O.Söderman. Was he the first foreign rider in the lower league ? How and when were they allowed to ride, and when were they banned, as it was the 80s and Rye House that forced the door open again. So I guess maybe they weren't banned, it was just a promoters agreement ? 

[BL65]

22 hours ago, iris123 said:

Mixing a bit of the original theme and where it had headed. Miller was replaced in the Coventry team by P.O.Söderman. Was he the first foreign rider in the lower league ? How and when were they allowed to ride, and when were they banned, as it was the 80s and Rye House that forced the door open again. So I guess maybe they weren't banned, it was just a promoters agreement ? 

Söderman was probably the first 'commuting' Scandinavian in the lower divisions.  Apart from the abundance of riders from Commonwealth countries and some from Ireland, a couple of instances of non UK born riders in the lower leagues come to mind.  Max Rech (born in Poland but resident in the UK as he didn’t return home after the war) rode in Division 2 for Fleetwood in 1950 and in Division 3 for St Austell from 1950 to 1952; Sandor Levai, who left his native Hungary during the 1956 uprising to live in the UK, rode for Stoke in 1963 in the Provincial League. 

The absence of commuting foreign riders in the lower leagues was most likely due to cost, not to mention the time involved in travel in the 1950s.  When the British League Division 2 was established in 1968 its original primary goal was to provide opportunities for new and upcoming riders, with several tracks operated by promoters who also had interests in Division One tracks. Over time perhaps the notion of opportunity and development of home grown talent gradually faded into the background as tracks felt the need to be competitive, successful and financially viable.  To paraphrase something Eric Linden wrote as the 1968 season ended, 'Division 2  tracks won't just keep finding, training and passing on their best talent to Division 1 tracks, they will attempt to hold on to their riders. Teams build up crowds by loyalty, to teams as well as to individuals. By moving on the top men you have the possibility of discontent.'  Although tracks may achieve a degree of competitiveness by taking the approach of spending on commuting riders, if the outcome is not success in terms of a trophy-winning team then financial viability is unlikely to be achieved.  The problem of engaging commuting foreigners and the costs that entails at any level is that if one track does it then others tend to do likewise so as not to be left behind. In the 1950s the introduction of a foreign rider brought an element of awe and wonder and probably boosted attendances, at least in the short term.  Increased attendances were reported at Brandon after Coventry brought in Söderman, but he was highly successful on track for them, which was hardly surprising as he finished 5th= with Briggs and McKinlay in the world final that year. 

[iris123]

Great stuff, although I thought both Rech and Levai were naturalised. And tbh I thought Sandor rode in the National League rather than lower down. Thanks

[BL65]

4 hours ago, iris123 said:

Great stuff, although I thought both Rech and Levai were naturalised. And tbh I thought Sandor rode in the National League rather than lower down. Thanks

Sandor rode in 13 meetings for Stoke in 1963, before joining Norwich in 1964.  Stoke closed at the end of 1963, Norwich closed at the end of 1964, so maybe Belle Vue fans were a bit nervous when he moved to Hyde Road in 1965.

[BOBBATH]

And don't lets forget Teo Teodorowicz

[BL65]

6 hours ago, BOBBATH said:

And don't lets forget Teo Teodorowicz

Not forgotten, but Teo rode in the National League and the other references were to riders who had appeared in the lower divisions.

[norbold]

20 minutes ago, BL65 said:

Not forgotten, but Teo rode in the National League and the other references were to riders who had appeared in the lower divisions.

Indeed. There's a long history of foreign riders in speedway's top division going right back to even before the National League to the Southern League.

Edited July 31, 2020 by norbold

[BOBBATH]

Sorry BL65- my mistake-misread the thread, you are quite right.

[iris123]

Seen Tommy was featured in a set of cigarette cards that I didn't know about. Stars of Scottish speedway. Guess this was a historical collection, but does anyone know when it came out and all of the 25(?) riders included. See that Ken McKinlay was in as was George Hunter. And as his mentions he began riding in 1958 it was issued after Miller had retired

[norbold]

8 minutes ago, iris123 said:

Seen Tommy was featured in a set of cigarette cards that I didn't know about. Stars of Scottish speedway. Guess this was a historical collection, but does anyone know when it came out and all of the 25(?) riders included. See that Ken McKinlay was in as was George Hunter. And as his mentions he began riding in 1958 it was issued after Miller had retired

They came out in 2002, issued by J F Sporting Collectibles.

[norbold]

They also issued Stars of Bradford Speedway, Stars of London Speedway, Stars of Midland Speedway and Wembley Speedway Stars.

Just to add, I don't know which riders were featured on the Scottish set. The only other one I know was Jack Young.

Edited August 2, 2020 by norbold

[iris123]

Thanks norbold. New to me.Didn’t know there were modern issues. I imagined they were all fairly old and one came with each packet of cigarettes

Edited August 2, 2020 by iris123

[BL65]

32 minutes ago, iris123 said:

Seen Tommy was featured in a set of cigarette cards that I didn't know about. Stars of Scottish speedway. Guess this was a historical collection, but does anyone know when it came out and all of the 25(?) riders included. See that Ken McKinlay was in as was George Hunter. And as his mentions he began riding in 1958 it was issued after Miller had retired

Junior Bainbridge, Bobby Beaton, Oyvind Berg, Derek Close, Les Collins, Reidar Eide, Gruff Garland, Jack Gordon, Keith Gurtner, Bert Harkins, Frank Hodgson, George Hunter, Ken Le Breton, Danny Lee, Norman Lindsay, Will Lowther, Ken McKinlay, Jim McMillan, Tommy Miller, Charlie Monk, Bruce Semmens, Doug Templeton, Willie Templeton, Willie Wilson, Jack Young.
 

[BL65]

Stars of Bradford (24): Joe Abbott, Al Allisson, Dave Baugh, Jack Biggs, Nigel Boocock, Arthur Bush, Ron Clarke, Neil Evitts, Arthur Forrest, Gruff Garland, Max Grosskreutz, Oliver Hart, Gary Havelock, Alan Knapkin, Bill Longley, Bob Lovell, Bob Mason, Gary Peterson, Ernie Price, Eddie Rigg, Alec Statham, Kelvin Tatum, Fred Tuck, Arthur Wright

Stars of London (24): Jack Biggs, Cyril Brine, Howdy Byford, Eric Chitty, Malcolm Craven, Tommy Croombs, Eric French, Dick Geary, Jimmy Gibb, Billy Gilbert, Ron Howes, Ron Johnson, Frank Lawrence, Aub Lawson, Bill Longley, Jack Milne, Ray Moore, George Newton, Norman Parker, Geoff Pymar, Cyril Roger, Tiger Stevenson, Nobby Stock, Les Wotton

Stars of Midland (24): Ken Adams, Harry Bastable, Nigel Boocock, John Boulger, Ivor Brown, Arthur Browning, Phil Collins, Sam Ermolenko, Alan Grahame, Erik Gundersen, John Hart, Phil Hart, Phil Herne, Roger Hill, Alan Hunt, Peter Jarman, Hans Nielsen, Ole Olsen, Bernt Persson, Malcolm Shakespeare, Derrick Tailby, Roy Trigg, Graham Warren, Ray Wilson

Wembley - Series 1 (15): Bruce Abernethy, Brian Crutcher, Eric French, Billy, Gilbert, Bill Kitchen, Wilbur Lamoreaux, Fred Lang, Bob Oakley, Tommy Price, Trevor Redmond, Split Waterman, Bob Wells, George Wilks, Eric Williams, Freddie Williams

Wembley - Series 2 (21): Wayne Briggs, Gordon Byers, Frank Charles, Roy Craighead, Broncho Dixon, Roger Frogley, Ove Fundin, George Greenwood, Eric Gregory, Morian Hansen, Bert Harkins, Dave Jessup, Billy Lamont, Ginger Lees, Wally Little, Jim Milward, Gote Nordin, Jack Ormston, Lionel Van Praag, Colin Watson, Harry Whitfield

[BOBBATH]

Lots of interesting stuff here mates, but hang on for a minute-getting back to Atomic Tommy  what do you reckon was the reason for his precipitous decline after Glasgow. He was like a shining comet that fell to earth.