BluPanther Posted January 28, 2021 Report Share Posted January 28, 2021 2 hours ago, Spl77 said: Part of the problem is that the bikes are just to quick/powerful for the UK tracks. Part of the UK reset should be slower standard equipment that is not only better suited to the UK tracks but also cheaper to maintain. Lets go back to uprights in the UK, safer and cheaper to maintain.... 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWC Posted January 28, 2021 Report Share Posted January 28, 2021 2 hours ago, Blupanther said: Lets go back to uprights in the UK, safer and cheaper to maintain.... The racing was better and safer with skill on the bike being paramount rather than ‘gate and go’ ! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.D Posted January 28, 2021 Report Share Posted January 28, 2021 4 hours ago, Blupanther said: Lets go back to uprights in the UK, safer and cheaper to maintain.... 2 hours ago, GWC said: The racing was better and safer with skill on the bike being paramount rather than ‘gate and go’ ! People may laugh but most tracks in the UK are not suited to the modern super tuned laydown engines.. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWC Posted January 28, 2021 Report Share Posted January 28, 2021 1 hour ago, M.D said: People may laugh but most tracks in the UK are not suited to the modern super tuned laydown engines.. Peter Collins said this many years ago U.K. tracks with few exceptions took their shape from the stadia unlike Sweden Poland Denmark that had built stadiums to suit a track shape. He would know coming from Belle Vue specifically built for Speedway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.D Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 23 hours ago, GWC said: Peter Collins said this many years ago U.K. tracks with few exceptions took their shape from the stadia unlike Sweden Poland Denmark that had built stadiums to suit a track shape. He would know coming from Belle Vue specifically built for Speedway. He was spot on, the way it could be done is to limit the RPM on engines to make them more suitable for uk tracks and thus limit service intervals for engines. Engines won't need to be tuned like they are with a rev limit, cutting costs to riders and the bikes will be suited far more to our unique tracks that we have built due to the stadia we have worked with. I think it would be worth looking at but it will go against what the rest of the world in speedway is going with so I very much doubt it will ever be considered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.D Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 If you look at a speedway rider as a basic buisness model it becomes simple with the needs. Look at it as a basic XYZ X Turnover Y Expense Z profit Rider needs to make a lot of X to pay Y in order to make Z Reduce Y and then X can be reduced so Z can still be achieved Reduce X then wages will be reduced and clubs can be sustainable with a wage bill they can afford. Reducing rider costs is a way forward in my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny the spud Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 On 1/28/2021 at 9:05 PM, M.D said: People may laugh but most tracks in the UK are not suited to the modern super tuned laydown engines.. Bearing in mind that laydowns have been used for about 30 years then they should sort the damned tracks out then. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluPanther Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 2 hours ago, Jonny the spud said: Bearing in mind that laydowns have been used for about 30 years then they should sort the damned tracks out then. How is that even possible ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenryW Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 3 hours ago, Jonny the spud said: Bearing in mind that laydowns have been used for about 30 years then they should sort the damned tracks out then. Laydows came into common use at a time that the UK league was THE place to race, and all the top guys that raced there switched to use laydowns in the UK...So are the tracks really unsuitable for laydowns? Have the tracks got worse? Or is it nothing to do with upright vs laydown and more about engine developments/tuning? Genuine question...I don't know, and guess that you probably have more insight... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.D Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 4 hours ago, HenryW said: Laydows came into common use at a time that the UK league was THE place to race, and all the top guys that raced there switched to use laydowns in the UK...So are the tracks really unsuitable for laydowns? Have the tracks got worse? Or is it nothing to do with upright vs laydown and more about engine developments/tuning? Genuine question...I don't know, and guess that you probably have more insight... Its more the shape of them, most tracks are to small and narrow 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Najjer Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 On 1/28/2021 at 12:02 PM, GWC said: Let’s go back 15 years and Len Silver ran full second half racing after the main meeting and helped produce a lot of good young riders. Unfortunately the problem has always been at what level these riders can achieve and as is so often the case they find a level they want and don’t improve through ability or in a lot of cases injury. Every so often a gem turns up but because the standard required for top flight racing is so high today, it’s probably 1 in 100 as opposed to 1 in 10 some 40 years ago. There used to be full second halves at Somerset too going around 12/13 years or so. We used to have proper 6 heat matches nearly every week. I would say less than half the crowd used to stay behind, maybe even a quarter. I believe it ended up stopping as the riders became a constant problem with constant withdrawals at the last minute and endless amounts of rebookings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 (edited) 10 hours ago, Jonny the spud said: Bearing in mind that laydowns have been used for about 30 years then they should sort the damned tracks out then. Always amazed me how tracks with a similar size footprint have such differing shapes... Gustrow for me is an example of how you can fit a wide, more circular track into a not too large footprint. Meaning the bikes dont "lock up" and potentially 'spit' the rider off when they hit some unexpected grip.. Maybe it's down to "trick track home advantage" that has led to clubs never changing their track shapes as bikes developed? Sky paid many of them a hell of a lot of money over the years which may have been better used in improving the racing product first and foremost... A wide, more circular track also seems to give riders more confidence to attack it, which, I presume, must be down to them feeling confident to ride harder given the rider in front wont potentially lock up and you hammer into him.. The Promoters at the NSS knew what was needed and just look at what that track delivers... Edited January 30, 2021 by mikebv 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.D Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 1 hour ago, mikebv said: Always amazed me how tracks with a similar size footprint have such differing shapes... Gustrow for me is an example of how you can fit a wide, more circular track into a not too large footprint. Meaning the bikes dont "lock up" and potentially 'spit' the rider off when they hit some unexpected grip.. Maybe it's down to "trick track home advantage" that has led to clubs never changing their track shapes as bikes developed? Sky paid many of them a hell of a lot of money over the years which may have been better used in improving the racing product first and foremost... A wide, more circular track also seems to give riders more confidence to attack it, which, I presume, must be down to them feeling confident to ride harder given the rider in front wont potentially lock up and you hammer into him.. The Promoters at the NSS knew what was needed and just look at what that track delivers... Its more that if a mistake is made, the bike will launch forward and with a narrow track there is no room to recover, so your in the fence.. The NSS was designed for modern speedway, wide and fast unlike a lot of UK tracks built and designed to fit inside the stadia they had to work with.. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWC Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 Mildenhall track is a good example of a tiny track but it’s shape produces fast full throttle action. Majority of U.K. tracks were long straights and sharp bends reflecting the stadia like a dog track. The new tracks like Somerset Redcar Scunthorpe built without that restriction are much better shape. Unfortunately the plan didn’t quite include Leicester for some reason. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spl77 Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 6 hours ago, mikebv said: Always amazed me how tracks with a similar size footprint have such differing shapes... Gustrow for me is an example of how you can fit a wide, more circular track into a not too large footprint. Meaning the bikes dont "lock up" and potentially 'spit' the rider off when they hit some unexpected grip.. Maybe it's down to "trick track home advantage" that has led to clubs never changing their track shapes as bikes developed? Sky paid many of them a hell of a lot of money over the years which may have been better used in improving the racing product first and foremost... A wide, more circular track also seems to give riders more confidence to attack it, which, I presume, must be down to them feeling confident to ride harder given the rider in front wont potentially lock up and you hammer into him.. The Promoters at the NSS knew what was needed and just look at what that track delivers... Alot of the issue is the foot print of the stadia & what is on the inside of outside of the speedway track that limits what can be done even if the money is available. Ipswich carried out major track works a few years ago and have been tinkering ever since. Not sure how much of a difference it has made to the racing though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sings4Speedway Posted February 1, 2021 Report Share Posted February 1, 2021 On 1/29/2021 at 8:56 PM, M.D said: He was spot on, the way it could be done is to limit the RPM on engines to make them more suitable for uk tracks and thus limit service intervals for engines. Engines won't need to be tuned like they are with a rev limit, cutting costs to riders and the bikes will be suited far more to our unique tracks that we have built due to the stadia we have worked with. I think it would be worth looking at but it will go against what the rest of the world in speedway is going with so I very much doubt it will ever be considered. Was this not planned to be introduced via a new ignition system only for them to not actually be available due to production / hologamation constraints? Another well thought out ruling. On 1/30/2021 at 9:54 AM, Najjer said: There used to be full second halves at Somerset too going around 12/13 years or so. We used to have proper 6 heat matches nearly every week. I would say less than half the crowd used to stay behind, maybe even a quarter. I believe it ended up stopping as the riders became a constant problem with constant withdrawals at the last minute and endless amounts of rebookings. 2nd halves stopped at Somerset because the track staff got fed up waiting for it to finish and wanted extra to stay on. Unfortunately rider availability and the lack of main meeting urgency hurt the numbers attending. The novelty for riders traveling fair distances to watch a lengthy interval, drawn out parade and interviews before curfew arriving and 2nd halves curt short/abandoned grew weary for many talented riders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyderd Posted February 1, 2021 Report Share Posted February 1, 2021 On 1/30/2021 at 2:05 AM, Blupanther said: How is that even possible ... Investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluPanther Posted February 1, 2021 Report Share Posted February 1, 2021 48 minutes ago, hyderd said: Investment. To do what exactly ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyderd Posted February 1, 2021 Report Share Posted February 1, 2021 i 1 minute ago, Blupanther said: To do what exactly ? Make them race able. Nobody especially would be new fans, want to see gate and go speedway, provide a decent surface with the right amount of dirt, then riders will have confidence in the track to race. At least that's my theory, but I am open to other suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sings4Speedway Posted February 1, 2021 Report Share Posted February 1, 2021 21 minutes ago, hyderd said: i Make them race able. Nobody especially would be new fans, want to see gate and go speedway, provide a decent surface with the right amount of dirt, then riders will have confidence in the track to race. At least that's my theory, but I am open to other suggestions. You are right to a point but even the right amount of dirt can produce one line racing at even the best tracks like NSS or Peterborough. If all the grip is out by the fence at the showground it just produces fast but processional racing. Tracks need multiple racing lines / options for track craft to decide the outcome rather than gating technique and most suitable engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.