Given the circumstances,will riders have to take a pay cut this season

[mikebv]

8 hours ago, Najjer said:

That's after signing on fees, sponsorship and endorsements too. Speedway riders do alright for themselves that's for sure.

Many do seem to do it 'globally' for a lot of years don't they?

Seems a long time to do something (especially something as dangerous as speedway), if all you will do is end up with not very much..

Especially as so many ride from being a teenager to mid to late 30's, and some even longer..

That's a lot of years to keep not making any money..

In another excellent Speedway Star, the current edition has an interview with true Legend, Ove Fundin, who is truly amazed in quoting an interview which appeared in a Swedish speedway magazine with a rider called Philip Hellstrom Bangs (yes THE Philip Hellstrom Bangs), a 17 year old kid making his first tentative steps into the sport..

He has openly said he has spent the Swedish equivalent of £130,000 on "three complete bikes, six engines, a van and 'all the extras', including a full time mechanic" (ex rider Robert Fils)...

"That's what it has to be if you want to go anywhere" was a quote..

How much will he want per point?

The problem of course is how this hyper inflates costs for others who may see that really is the only way to go. .

All running to stand still, all paying out fortunes, and all risking their necks to take a slice of an ever diminishing pie....

Absolute crackers...

Edited June 30, 2020 by mikebv

[Fromafar]

It’s very difficult to figure the money  the ordinary journey man makes out the sport when one of the top men over the last 15 years Chris Harris constantly says he finds it hard to make a living out of the sport.He just have to assume  they they like what they are doing and have decent sponsorships.

 

[old bob at herne bay]

Very good article in the Star by Ove. He omits the contribution of Norwich team mechanic Les Mullins who looked after the Norwich “track spare” that Ove rode with great success. 

Highlights the issue of too much money being invested in equipment by riders at all levels ... how any young lad can afford to start in UK speedway even at NL level beats me. 

The beginning of riders treating the sport as a business began with the late Ivan Mauger, with bikes mechanics and equipment scattered all over Europe. Many others followed his “professional” approach.

Maybe now is the time to look at introducing rules to reduce riders costs of participating in the sport. . 

 

[Fromafar]

16 minutes ago, old bob at herne bay said:

Very good article in the Star by Ove. He omits the contribution of Norwich team mechanic Les Mullins who looked after the Norwich “track spare” that Ove rode with great success. 

Highlights the issue of too much money being invested in equipment by riders at all levels ... how any young lad can afford to start in UK speedway even at NL level beats me. 

The beginning of riders treating the sport as a business began with the late Ivan Mauger, with bikes mechanics and equipment scattered all over Europe. Many others followed his “professional” approach.

Maybe now is the time to look at introducing rules to reduce riders costs of participating in the sport. . 

 

Don’t waste your breathe regarding introducing something to reduce costs.

[mikebv]

6 hours ago, Fromafar said:

Don’t waste your breathe regarding introducing something to reduce costs.

For me, the biggest and most important step is for the UK to stand alone, away from the global sector of the sport.

Fundin said that those who progress to the GP's should then move out of UK domestic racing to free up places for others coming through..

The two worlds of Poland and the UK are you could say 'poles apart' so why the UK still clings on to the odd GP star or two is beyond me..

As all it does is unbalance the league anyway, raise overall costs for those who then try and compete with teams with GP riders, create inconsistent fixture lists to accommodate them, and often mean guest replacements when fixtures cant be rearranged which impacts the whole credibility of the league.

When the UK sees itself in it's true position, as that of a stepping stone to greater financial rewards and global fame for those who progress through it, it can then rebuild itself a framework that is fit for purpose to grow the sport in the UK..

Not holding my breath obviously..

Too many egos involved who refuse to accept that the UK are simply not important, or influential anymore, in the grand scheme of things globally I think to let it happen.. 

The irony being of course is that if they had a very successful GB team their influence on the global stage would grow accordingly, with wider UK media interest also growing the same..

The UK should be a conveyor belt for UK talent to progress through to the top level, which will then have the knock on effect of increased public interest, which can only then benefit the domestic leagues accordingly.. 

Like the RFU and TCCB acknowledged many years ago now when their domestic sports were respectively somewhat in the doldrums, a successful National team brings in the interest, sponsorship and crowds which then permeates down to the domestic level of competition..

A blueprint worth following I would suggest..

[old bob at herne bay]

A UK league with no GP riders may be forced upon UK speedway sooner rather than later IF and only IF they ever manage to get UK league speedway running this season. Some recalcualtions of  teams strengths will  be required .... but it would certainly enable  some clubs to cut their riders wages bill considerably in what MIGHT be a shortened 2020 season.  Who are we talking about  Doyle, Lambert,  Niels Kristen Iversen. Wouldnt be missed IMO . 

 

[SteveLyric2]

20 hours ago, old bob at herne bay said:

A UK league with no GP riders may be forced upon UK speedway sooner rather than later IF and only IF they ever manage to get UK league speedway running this season. Some recalcualtions of  teams strengths will  be required .... but it would certainly enable  some clubs to cut their riders wages bill considerably in what MIGHT be a shortened 2020 season.  Who are we talking about  Doyle, Lambert,  Niels Kristen Iversen. Wouldnt be missed IMO . 

 

Its not just about GP riders though is it?  Any rider based in Poland especially those with an Ekstraliga place who also has a British team place will also be affected in the same way.

[East End Fan]

On 7/1/2020 at 6:50 AM, mikebv said:

For me, the biggest and most important step is for the UK to stand alone, away from the global sector of the sport.

Fundin said that those who progress to the GP's should then move out of UK domestic racing to free up places for others coming through..

The two worlds of Poland and the UK are you could say 'poles apart' so why the UK still clings on to the odd GP star or two is beyond me..

As all it does is unbalance the league anyway, raise overall costs for those who then try and compete with teams with GP riders, create inconsistent fixture lists to accommodate them, and often mean guest replacements when fixtures cant be rearranged which impacts the whole credibility of the league.

When the UK sees itself in it's true position, as that of a stepping stone to greater financial rewards and global fame for those who progress through it, it can then rebuild itself a framework that is fit for purpose to grow the sport in the UK..

Not holding my breath obviously..

Too many egos involved who refuse to accept that the UK are simply not important, or influential anymore, in the grand scheme of things globally I think to let it happen.. 

The irony being of course is that if they had a very successful GB team their influence on the global stage would grow accordingly, with wider UK media interest also growing the same..

The UK should be a conveyor belt for UK talent to progress through to the top level, which will then have the knock on effect of increased public interest, which can only then benefit the domestic leagues accordingly.. 

Like the RFU and TCCB acknowledged many years ago now when their domestic sports were respectively somewhat in the doldrums, a successful National team brings in the interest, sponsorship and crowds which then permeates down to the domestic level of competition..

A blueprint worth following I would suggest..

During the 70's, England had a particularly successful international team, winning the World Team Cup several times as I remember. We also used to have

test match series against Australia and Sweden for example which I seem to recall we always won ( or at least mostly).  What I don't remember is any huge

rise in interest from newspapers or TV. In fact our Speedway success was largely ignored. This might just be my memory not being too good, but there must be

others out there who were fans at the time. What do they remember ?  The point is that international success for Brits does not necessarily translate into more

fans on the terraces...sadly.

[mikebv]

7 hours ago, East End Fan said:

During the 70's, England had a particularly successful international team, winning the World Team Cup several times as I remember. We also used to have

test match series against Australia and Sweden for example which I seem to recall we always won ( or at least mostly).  What I don't remember is any huge

rise in interest from newspapers or TV. In fact our Speedway success was largely ignored. This might just be my memory not being too good, but there must be

others out there who were fans at the time. What do they remember ?  The point is that international success for Brits does not necessarily translate into more

fans on the terraces...sadly.

ITV showed every major event for years when England were having success and I dont think it was coincidence that this was a boom time for the sport.

Virtually every fortnight there was a meeting beamed into literally millions of homes.

Riders were household names, standing alongside the most famous sportsmen of the day...

As a kid growing up in the 70"s, weekly magazines like 'Tiger' and their annuals, had full pages dedicated to the likes of Peter Collins, with posters and interviews..

When PC won the World Title in 76, the Sunday Mirror (for one) ran the story on their back page sharing the lead headlines with the football.. 

In fact, as an 8 year old kid, I remember being in Rhyl on a day out the day later, where outside one of the newsagents was one of those 'A frame' boards advertising certain papers and "PC lands World Title" was the message on it..(Things you remember as a kid)..

But that very advertising board showed (just by being there), the awareness level of the sport in the nation at that time, and would have been replicated all over the country in front of newsagents premises that morning as it was the lead corporate advertising from that newspaper..

However, when any domestic team won their league, hardly any coverage was given to it nationally, and I can guarantee that many of those who attended domestic speedway in those days did so because of the national team's success, and subsequent major coverage in both written and visual media.

In fact, I know we had the race fixing scandal which would have had some impact but, for me, the stranglehold of the Danes and the Yanks in the 80's did the most damage to the sport in the UK, as no longer was there a 'success story' to be shown on TV or written about in the Newspapers, hence their coverage reduced massively..

And when World Of Sport went, ITV obviously didnt see any mileage in keeping showing Speedway as a 'stand alone' sport nationally like they did with others..

As I said before, the media love a national success story, (its good for viewing and readership numbers), and both rugby and cricket realised this and radically changed their focus to ensuring their national teams became successful.

Because they realised that it didnt matter how many times the likes of Leicester or Saracens won their rugby titles, or Middelsex or Essex were County Champs in cricket, it would only deliver 'local coverage' in a major way, and that it was only by having success globally as a national team that their domestic leagues would benefit from that 'feel good' factor..

This blueprint has subsequently been attempted to be followed by Basketball and Ice Hockey who have both tried to increase the number of 'genuine not flag of convenience' UK participants to try and improve their national teams standing, in the hope more coverage and money comes their way, which can then filter down into the domestic game..

Speedway wont become successful again whilst promotions all do their own separate things in splendid isolation, all trying to out do each other in trying to win competitions hardly anyone cares about..

However. Win the SWC three years on the bounce, and have three or four riders in the top 10 in the World for 10 years or so, and I can guarantee domestic Speedway would benefit..

Edited July 4, 2020 by mikebv

[old bob at herne bay]

Skidder1 - agreed - and the ekstraliga contracts currently prohibit riders signed up in Poland leaving. 

So there will have to be re allocation of riders ..,adjustment of points limits and some agreement on use of guests/loan  replacement  riders to get any 2020 uk league programme going. 

With co operation and common sense from the promoters ......... OH DEAR I think have may have scuppered UK speedway 2020. 

[Hamish McRaker]

Has to be done by representatives of promoters and riders coming to an agreement on how it could be run. The riders would have to accept no financial guarantees, so their representatives would have to in turn contact all riders and sound them out as to how many would be prepared to go ahead on such a basis. Only when such data has been established, could clubs/promoters make plans on an operating model to run a league or leagues. Hopefully this has already taken place, because if not, there won't be much chance of anything going ahead except possible just NL level.

[Jonny the spud]

If riders have to take less because “ that’s how it is”. Does that mean that entry prices can increase too for the same reason ? 

[Fromafar]

3 hours ago, Jonny the spud said:

If riders have to take less because “ that’s how it is”. Does that mean that entry prices can increase too for the same reason ? 

 

3 hours ago, Jonny the spud said:

If riders have to take less because “ that’s how it is”. Does that mean that entry prices can increase too for the same reason ? 

I see your point,but that would be dodgy moveIMO

[Jonny the spud]

3 hours ago, Fromafar said:

 

I see your point,but that would be dodgy moveIMO

I wasn’t serious, I know a lot of riders who’ve spent (tens of) thousands getting ready for the season. Who’ve had to seek work in an already hard situation and are now being told by the online experts “well, you’ll just have to stop being greedy and take less money”

I wonder if the same experts will be just as cool when their boss says they have to take a pay cut. ? 

[Big Al]

The problem is, if the go-ahead were given for resumption of racing on, let's say, 1st August with a limit on attendance of 500, or 750, or 1000, there's going to be even greater uncertainty over how many will turn up and pay to watch than there normally is. Keep in mind the age factor - if speedway were popular among mostly the under 40's there wouldn't be such a lack of certainty. 

So nobody is going to know, until a few weeks have gone by (presuming reasonable weather), what income the clubs are going to be working with. You never know, it could turn out to be stunningly good, or atrocious. Until thats been resolved more, and as purely a one-off, there's got to be some flexibility on the part of both promoters and riders. We want to ensure the clubs who give things a go don't go bust and stay in existence next season. If some riders decide against going ahead, at least initially for whatever reason, on a flexible basis then fair enough, that decision should be respected and be welcomed back again in 2021. 

It's not a matter of greed, it's a matter of being realistic and working together.

[Jonny the spud]

Flexibility is great, but for many riders who’ve been screwed over by clubs and are owed thousands ( it’s not just in Poland ) the chance of riding and “hoping everything will be fine” will mean that they may prefer to sit the season out. 

[topsoil]

2 hours ago, Jonny the spud said:

I wasn’t serious, I know a lot of riders who’ve spent (tens of) thousands getting ready for the season. Who’ve had to seek work in an already hard situation and are now being told by the online experts “well, you’ll just have to stop being greedy and take less money”

I wonder if the same experts will be just as cool when their boss says they have to take a pay cut. ? 

So what's your thoughts (and maybe more importantly Adam's) on standardised equipment? What if clubs owned the machinery and only paid riders a much reduced "wage" as the riders wouldn't have the costs to meet.

Is it feasible to have standardised bikes in Britain, while Sweden, Poland and the GP's continue with the current setup?

[Jonny the spud]

I’ve never met a rider who thinks that standardized equipment is a good thing. Bike set up is crucial if you’re riding a bike at todays speeds. Most riders can tell if the seat is a couple of cms too high etc. 

The difference in riders height / weight / preference of which handlebars / seat etc all comes into play. 
 

you have to have absolute confidence in your equipment to be able to race properly. How many times do you see a rider jump on a team mates for a heat bike and ride just as well as if he was on his own equipment? 

[mikebv]

17 hours ago, Jonny the spud said:

I wasn’t serious, I know a lot of riders who’ve spent (tens of) thousands getting ready for the season. Who’ve had to seek work in an already hard situation and are now being told by the online experts “well, you’ll just have to stop being greedy and take less money”

I wonder if the same experts will be just as cool when their boss says they have to take a pay cut. ? 

Sadly I think a great many around the globe will not get the chance to get their salaries reduced as they will lose their salary completely...

Many companies who were already under pressure will take this opportunity to restructure, and change terms and conditions, whilst blaming Covid 19..

With some of those losing, or getting reduced income, being fans of the sport, which can only mean less revenue as 'recession' bites..

I think the most telling line is the one around how much riders pay out getting ready for the season, and it truly is a staggering amount given they get watched performing on their expensive equipment, in many places, by just a few hundred people every week..

It really is a vicious circle that needs to be broken as everyone, it appears, make nothing like the money they should (and deserve), for what they do.

Unless, of course, Poland comes knocking and you become an elite rider, with the salary and individual sponsorship that reflects your position in the high profile sport that Speedway is over there..

Unfortunately, over here we do seem to have a continual race to the bottom, where everyone pays out fortunes, whilst clubs close as they can't make ends meet..

You have to feel for the riders, and the vast majority of fans do genuinely appreciate and admire what they do, but sadly, if the money isn't there to pay them they can't have it..

Just like many millions of others will unfortunately find out the same. .

Edited July 10, 2020 by mikebv

[topsoil]

5 hours ago, Jonny the spud said:

I’ve never met a rider who thinks that standardized equipment is a good thing. Bike set up is crucial if you’re riding a bike at todays speeds. Most riders can tell if the seat is a couple of cms too high etc. 

The difference in riders height / weight / preference of which handlebars / seat etc all comes into play. 
 

you have to have absolute confidence in your equipment to be able to race properly. How many times do you see a rider jump on a team mates for a heat bike and ride just as well as if he was on his own equipment? 

I probably phrased that one wrongly, what I should have said was standardised engines. I realise that every rider will have their seats and so on at different heights. I am thinking, anything to save money.