proud panther Posted June 17, 2020 Report Share Posted June 17, 2020 5 hours ago, greyhoundp said: The problem PP is the average number of fans has gone down to the point of no return, so its new fans that we need to attract and at £18 per meeting its not going to happen, £36 for me and the missus to watch 15 minutes of racing sometimes on a cold night doesnt appeal to me anymore, and im a life long speedway fan.. The sport has to be more fan friendly and it can begin by bringing the cost down, dont say it cant be done because it can but i rarely see any announcement from the BSPL saying they are looking at ways of doing it.. Agree with you, out of interest, what price would be acceptable to you ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proud panther Posted June 17, 2020 Report Share Posted June 17, 2020 1 hour ago, RobMcCaffery said: A lower standard of riding does not ensure a lower standard of racing as any Championship or NL supporter will confirm - if anyone's listening..... Watched NL for a couple of seasons, & always enjoyed it. Watching Adam Ellis come to Mildenhall & tear it up against a powerful Mildenhall top 3 was a brilliant afternoon. Would rather have that standard of speedway than none at all. Question is, would we have enough riders willing to ride part time, & also get a job ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proud panther Posted June 17, 2020 Report Share Posted June 17, 2020 2 hours ago, ch958 said: i've already said that Well I'm agreeing with you xx 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proud panther Posted June 17, 2020 Report Share Posted June 17, 2020 1 hour ago, cityrebel said: There is a lot of snobbery in speedway. When West Ham dropped down a league, it was like pulling teeth trying to get my old man to take me to Custom House. Try going to show jumping events if you want to see snobbery. My daughter competed for 7 years at local events, & the majority of the people were wanna be snobs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HertsRacer Posted June 17, 2020 Report Share Posted June 17, 2020 1 hour ago, cityrebel said: There is a lot of snobbery in speedway. When West Ham dropped down a league, it was like pulling teeth trying to get my old man to take me to Custom House. In fairness to your dad it wasn't West Ham moving down but Romford Bombers using the track as a stop gap. As a Bombers supporter I didn't enjoy going to Custom House either. Didn't feel the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinmauger Posted June 17, 2020 Report Share Posted June 17, 2020 12 minutes ago, proud panther said: Try going to show jumping events if you want to see snobbery. My daughter competed for 7 years at local events, & the majority of the people were wanna be snobs. You can add cycle speedway, moto-x and karting to those sports; weren't we all there just to race and have fun, hmmm ? My first ever speedway meeting; my parents weren't at all interested but one day in 1974 a relative said "I know where the Boulevard is I've watched rugby (Hull FC) there and I'll take you to speedway one nite, 'especially as Hull are now in the 1st division' ".... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proud panther Posted June 17, 2020 Report Share Posted June 17, 2020 17 minutes ago, martinmauger said: You can add cycle speedway, moto-x and karting to those sports; weren't we all there just to race and have fun, hmmm ? My first ever speedway meeting; my parents weren't at all interested but one day in 1974 a relative said "I know where the Boulevard is I've watched rugby (Hull FC) there and I'll take you to speedway one nite, 'especially as Hull are now in the 1st division' ".... And BMX racing, what a bunch of knobs at the top end of that amateur sport !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinmauger Posted June 17, 2020 Report Share Posted June 17, 2020 (edited) 44 minutes ago, proud panther said: And BMX racing, what a bunch of knobs at the top end of that amateur sport !! I'd forgotten BMX which my brother rode. I recall a big thing with cycle speedway used to be 'cotterless pedal cranks' and 'welled wheels'. The cottterless cranks referred to the pedal cranks which attach the pedals to the front (bigger) chain wheel, apparently it was 'essential' to have alloy cranks which attached directly to the center axle in the frame, screwed on I think, as opposed to steel / chrome cranks which were slotted on and held in place by cotter pins. The welled wheels referred to the wheel rims which cross section were shaped like a bell as opposed to being squarish, also the centre hubs were bigger, so shorter spokes. They were admittedly cool as and looked a lot like the front wheel on a proper speedway bike. But we were talking about stripped down pushbikes which one pedalled as fast as one could, cool extras were nice to have and lightened the bike a bit , if one's mummy & daddy paid for such things as some did, but were hardly 'essential', though some riders considered they were.... Edited June 17, 2020 by martinmauger spelling 2x, added peasantness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted June 17, 2020 Report Share Posted June 17, 2020 7 hours ago, greyhoundp said: The problem PP is the average number of fans has gone down to the point of no return, so its new fans that we need to attract and at £18 per meeting its not going to happen, £36 for me and the missus to watch 15 minutes of racing sometimes on a cold night doesnt appeal to me anymore, and im a life long speedway fan.. The sport has to be more fan friendly and it can begin by bringing the cost down, dont say it cant be done because it can but i rarely see any announcement from the BSPL saying they are looking at ways of doing it.. Graham Drury in the Speedway Star (another excellent issue), talks about how he loved his time promoting in the NL, "riders just rode, no flights, accommodation, or transport requests". And when he rode 2nd Division how it was mainly 'part time' with riders having jobs, unlike today where so many have salary expectations to allow them to be 'pro' speedway riders in that league... So, we actually know 'what can work', and we also know 'what used to work' (pretty much the old 2nd Division NL).. Therefore that surely has to be the target to get back too? It does also make me wonder how much of my admission cost goes into the riders' own personal agendas through their salary from the clubs. By that I mean their own individual aspirations... I've said before, so much money comes into Speedway through fans attendance and individual sponsorship, yet so much of what gets paid out doesn't postively impact the domestic leagues in any way shape or form, but instead, goes to fund riders wanting to be full time pros and help support their own ambitions on the wider global individual stage.. No disrespect but any current GB rider winning the World Individual title won't put bums on seats over here every week. This was a pipe dream mantra from a long time ago, ie a belief a GB World Champ would be like finding The Holy Grail for the sport in the UK.. Havelock, Loram and Woffy (3 times) subsequently proved that wasn't correct. (Even when Tai rode here).. Therefore, the UK should just cut its cloth accordingly, putting the clubs first... In short, if charging £18 isn't bringing in enough punters through the doors as they tell you that you are too expensive, then listen to them and drop your prices... And if you can't drop your prices as you say your costs won't allow it, then reduce your costs so you can... I can guarantee that the many punters who no longer attend due to them not seeing £18-£20 as an acceptable or affordable price point, wont wake up one morning and suddenly then decide that it is and rock up in their droves.. And this absent, silent majority, are the ones that need 'listening' to.. 7 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midland Red Posted June 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2020 Spot on Mikebv. Just add “take it off the tv” and you increase the chances of success Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted June 17, 2020 Report Share Posted June 17, 2020 43 minutes ago, mikebv said: Graham Drury in the Speedway Star (another excellent issue), talks about how he loved his time promoting in the NL, "riders just rode, no flights, accommodation, or transport requests". And when he rode 2nd Division how it was mainly 'part time' with riders having jobs, unlike today where so many have salary expectations to allow them to be 'pro' speedway riders in that league... So, we actually know 'what can work', and we also know 'what used to work' (pretty much the old 2nd Division NL).. Therefore that surely has to be the target to get back too? It does also make me wonder how much of my admission cost goes into the riders' own personal agendas through their salary from the clubs. By that I mean their own individual aspirations... I've said before, so much money comes into Speedway through fans attendance and individual sponsorship, yet so much of what gets paid out doesn't postively impact the domestic leagues in any way shape or form, but instead, goes to fund riders wanting to be full time pros and help support their own ambitions on the wider global individual stage.. No disrespect but any current GB rider winning the World Individual title won't put bums on seats over here every week. This was a pipe dream mantra from a long time ago, ie a belief a GB World Champ would be like finding The Holy Grail for the sport in the UK.. Havelock, Loram and Woffy (3 times) subsequently proved that wasn't correct. (Even when Tai rode here).. Therefore, the UK should just cut its cloth accordingly, putting the clubs first... In short, if charging £18 isn't bringing in enough punters through the doors as they tell you that you are too expensive, then listen to them and drop your prices... And if you can't drop your prices as you say your costs won't allow it, then reduce your costs so you can... I can guarantee that the many punters who no longer attend due to them not seeing £18-£20 as an acceptable or affordable price point, wont wake up one morning and suddenly then decide that it is and rock up in their droves.. And this absent, silent majority, are the ones that need 'listening' to.. Out of interest, do you know how many other leagues operate with full time professional riders? I'm guessing Poland 1 & 2, Sweden 1, Not sure about Denmark for the non international riders? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted June 17, 2020 Report Share Posted June 17, 2020 1 hour ago, iainb said: Out of interest, do you know how many other leagues operate with full time professional riders? I'm guessing Poland 1 & 2, Sweden 1, Not sure about Denmark for the non international riders? Denmark always operated an amateur stance for many years but I guess that ceased during the eighties and/or nineties? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhoundp Posted June 17, 2020 Report Share Posted June 17, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, proud panther said: Agree with you, out of interest, what price would be acceptable to you ? I personally think £12 max, with the 3rd Tier League ie NL being £10, How anyone can justify more than £10 for a development League is beyond me after all there is no way most of those riders should be able to earn a living from the sport at that stage of there career, as for the senior racing its not what a rider is worth but whats considered affordable to watch, and if the promoters cant afford to pay above whats a break even point then the riders must accept that and get a job to enable them to continue in the Sport or leave the Sport altogether.. there is NO other option to that, and if the riders and promoters think there is then they are living in cloud cuckoo land.. Edited June 17, 2020 by greyhoundp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted June 17, 2020 Report Share Posted June 17, 2020 (edited) 19 minutes ago, greyhoundp said: I personally think £12 max, with the 3rd Tier League ie NL being £10, How anyone can justify more than £10 for a development League is beyond me after all there is no way most of those riders should be able to earn a living from the sport at that stage of there career, as for the senior racing its not what a rider is worth but whats considered affordable to watch, and if the promoters cant afford to pay above whats a break even point then the riders must accept that and get a job to enable them to continue in the Sport or leave the Sport altogether.. there is NO other option to that, and if the riders and promoters think there is then they are living in cloud cuckoo land.. On the other hand maybe upping the price to make it seem more exclusive and maybe get rid of a lot of the older fans to bring in a fresh young look and make the sport more fashionable is the answer ? Trying to keep the old people happy doesn't seem to have worked. And look at the crowds in Poland . Despite the fallacy often bandied about, the sport isn't cheap there and the crowd isn't full of old people with blankets and flasks. It is young and fashionable. But you have to get out and market it to the young and there isn't really anyone in the sport capable of pulling it off. Just a thought though...... The number one reason businesses fail is, simply, their prices are too low. They don’t sell their products at prices high enough, then they operate on margins so small they are unable to expand There is no company that can’t increase prices if they understand a few simple tips It is a well known and successful market strategy Edited June 17, 2020 by iris123 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted June 17, 2020 Report Share Posted June 17, 2020 Just now, iris123 said: On the other hand maybe upping the price to make it seem more exclusive and maybe get rid of a lot of the older fans to bring in a fresh young look and make the sport more fashionable is the answer ? Trying to keep the old people happy doesn't seem to have worked. And look at the crowds in Poland . Despite the fallacy often bandied about, the sport isn't cheap there and the crowd isn't full of old people with blankets and flasks. It is young and fashionable. But you have to get out and market it to the young and there isn't really anyone in the sport capable of pulling it off. Just a thought though...... nothing fashionable in Poland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted June 17, 2020 Report Share Posted June 17, 2020 1 minute ago, ch958 said: nothing fashionable in Poland It attracts a young crowd. Just as the big meetings in Denmark do. We even league meetings attract a fairly diverse crowd, but the big meetings really bring out the young have a few bevvy crowd, willing to pay out for food and drink. Totally different to the UK crowds in general. Just that is was reading one of those Jeff Scott fanzine style article a couple of days back. One that he wrote for the Irish Times at the end of last year..... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk127 Posted June 17, 2020 Report Share Posted June 17, 2020 1 hour ago, iris123 said: On the other hand maybe upping the price to make it seem more exclusive and maybe get rid of a lot of the older fans to bring in a fresh young look and make the sport more fashionable is the answer ? Trying to keep the old people happy doesn't seem to have worked. And look at the crowds in Poland . Despite the fallacy often bandied about, the sport isn't cheap there and the crowd isn't full of old people with blankets and flasks. It is young and fashionable. But you have to get out and market it to the young and there isn't really anyone in the sport capable of pulling it off. Just a thought though...... The number one reason businesses fail is, simply, their prices are too low. They don’t sell their products at prices high enough, then they operate on margins so small they are unable to expand There is no company that can’t increase prices if they understand a few simple tips It is a well known and successful market strategy I agree with this except that if you have riders chasing the ‘ holy grail’ spending thousands on equipment, it will not change. Why not have standard bikes and then those with the skill can hone their craft and they will be competitive and rise to the top. At the moment it is a case of who can throw the most dollar, pound, euro etc at equipment to simply buy a few seconds edge. That is not what the sport should be about. A level playing field with standard affordable equipment Hence a lower cost that may encourage younger riders might just allow a few newbies to think it is worth a go. As it stands, price wise it is an elitist sport for those with the best sponsors who have questionable skills and are generally the gate and go merchant whereas what it really needs is the rider who can control the machine, cope with track conditions and is in control. Few of today’s riders fall into the latter category. Get back to basics and the sport may have a chance. Again just an opinion but the reality Speedway U.K. is dire and someone needs to the balls to stop the rot. Those who moan that it is the promoter’s whose money is at risk and not those on this forum does not wash. If you are a business person get real. Piss or get off the pot. Stop whinging and if you are throwing money away then get out as you simply cannot make it pay. Riders, promoters and sponsors are so far apart it is never going to be a viable media spectacular. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Skid Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 Let's not forget, it's the Promoter who's chasing the plastic trophies, that agrees to pay the Riders what they ask for, can you imagine what Tesco would say if you went and asked for £25 an hour to stack shelves! Everyone knows the Sport is on it's knees, but still the Promoters are agreeing to deals that will drive them further into debt, there is no answer, as there will always be at least one Promoter in every League who has big pockets and an ego to match. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Lord Skid said: Let's not forget, it's the Promoter who's chasing the plastic trophies, that agrees to pay the Riders what they ask for, can you imagine what Tesco would say if you went and asked for £25 an hour to stack shelves! Everyone knows the Sport is on it's knees, but still the Promoters are agreeing to deals that will drive them further into debt, there is no answer, as there will always be at least one Promoter in every League who has big pockets and an ego to match. CURRENTLY, who do you think that might be? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 6 hours ago, PHILIPRISING said: CURRENTLY, who do you think that might be? to be fair, most of them because i doubt any are making a profit without huge backers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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