Polish Extraleague 2020

[racers and royals]

We move on to round 11 next weekend.

Friday August 21st Leszno v Grudziadz  start time 5pm Eleven Sports 1 and Freesports (5pm)

Friday August 21st Czestochowa v Gorzow start time 7.30pm Eleven Sports 1 and Premier Sport 2 (7.30pm)

Sunday August 23rd Rybnik v lublin programme start time 3pm 1st race 3.30pm  N Sport

Sunday August 23rd Zielona Gora v Wroclaw programme start time 5.45pm 1st race 6.15pm N sport

[Fromafar]

League racing in Poland is cutthroat these days ,it’s not easy to pick riders off down the back strait it all gets pretty hectic. Woffy is class and safe on the bike but if he doesn’t gate he is in trouble against the top men, there gone!!!
Smarzlek is certainly the one to beat in the GPs.

[r8gdp]

6 minutes ago, Fromafar said:

League racing in Poland is cutthroat these days ,it’s not easy to pick riders off down the back strait it all gets pretty hectic. Woffy is class and safe on the bike but if he doesn’t gate he is in trouble against the top men, there gone!!!
Smarzlek is certainly the one to beat in the GPs.

Your definitely right it is cutthroat. Woffy is a safe rider and I hope he s saving himself for a big push in the gps . Smarzlik is the one to beat he rides every race like his life depends on it , when behind he really pushes the rider in front but he can be beaten Emil got in front and road a very good race to keep him behind last week but boy did smarzlik pushed him all the way .

[Fromafar]

42 minutes ago, mikebv said:

Poland could do with attracting more followers of 50+ years of age..

Dont seem to have many..

Missing a trick there...

Maybe need to introduce concessions for Blue badge holders ,they fill the GB stadiums up these days.
ps

Its great to see so many young people at the Polish matches ,they must be doing something right.

[Fromafar]

3 minutes ago, r8gdp said:

Your definitely right it is cutthroat. Woffy is a safe rider and I hope he s saving himself for a big push in the gps . Smarzlik is the one to beat he rides every race like his life depends on it , when behind he really pushes the rider in front but he can be beaten Emil got in front and road a very good race to keep him behind last week but boy did smarzlik pushed him all the way .

Smarzlik and Emil are the stand out riders in Poland this year IMo.

[Bagpuss]

I saw Woffinden making plenty of effort, his gating was just too poor and Gorzow were just too quick tonight. Pretty dismal performance by Wroclaw though it has to be said, terrible out of the start. 

[Fromafar]

2 hours ago, racers and royals said:

Yes it normally is the best, but not today.

Ucoz is normally great,but like you say not today,it got ok at the end of 1st meeting right up to start of 2nd meeting the went ropy again strange!

Edited August 17, 2020 by Fromafar

[RobMcCaffery]

2 hours ago, Mark said:

The Polish love Z.     You do not have a V but say W as V.   Explain that to me

They don't have v because they use w instead and l with a bar gives them w. It's just how languages evolve. Most central European languages, including German use w for v. The Germans pronounce v as f. They probably think it's odd we use v in the way we do. It's only the same as how languages evolve with different words for the same thing. 

[Falubaz]

34 minutes ago, RobMcCaffery said:

They don't have v because they use w instead and l with a bar gives them w. It's just how languages evolve. Most central European languages, including German use w for v. The Germans pronounce v as f. They probably think it's odd we use v in the way we do. It's only the same as how languages evolve with different words for the same thing. 

Actually looking at Slavic languages most of them use Cyrillic. We don't coz of Christianisation of Poland. In 966 Poland officially overthrew paganism and became Catholic and to stress it out even more our King decided that we should use Roman alphabet instead. 

Besides although we are missing v, x and q we have ą, ć, ę, ł, ó, ś, ź and ż. Additionally we have clusters of few letters that are pronounced like a single sound for example: dż, drz, dzi, sz, cz etc. so if you don't know the rules you might get overwhelmed by all those consonants

 

This is from classic Polish comedy and it shows how speakers of germanic languages can struggle

 

 

Edited August 17, 2020 by Falubaz

[HenryW]

Sorry R+R, wildly drifting off topic on a well maintained thread, but it's a subject that interests me 

11 hours ago, RobMcCaffery said:

Bear in mind the Russian names are translations from the Russian script, cyrillic, so there is no official spelling in our alphabet. We convert to how we would spell the names and the Poles their way. Their w is a v sound so what we would call Victor would be Wiktor in Polish, and something looking totally different but sounding pretty much the same n Russian. 

Виктор would be the Russian equivalent of Victor/Wiktor.

11 hours ago, RobMcCaffery said:

The problem gets more complex with Latvia where two alphabets are in use, Russian and Latvian so an ethnic Russian's name in his own language may be Andrei Lebedev (check the back of his kevlars) or Andzejs Lebedevs in Latvian!

Latvian is the only official language in Latvia, something that has caused some problems/criticisms from the Russian speaking population in the South.
From his online presence, it seems that the rider in question spells his name Andžejs Lebedevs, but the most visible and prominent thing on the back of his kevlars recently has just been "AnJ" 

11 hours ago, RobMcCaffery said:

It works in reverse. The Russians don't use the letter h so to get close to that sound they use a mix of x and i. I learned this when I covered ice racing n Russia using a programme obviously written in Russian and with the names similarly treated. It took a while to find Jarmo Hirvasoja.....

Most transliterators I have used have taken a name starting with H to the cyrilic Х, which fits with the way that you pronounce the names of Cities like Ха́рьков or Хаба́ровск...And yet in English those get turned into Kharkov and Khabarovsk...I've never really understood how/why the "K" got involved there

I always enjoy seeing an online transliteration of a name that has gone from latin to cyrilic and back again but using different rules in each direction. You can end up with some strange results...

A simple example is the main speedway City of Russia, Тольятти, which depending on the transliterator used will probably give you Tolyatti, Toljatti or some other similar variant.
The City was named after Palmiro Togliatti, so it should really come back to Togliatti, but the transliteration rules going in each direction pretty much make it impossible for that to happen.

11 hours ago, RobMcCaffery said:

Oh and speedway to Zuzel, or .....Slag.......

That's always been a translation that amused me...
It ultimately makes sense, but the alternative meaning in English makes it amusing...

4 hours ago, Falubaz said:

Also there's no q nor x

Probably the more relevant question about those letters is why English still has them. They are completely worthless and could be replaced by others in almost all cases where they are used.

Anyway, to get back on topic, the current top 4 in the Ekstraliga seem like they should stay the top 4 for the playoffs if my predictions for results in the last 4 rounds are accurate.

Given the fact that I regularly lose when betting on speedway, it's probably safe to say my predictions are worthless 

Edited August 18, 2020 by HenryW

[Fromafar]

8 hours ago, Falubaz said:

Actually looking at Slavic languages most of them use Cyrillic. We don't coz of Christianisation of Poland. In 966 Poland officially overthrew paganism and became Catholic and to stress it out even more our King decided that we should use Roman alphabet instead. 

Besides although we are missing v, x and q we have ą, ć, ę, ł, ó, ś, ź and ż. Additionally we have clusters of few letters that are pronounced like a single sound for example: dż, drz, dzi, sz, cz etc. so if you don't know the rules you might get overwhelmed by all those consonants

 

This is from classic Polish comedy and it shows how speakers of germanic languages can struggle

 

 

Think we will stick with Lindback and get the thread back on track.!

[arnieg]

8 hours ago, HenryW said:

Sorry R+R, wildly drifting off topic on a well maintained thread, but it's a subject that interests me 

Виктор would be the Russian equivalent of Victor/Wiktor.

 

So Wiktor Lampart because we are using his Polish spelling

BUT

Viktor Trofimovs, because it is transliterated from his Ukrainian name which uses a cyrillic script.

PS I've often wondered about the rogue 'g' in Togliatti, thanks for the insight.

Edited August 18, 2020 by arnieg

[mikebv]

56 minutes ago, Fromafar said:

Think we will stick with Lindback and get the thread back on track.!

Wery good idea..

Vell said..

[IainB]

19 hours ago, RobMcCaffery said:

Bear in mind the Russian names are translations from the Russian script, cyrillic, so there is no official spelling in our alphabet. We convert to how we would spell the names and the Poles their way. Their w is a v sound so what we would call Victor would be Wiktor in Polish, and something looking totally different but sounding pretty much the same n Russian. 

Going back over the years the English translations have varied. Take Grigori Chlinovsky, aka Grigory Khlinovsky. Likewise Grigori/Grigory/Grigorij Laguta.

The problem gets more complex with Latvia where two alphabets are in use, Russian and Latvian so an ethnic Russian's name in his own language may be Andrei Lebedev (check the back of his kevlars) or Andzejs Lebedevs in Latvian!

In English we have very few accents over or under letters like the e in cafe. Other languages have many. I don't want to wrestle with the keyboard too much but taking the Antonio Lindback case. The a in Lindback in Swedish has a double dot accent over the a, known in German as an umlaut,  making his name phonetically closer to Lindbeck. In English we don't use that accent so we usually add an e to the vowel, hence the occasional use of Lindbaeck. 

The English alphabet isn't flexible to accommodate all these accents, usually applied to vowels to change their sounds. We compromise, and in so doing often get the pronunciation of foreign names very wrong. A y in Swedish is usually pronounced more like ew or a g like a y. The Poles don't just mess with vowels which is why Lech Walesa's name is pronounced Vawensa and Lodz as Woodz. In both cases the l has a bar across it, changing it to w. 

How do you cope? Compromise. We convert foreign names to our alphabet as best as we can  and the pronunciations accordingly. Other nations do the same. I remember being amused at the 1982 Intercontinental Final at Vetlanda announcer refer to Kelly Moron. Well, he as many things, but not that....

It works in reverse. The Russians don't use the letter h so to get close to that sound they use a mix of x and i. I learned this when I covered ice racing n Russia using a programme obviously written in Russian and with the names similarly treated. It took a while to find Jarmo Hirvasoja.....

So, it's all compromise in adjusting from one alphabet to another. Our lack of accents being used with vowels helps make English a tricky language to learn. 

Just a final one, Google Translate can offer some interesting translations. Dawid/Wiktor Leopard (Lampart) , Rafal Innkeeper (Karczmarz), Pawel Month (Miesiac). Oh and speedway to Zuzel, or .....Slag.......

Hope this makes sense. 

 

Yes all makes perfect sense, somebody should show Emil this as he's spelling his own name incorrectly on his own website and socials and Antonio, surely if that's how they spell their name that's how they spell their name... it's like my name is actually Raymond Luxury-Yacht but pronounced Throatwobbler Mangrove 

12 hours ago, KingoftheTrack said:

If he stay's fit then I don't see anyone stopping Zmarzlik lifting his second world crown this year.

Only 2 of the 8 rounds are at Gorzow though... he's not shown much elsewhere

12 hours ago, KingoftheTrack said:

With the rumours that British teams will be keeping the same 1-7's.

I wonder how many riders regret quitting British Speedway after the struggles they've had in Poland this season.

Hmm... remains to be seen if this will actually happen, can see a few teams who may think the likes of Holder, Lidsey & Lambert will be riding on false averages after having particularly good years while some other riders haven't even turned a wheel.

12 hours ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

Hope not, it is a blight on the sport, it has already been abused as not used what it was intended for, it will only get more abused as time goes on until it becomes the farce that British speedway is ,hate it , you ride for a team you are that team, it’s tribal and fans understand that

I know this sounds crazy now but this is Speedway we're talking about but I can imagine a time in the future where riders riding on dual passports will be doubling up for multiple countries

11 hours ago, Fromafar said:

Smarzlik and Emil are the stand out riders in Poland this year IMo.

SSmarzlik hasn't shown much away from Gorzow this year for me, he's up there in the stats, but only because he's unbeatable around his home track

[uk_martin]

12 hours ago, KingoftheTrack said:

I wonder how many riders regret quitting British Speedway after the struggles they've had in Poland this season.

Probably none of them bearing in mind that British speedway has been non-existent this year. 

If they are struggling then it highlights how far they have to go...and then that depends on the rider. Does the rider want to be big fish in a small pond or a developing fish in a wide open ocean.? 

[uk_martin]

12 hours ago, mikebv said:

Poland could do with attracting more followers of 50+ years of age..

It's a funny feeling at my age...I'm under 60, so in Britain I leave a speedway stadium feeling like the new kid on the block. Yet when I leave a Polish stadium I feel like I'm the oldest swinger in town.

[Fromafar]

41 minutes ago, iainb said:

Yes all makes perfect sense, somebody should show Emil this as he's spelling his own name incorrectly on his own website and socials and Antonio, surely if that's how they spell their name that's how they spell their name... it's like my name is actually Raymond Luxury-Yacht but pronounced Throatwobbler Mangrove 

Only 2 of the 8 rounds are at Gorzow though... he's not shown much elsewhere

Hmm... remains to be seen if this will actually happen, can see a few teams who may think the likes of Holder, Lidsey & Lambert will be riding on false averages after having particularly good years while some other riders haven't even turned a wheel.

I know this sounds crazy now but this is Speedway we're talking about but I can imagine a time in the future where riders riding on dual passports will be doubling up for multiple countries

SSmarzlik hasn't shown much away from Gorzow this year for me, he's up there in the stats, but only because he's unbeatable around his home track

Be doubtful if Lidsey,Lambert& Holder will bother with GB next year IMO given their progress in Poland.IMO.

[IainB]

1 minute ago, Fromafar said:

Be doubtful if Lidsey,Lambert& Holder will bother with GB next year IMO given their progress in Poland.IMO.

We'll see... if they don't there goes the same 1-7's as this year. If they have been given a signing on fee for the 2020 season, they may not want to pay this back and that maybe a reasonfor them to stay

[Fromafar]

1 minute ago, iainb said:

We'll see... if they don't there goes the same 1-7's as this year. If they have been given a signing on fee for the 2020 season, they may not want to pay this back and that maybe a reasonfor them to stay

Think a lot depend if things returned to normality in the sport( hard to say).Polish money might rise again which might also influence their decisions.

[IainB]

1 minute ago, Fromafar said:

Think a lot depend if things returned to normality in the sport( hard to say).Polish money might rise again which might also influence their decisions.

BSPL seem pretty confident that it'll be the same 1-7's next year though... I can see this one turning sour, we know there's no loyalty in the game