Polish Extraleague 2020

[acef]

20 minutes ago, emilali said:

You are lucky then if you get to watch BV every week as its the best track in this country by a million miles. However, for me, I prefer watching the worlds best riders riding at 110% every week in Poland not just seeing journeymen going through the motions or James Sargent breaking the tapes 4 times per meeting. Would be boring if everyone liked and wanted the same thing I suppose. 

Can I assume you didn't enjoy heat 7 from Gorzow ?

I think you have somewhat misunderstood what I have said. The general package in Poland is so much better, I absolutely don’t dispute that. As a tv experience with full crowds or being in Poland watching, which I have, it is an entirely different experience. A better one.

However that shouldn’t discredit what we have here. If you remove everything by the side and just concentrate on the actual speedway, there are tracks and certain meetings in the UK which offer entertainment to the equal. Belle Vue is an excellent track, one of the best in the world, but so is Peterborough. So is Somerset. So is Scunthorpe. So is Glasgow. Kings Lynn has great potential but is unfortunately prepared for his main money stream, stock cars. Poole is also a great shape and I have seen some brilliant speedway there, it’s just badly prepped.

Your above post is a good summary of exactly what is wrong with the British fan. This need to divide and conquer is a really sad state of affairs. It removes ones ability to enjoy something which can be good because everyone else says you can’t.

Can you assume I didn’t enjoy heat 7? Absolutely not, because it was one hell of a race and I said as much in this very thread.

Stop being so down on the positive elements of British Speedway. A large chunk is indeed a mess, but parts are still excellent and I feel for those who cannot see the wood for the trees.

Edit: Throw in Swindon as well, which is a cracking little track now. Really nice shape to it, rides like a bigger track and is well prepared. I’d have no issue riding that every week. 
 

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by acef

[acef]

3 hours ago, Mark said:

Are the numbers of track staff reduced or have to work different to normal because of Coronavirus rules ? 

Couldn’t tell you Mark. It may well have had something to do with it.

Its not normally as bad as that in Poland and I suspect no crowds was probably the bigger influencer. It was quite dusty in Gorzow being fairly warm so can understand the need to grade. That said I’ve been to roasting hot bank holiday fixtures at the NSS, mid day, where the track was just brilliant with no dust, great racing and all wrapped up in around an hour to get back down to Wolves.

[emilali]

5 minutes ago, acef said:

I think you have somewhat misunderstood what I have said. The general package in Poland is so much better, I absolutely don’t dispute that. As a tv experience with full crowds or being in Poland watching, which I have, it is an entirely different experience. A better one.

However that shouldn’t discredit what we have here. If you remove everything by the side and just concentrate on the actual speedway, there are tracks and certain meetings in the UK which offer entertainment to the equal. Belle Vue is an excellent track, one of the best in the world, but so is Peterborough. So is Somerset. So is Scunthorpe. So is Glasgow. Kings Lynn has great potential but is unfortunately prepared for his main money stream, stock cars. Poole is also a great shape and I have seen some brilliant speedway there, it’s badly prepped.

Your above post is a good summary of exactly what is wrong with the British fan. This need to divide and conquer is a really sad state of affairs. It removes ones ability to enjoy something which can be good because everyone else says you can’t.

Can you assume I didn’t enjoy heat 7? Absolutely not, because it was one hell of a race and I said as much in this very thread.

Stop being so down on the positive elements of British Speedway. A large chunk is indeed a mess, but parts are still excellent and I feel for those who cannot see the wood for the trees.
 

 

I fully understood what you said. You said 'The quality of racing and general meeting progression, well as a man who attends BV each week.....it was worse'. 

Whilst I agree the meeting from Rybnik was rubbish (alot to do with the weakness of their team) the Gorzow meeting for the first of the campaign was excellent. You"d never get to see BZ and Pawlicki going head to head like that in the UK and as I said that's what I like. 

In this country the promoters generally just take fans for mugs. Unannounced riders missing or riders that cant be bothered or just shouldnt even be riding speedway in the first place. Also, look how weak the product here is now. The elite league is just a glorified premier league these days but tracks charge £17-20 for the privilege of watching and expect fans to be grateful.

The only track I've paid to go and watch in the UK in the last 5 years has been BV which is fantastic so I do understand why you enjoy watching speedway there every week. 

[acef]

1 minute ago, emilali said:

I fully understood what you said. You said 'The quality of racing and general meeting progression, well as a man who attends BV each week.....it was worse'. 

Whilst I agree the meeting from Rybnik was rubbish (alot to do with the weakness of their team) the Gorzow meeting for the first of the campaign was excellent. You"d never get to see BZ and Pawlicki going head to head like that in the UK and as I said that's what I like. 

In this country the promoters generally just take fans for mugs. Unannounced riders missing or riders that cant be bothered or just shouldnt even be riding speedway in the first place. Also, look how weak the product here is now. The elite league is just a glorified premier league these days but tracks charge £17-20 for the privilege of watching and expect fans to be grateful.

The only track I've paid to go and watch in the UK in the last 5 years has been BV which is fantastic so I do understand why you enjoy watching speedway there every week. 

What does it matter who the people are in providing such quality entertainment?

Im not really arsed if the race is between two top polish riders or two top British riders. If the end result is excellent racing, why does that even enter your debate? It makes no sense to me.

Im well aware of what the product offers in England and I have acknowledged this. What I’m asking you to do is remove the fluff and just focus on the quality of racing. That is my argument here and you don’t seem to be doing that.

I have listed a number of UK tracks that produce good quality speedway so I can’t buy into the thought train that ‘we’d never see it here’, because we do. Clearly. I’m not interested in the who, I’m interested in the what.

The quality of the actual speedway racing really isn’t much different as I see it. Yes, there are rap tracks in the UK, not going to argue that. My point is there are also good ones.

[Col]

Think I've caught up with everything now.  Zmarzlik definitely didn't have his gating gloves on and the Leszno points accumulating machine continues sadly.  Lambert was impressive for Rybnik but they are in for a long season.

[emilali]

2 minutes ago, acef said:

What does it matter who the people are in providing such quality entertainment?

Im not really arsed if the race is between two top polish riders or two top British riders. If the end result is excellent racing, why does that even enter your debate? It makes no sense to me.

Im well aware of what the product offers in England and I have acknowledged this. What I’m asking you to do is remove the fluff and just focus on the quality of racing. That is my argument here and you don’t seem to be doing that.

I have listed a number of UK tracks that produce good quality speedway so I can’t buy into the thought train that ‘we’d never see it here’, because we do. Clearly. I’m not interested in the who, I’m interested in the what.

The quality of the actual speedway racing really isn’t much different as I see it. Yes, there are rap tracks in the UK, not going to argue that. My point is there are also good ones.

Of course it matter's who you are going to go and watch. You wouldn't pay £100 for a ticket to go and watch Kidderminster vs Ebbsfleet but you may consider paying that to watch Barcelona vs Real Madrid.

I agree that the  tracks you mentioned  do provide good racing but for me the general contempt fans are treat with here with I just wouldn't give a promoter here my money. 

[Najjer]

13 minutes ago, acef said:

What does it matter who the people are in providing such quality entertainment?

Im not really arsed if the race is between two top polish riders or two top British riders. If the end result is excellent racing, why does that even enter your debate? It makes no sense to me.

Im well aware of what the product offers in England and I have acknowledged this. What I’m asking you to do is remove the fluff and just focus on the quality of racing. That is my argument here and you don’t seem to be doing that.

I have listed a number of UK tracks that produce good quality speedway so I can’t buy into the thought train that ‘we’d never see it here’, because we do. Clearly. I’m not interested in the who, I’m interested in the what.

The quality of the actual speedway racing really isn’t much different as I see it. Yes, there are rap tracks in the UK, not going to argue that. My point is there are also good ones.

I'm with Emilali on this one - this is why National League speedway has never appealed to me. You could see 10 passes in one race but it wouldn't even scratch the surface of watching the Poles and co giving it absolute full chat on a big open race track.

[acef]

Just now, emilali said:

Of course it matter's who you are going to go and watch. You wouldn't pay £100 for a ticket to go and watch Kidderminster vs Ebbsfleet but you may consider paying that to watch Barcelona vs Real Madrid.

I agree that the  tracks you mentioned  do provide good racing but for me the general contempt fans are treat with here with I just wouldn't give a promoter here my money. 

Then, respectfully, we will never agree on this matter so I’ll leave it alone after this one.

Quite honestly you sound like a bit of a stature snob which is a real shame because it’s impacting your ability to acknowledge good speedway racing because it wasn’t delivered by a world superstar.

You are also introducing other aspects again which is not my argument. It has only ever been about the quality of racing and the human beings under the helmet.

Cheers.

 

 

 

[Mark]

56 minutes ago, Shockster said:

Great commentary that Polish version.  Didn't need to know what they were saying. 

Higher there voices reach the better the race.   They sound like fans having fun.       But they weren't as loud as normal maybe because there was no crowd to shout over.

[acef]

2 minutes ago, Najjer said:

I'm with Emilali on this one - this is why National League speedway has never appealed to me. You could see 10 passes in one race but it wouldn't even scratch the surface of watching the Poles and co giving it absolute full chat on a big open race track.

Why are you comparing our national league juniors with the quality of racing we are debating? If you want to use an example then it really needs to be a fair comparison.

If we wish to head along this road, then I wasn’t overly impressed with the 16 year old pole yesterday who was chucked and frankly a danger to himself and those who shared the track with him.

That was hardly a pole giving full chat on a big open track, was it?

If we are going to debate, then at least level the playing field as best we can.

[emilali]

Just now, acef said:

Then, respectfully, we will never agree on this matter so I’ll leave it alone after this one.

Quite honestly you sound like a bit of a stature snob which is a real shame because it’s impacting your ability to acknowledge good speedway racing because it wasn’t delivered by a world superstar.

You are also introducing other aspects again which is not my argument. It has only ever been about the quality of racing and the human beings under the helmet.

Cheers.

 

 

 

Absolutely not a stature snob what so ever. I was a regular at Speedway in this country until I felt like it was no longer any value for money.

I'm also absolutely able to acknowledge good speedway when I see it. Every Sunday and quite a few Tuesdays and whenever BV is on BT.

Cheers.

[acef]

1 minute ago, Mark said:

Higher there voices reach the better the race.   They sound like fans having fun.       But they weren't as loud as normal maybe because there was no crowd to shout over.

Imagine if that was KT and Pearson, some would be having kittens on here.

[Mark]

Just now, acef said:

Imagine if that was KT and Pearson, some would be having kittens on here.

NP and KT are good.  Only a minority dont like them but that is the way of the world.   Dissenters make noise.

[acef]

Just now, Mark said:

NP and KT are good.  Only a minority dont like them but that is the way of the world.   Dissenters make noise.

Don’t they just!

Love the pair of em.

[Dave Goddard]

Please don't turn this into yet another slag-the-commentators thread.  (Although I expect it will, because you've got to listen to me again tonight )

[acef]

1 minute ago, Dave Goddard said:

Please don't turn this into yet another slag-the-commentators thread.  (Although I expect it will, because you've got to listen to me again tonight )

You’ve done a good job Dave in difficult circumstances. You’ve been up against some serious delays with no co commentator whilst sat in your front room no doubt. I certainly don’t envy that!

Keep up the good work.

 

[emilali]

2 minutes ago, Dave Goddard said:

Please don't turn this into yet another slag-the-commentators thread.  (Although I expect it will, because you've got to listen to me again tonight )

Should have no bother giving a good commentary from Czestochowa tonight. Cracking racing track and riders in both teams not afraid to mix it. Should be a belter I can't wait.

[acef]

34 minutes ago, emilali said:

Absolutely not a stature snob what so ever. I was a regular at Speedway in this country until I felt like it was no longer any value for money.

I'm also absolutely able to acknowledge good speedway when I see it. Every Sunday and quite a few Tuesdays and whenever BV is on BT.

Cheers.

Sorry to revert my word but I just feel the need to pick this one up.

You say you can acknowledge good speedway. Based on the following I’m going to argue that you can’t:

You mention Sunday and Tuesday so I’m going to assume you are making reference to Sweden and Poland, am I right? 
 

BV. The only one in the UK you appear to be willing to accredit?

You see in my opinion, sir, that is the very definition of being unable to acknowledge because it seems to me you are deliberately ignoring the tracks I have previously raised to you, so I’m going to politely ask the following.

Do you agree that:

Swindon/Scunthorpe/Glasgow/Somerset and Peterborough produce quality racing, and if not, why not?

I don’t wish to be obtuse, I’m just really keen to understand why you would think those tracks don’t produce the excellent racing they clearly do, and if you do why you haven’t included them in your argument about ability to acknowledge.

Thanks.

Edited June 15, 2020 by acef

[emilali]

8 minutes ago, acef said:

Sorry to revert my word but I just feel the need to pick this one up.

You say you can acknowledge good speedway. Based on the following I’m going to argue that you can’t:

You mention Sunday and Tuesday so I’m going to assume you are making reference to Sweden and Poland, am I right? 
 

BV. The only one in the UK you appear to be willing to accredit?

You see in my opinion, sir, that is the very definition of being unable to acknowledge because it seems to me you are deliberately ignoring the tracks I have previously raised to you, so I’m going to politely ask the following.

Do you agree that:

Swindon/Scunthorpe/Glasgow/Somerset and Peterborough produce quality racing, and if not, why not?

I don’t wish to be obtuse, I’m just really keen to understand why you would think those tracks don’t produce the excellent racing they clearly do, and if you do why you haven’t included them in your argument about ability to acknowledge.

Thanks.

Bottom post on page 43 I stated that I agree with you that the tracks you had mentioned provide good racing. Hope this clears that up for you.

Thanks.

[acef]

7 minutes ago, emilali said:

Bottom post on page 43 I stated that I agree with you that the tracks you had mentioned provide good racing. Hope this clears that up for you.

Thanks.

Yes. I’d seen that one.

It was more to do with the post I’d quoted, where it seemed like you were going back on it somewhat, that’s why I asked.