Polish Extraleague 2020

[Fromafar]

2 hours ago, sommelier said:

I take it you have ridden a modern engine that revs to 13500 RPM! GM & Jawa build, develop engines for the modern tracks, ie Sweden Poland big smooth wide open bends. under NORMAL conditions the engines work fine. These are not 2 valve Jawa's or even 1975 Weslakes!!!

Your right he had.Wonder what the decision would have been if the Stadium had been packed with fans or a GP.Considering the rain had stopped it would have probably went ahead.Polish Promoters dont like riders who give them grief.

[sommelier]

2 minutes ago, Fromafar said:

Your right he had.Wonder what the decision would have been if the Stadium had been packed with fans or a GP.Considering the rain had stopped it would have probably went ahead.Polish Promoters dont like riders who give them grief.

Probably the same has the first GP in Warsaw, canceled, unfit track, just like last night  

[Fromafar]

2 hours ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

Rider safety comes first is a contradiction in itself ,if it came first then the sport would make riders use a more adaptable engine, the engine used today is power and nothing else, safety doesn’t even come into it ,speedway is dangerous, if you don’t like it don’t ride 

 Well said.Exactly what Rafal Dubrucki was saying in Speedway Star last week.80%power 20% skill.and being small and light.

[acef]

1 hour ago, Fromafar said:

 Well said.Exactly what Rafal Dubrucki was saying in Speedway Star last week.80%power 20% skill.and being small and light.

It’s weird isn’t it? When the bikes reved less and were lay down, it is presumed that riders had more skill yet in the next breath, the bikes were much easier to ride.

The modern rider has this stigma levelled at them by the old generation that today, there is no skill, then in the next breath acknowledge the bikes are volatile and harder to control in difficult situations.

Forgive me if I’m wrong, but in my book that is the very definition of a contradiction.

Here is how I see it. Today’s rider are BETTER than yesteryear. The bikes today are in fact even harder to manage with more power. 
 

As ever, it’s just an old generation with nothing better to do than moan and groan because things are ‘different’ now.

And you know, that is exactly the issue with the current speedway fan in this country. Never stop whinging about something, it makes them happy!

Polish crowds are better than ever-clearly the current package is working out there. Perhaps it’s time the sport in this country moved away from the current generation of fan and move into a younger, more vibrant market who won’t spend their days playing divide and conquer 

Edited June 13, 2020 by acef

[acef]

14 hours ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

With everything that’s going on in the world and it’s been a while since I’ve seen any speedway I kind of forgot how much some modern riders are prima donnas where there is a bit of rain around 

It’s funny you should call it that.

In my book, it’s called rider safety and is a very important part, wouldn’t you say!

The opinion you hold, frankly hold no water in today’s speedway. Today’s rider. Today’s bike. The whole set up. Rain causes a problem and severely impacts the safety of those taking part.

They are not prima donnas, they just want just to live until the next day ;-)

[topsoil]

22 minutes ago, acef said:

It’s weird isn’t it? When the bikes reved less and were lay down, it is presumed that riders had more skill yet in the next breath, the bikes were much easier to ride.

The modern rider has this stigma levelled at them by the old generation that today, there is no skill, then in the next breath acknowledge the bikes are volatile and harder to control in difficult situations.

Forgive me if I’m wrong, but in my book that is the very definition of a contradiction.

Here is how I see it. Today’s rider are BETTER than yesteryear. The bikes today are in fact even harder to manage with more power. 
 

As ever, it’s just an old generation with nothing better to do than moan and groan because things are ‘different’ now.

And you know, that is exactly the issue with the current speedway fan in this country. Never stop whinging about something, it makes them happy!

Polish crowds are better than ever-clearly the current package is working out there. Perhaps it’s time the sport in this country moved away from the current generation of fan and move into a younger, more vibrant market who won’t spend their days playing divide and conquer 

Spot on

[Fromafar]

41 minutes ago, acef said:

It’s weird isn’t it? When the bikes reved less and were lay down, it is presumed that riders had more skill yet in the next breath, the bikes were much easier to ride.

The modern rider has this stigma levelled at them by the old generation that today, there is no skill, then in the next breath acknowledge the bikes are volatile and harder to control in difficult situations.

Forgive me if I’m wrong, but in my book that is the very definition of a contradiction.

Here is how I see it. Today’s rider are BETTER than yesteryear. The bikes today are in fact even harder to manage with more power. 
 

As ever, it’s just an old generation with nothing better to do than moan and groan because things are ‘different’ now.

And you know, that is exactly the issue with the current speedway fan in this country. Never stop whinging about something, it makes them happy!

Polish crowds are better than ever-clearly the current package is working out there. Perhaps it’s time the sport in this country moved away from the current generation of fan and move into a younger, more vibrant market who won’t spend their days playing divide and conquer 

It’s clearly not working in UK though.As for moving away into a younger fan base it’s clearly not being able to attract them in UK.IMO.Polish Speedway is a good spectacle. IMO 

Edited June 13, 2020 by Fromafar

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

1 hour ago, acef said:

It’s weird isn’t it? When the bikes reved less and were lay down, it is presumed that riders had more skill yet in the next breath, the bikes were much easier to ride.

The modern rider has this stigma levelled at them by the old generation that today, there is no skill, then in the next breath acknowledge the bikes are volatile and harder to control in difficult situations.

Forgive me if I’m wrong, but in my book that is the very definition of a contradiction.

Here is how I see it. Today’s rider are BETTER than yesteryear. The bikes today are in fact even harder to manage with more power. 
 

As ever, it’s just an old generation with nothing better to do than moan and groan because things are ‘different’ now.

And you know, that is exactly the issue with the current speedway fan in this country. Never stop whinging about something, it makes them happy!

Polish crowds are better than ever-clearly the current package is working out there. Perhaps it’s time the sport in this country moved away from the current generation of fan and move into a younger, more vibrant market who won’t spend their days playing divide and conquer 

It is a contradiction, the modern bike is not built/tuned or whatever for safety, it is built for speed and to get the edge, even frames are made for the edge with no regard for safety, remember the incident in Toruń when someone’s experimental frame snapped causing half the bike to land in the seats, where was the thought given to safety then? fact is despite the rain yesterday the track wasn’t wet after the grading just heavier and you could hear it in pawlickis bike noise but the problem is the engine has very little scope for change meetings get called off and when that affects fans and that shouldn’t happen when it doesn’t need too, it’s a case of safety when it suits them and it isn’t case of conquer and divide as most of the technical speedway world agrees something should be done even the poles but getting it done is another matter 

Edited June 13, 2020 by THE DEAN MACHINE

[sommelier]

20 minutes ago, Fromafar said:

It’s clearly not working in UK though.As for moving away into a younger fan base it’s clearly not being able to attract them in UK.IMO.Polish Speedway is a good spectacle. IMO 

Careful, you are making far to much sense. 

[acef]

26 minutes ago, Fromafar said:

It’s clearly not working in UK though.As for moving away into a younger fan base it’s clearly not being able to attract them in UK.IMO.Polish Speedway is a good spectacle. IMO 

I’m not convinced we have really tried it to be honest. Certainly not to the extent that would be required.

[racers and royals]

Looks as if Premier Sport are mixing their scheduling for the Polish league between sport 1 channel and sport 2 channel.

Any subscribers will have to be on the ball.

[acef]

17 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

It is a contradiction, the modern bike is not built/tuned or whatever for safety, it is built for speed and to get the edge, even frames are made for the edge with no regard for safety, remember the incident in Toruń when someone’s experimental frame snapped causing half the bike to land in the seats, where was the thought given to safety then? fact is despite the rain yesterday the track wasn’t wet after the grading just heavier and you could hear it in pawlickis bike noise but the problem is the engine has very little scope for change meetings get called off and when that affects fans and that shouldn’t happen when it doesn’t need too, it’s a case of safety when it suits them and it isn’t case of conquer and divide as most of the speedway world agrees something should be done even the poles but getting it done is another matter 

It was greasy on the top but the base was dry. However there was clearly a lot of grip and Shamek was struggling with it. You could see the bike pulling. Fine to go round alone but add another 3 bikes and that wouldn’t have ended well. There were seasoned GP riders there saying exactly that.

We seem to be agreeing here Dean. I fully understand the need to recognise safety and what you have said about the current bike being built for speed essentially proves my own point. Whatever the reasons, on a track like that the need to find extra speed becomes a safety issue. It is 80% speed today my argument is that it doesn’t make the rider any less skill full or any less professional. It’s quite the contrary, the bikes are charged missiles and that needs a pretty decent motorcyclist to take care of it. All that is happening are riders adapting to a different set of circumstances.

The consequence of speed means some meetings are called off where they wouldn’t have been 15/20 years ago.

Its what it is.

[racers and royals]

We move on to tomorrow- weather forecast looks good.

Sunday June 14th Rybnik v Zielona Gora programme starts 3pm 1st race  3.30pm  N Sport and Premier Sport

Sunday June 14th Gorzow v Leszno programme starts 5.45pm 1st race  6.15pm N Sport and Premier Sport

Links

http://www.maniak.tv/mk7

http://www.drhtv.com.pl/drhtv-3.html

http://spedway.ucoz.lv/

Downloadable racecard for Rybnik match http://row.rybnik.com.pl/pliki/ROW program - 2020-07-14 falubaz - WEB.pdf    pages 10 and 11

 

Edited June 13, 2020 by racers and royals

[THE DEAN MACHINE]

21 minutes ago, acef said:

It was greasy on the top but the base was dry. However there was clearly a lot of grip and Shamek was struggling with it. You could see the bike pulling. Fine to go round alone but add another 3 bikes and that wouldn’t have ended well. There were seasoned GP riders there saying exactly that.

We seem to be agreeing here Dean. I fully understand the need to recognise safety and what you have said about the current bike being built for speed essentially proves my own point. Whatever the reasons, on a track like that the need to find extra speed becomes a safety issue. It is 80% speed today my argument is that it doesn’t make the rider any less skill full or any less professional. It’s quite the contrary, the bikes are charged missiles and that needs a pretty decent motorcyclist to take care of it. All that is happening are riders adapting to a different set of circumstances.

The consequence of speed means some meetings are called off where they wouldn’t have been 15/20 years ago.

Its what it is.

To be honest I’m not really interested in the safety side, life is dangerous deal with it but as a fan I don’t want to travel round Europe paying my hard earned money to watch meetings get called off needlessly and it has happened ,after the call off yesterday the PGE should have had an inquest into what could be learnt by calling off a basically dry but heavy track, the answer until they can control the weather has to be in the bikes but speedway never learns from its mistakes and the really sad bit is they already know the problem 

Edited June 13, 2020 by THE DEAN MACHINE

[Najjer]

1 hour ago, Fromafar said:

It’s clearly not working in UK though.As for moving away into a younger fan base it’s clearly not being able to attract them in UK.IMO.Polish Speedway is a good spectacle. IMO 

There is so much more on offer when you compare Polish speedway to British speedway - and the whole spectacle you mention is exactly right. 

Going to a big stadium with a great atmosphere would make it an enjoyable experience even for someone who wasn’t a fan. When you compare that to riders going round on a clapped out pick up truck in Britain with a track in a field and 80s music being played through tinny speakers, it’s just not anywhere near the same experience. That’s before you even get into the speedway itself on offer. 

A lot boils down to the money on offer but Poland have nailed it and is the absolute pinnacle of team speedway. British speedway now just has to do what it can to get by.

[chunky]

1 hour ago, acef said:

It was greasy on the top but the base was dry. However there was clearly a lot of grip and Shamek was struggling with it. You could see the bike pulling. Fine to go round alone but add another 3 bikes and that wouldn’t have ended well. There were seasoned GP riders there saying exactly that.

So, what are the answers?

It is an option, but generally, you don't want to go round and take off the top surface.

If it's okay for one rider, then send them out for a practice session before the meeting starts. That should produce a better surface, and even provide better racing from the start.

[RobMcCaffery]

1 hour ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

To be honest I’m not really interested in the safety side, life is dangerous deal with it but as a fan I don’t want to travel round Europe paying my hard earned money to watch meetings get called off needlessly and it has happened ,after the call off yesterday the PGE should have had an inquest into what could be learnt by calling off a basically dry but heavy track, the answer until they can control the weather has to be in the bikes but speedway never learns from its mistakes and the really sad bit is they already know the problem 

You'd think with the money they're paying out the promoters would have more control. I wonder if last night was a small rebellion against the reduced pay rates and sign-on fees? 

 

[acef]

1 hour ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said:

To be honest I’m not really interested in the safety side, life is dangerous deal with it but as a fan I don’t want to travel round Europe paying my hard earned money to watch meetings get called off needlessly and it has happened ,after the call off yesterday the PGE should have had an inquest into what could be learnt by calling off a basically dry but heavy track, the answer until they can control the weather has to be in the bikes but speedway never learns from its mistakes and the really sad bit is they already know the problem 

There is danger in every step we take, but there are also many things we can do to control that risk and decrease the likelihood of certain things happening. Not sure it’s just a case of ‘dealing with it’. If we had that attitude across many spectrums of life our society would be significantly worse for it. Not just speedway. Safety should be of paramount importance, as much as can possibly be achieved in a sport that is already dangerous. The introduction of safety fences for example was such a positive step forward. 
 

I agree the bikes are the issue. I think our arguments were crossed somewhat, my point being that riders are actually more skill full now than we have ever seen, given the cruise missiles they are piloting.

[Speedy swindon pete]

Can’t believe I’m reading posts giving riders stick for not fancying it at Częstochowa yesterday. Riders have been waiting nearly 3 months to start racing and are going to have far less meetings to make money from than they usually would in a season. It can’t come as a surprise to see them not wanting to ride on an incredibly unpredictable track on their first meeting back in anger. There were no fans in the stadium to turn away and with no other racing, easy to rearrange for a few days time where the weather and track should be better.

The performance of the bikes is a different argument and agree that things need to be done to make them better in a wider range of conditions, but we are where we are with that at the moment. 

[acef]

13 minutes ago, chunky said:

So, what are the answers?

It is an option, but generally, you don't want to go round and take off the top surface.

If it's okay for one rider, then send them out for a practice session before the meeting starts. That should produce a better surface, and even provide better racing from the start.

Answer is in the bikes. They work on dry slick surfaces, and don’t work on hard grippy ones.

The track yesterday was rideable 15 years ago. The evolution of the bikes is the bigger issue vs track prep.