highest avg rider

[steve roberts]

2 hours ago, Sidney the robin said:

I can remember those shed huts over the far side that sold memorabilia i was always spending shedloads there.

...or the shop above the pits tunnel?

[Grachan]

2 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

...or the shop above the pits tunnel?

I remember that. And a food bar in the stand at the back straight.

[lucifer sam]

21 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

I acquired issue one...are the mags likely to be monthly and what's the best source to but them from Rob?

The Curtis Sport website.  Although don't look for Issue 2 quite yet - give it a week or so.  Yeah, hopefully monthly!

Edited May 18, 2020 by lucifer sam

[Sidney the robin]

1 hour ago, steve roberts said:

...or the shop above the pits tunnel?

I never really used that shop Steve don't know why, usually headed straight over the other side.I remember watching the Carter semi final meeting in 84 coming out of bend two for the only time.

[Rob B]

Few differences with the older riders and those from last couple of decades.

Bonus points were included then and now not been for quite a few years, what year did that change?

With the older 13 heat format the top riders didn't face each other that often, seem to remember the number 1's only raced each other once in heat 1? Where as with the 15 heat format they face each other more often usually 3 times each meeting.

Gate positions, team mates could choose gate position each heat, what year did that change?

[Lefty]

10 minutes ago, Rob B said:

Few differences with the older riders and those from last couple of decades.

Bonus points were included then and now not been for quite a few years, what year did that change?

With the older 13 heat format the top riders didn't face each other that often, seem to remember the number 1's only raced each other once in heat 1? Where as with the 15 heat format they face each other more often usually 3 times each meeting.

Gate positions, team mates could choose gate position each heat, what year did that change?

Also when appropriate the #1 would have an easy tac sub ride in Ht. 8. 

[steve roberts]

2 hours ago, lucifer sam said:

The Curtis Sport website.  Although don't look for Issue 2 quite yet - give it a week or so.  Yeah, hopefully monthly!

Thanks Rob!

[steve roberts]

20 minutes ago, Rob B said:

Few differences with the older riders and those from last couple of decades.

Bonus points were included then and now not been for quite a few years, what year did that change?

With the older 13 heat format the top riders didn't face each other that often, seem to remember the number 1's only raced each other once in heat 1? Where as with the 15 heat format they face each other more often usually 3 times each meeting.

Gate positions, team mates could choose gate position each heat, what year did that change?

It has to be remembered that many Number One's (those with averages of nine and above several of which headed their particular team's average) didn't actually ride at Number One but either at Number Three or Five and therefore met an opposite Number One twice during a match. Riders who achieved averages in excess of nine plus riding at number three or five include Ashby, Lovaas, Jessup, Boulger, Wilson, Simmons, Autrey, Collins, Gundersen, Tatum, P. Crump, Jansson, Hedge , Sanders, Lee, Sigalos etc etc.

Fixed gare postions came into being during 1988 if memory serves.

[lucifer sam]

36 minutes ago, Rob B said:

Few differences with the older riders and those from last couple of decades.

Bonus points were included then and now not been for quite a few years, what year did that change?

With the older 13 heat format the top riders didn't face each other that often, seem to remember the number 1's only raced each other once in heat 1? Where as with the 15 heat format they face each other more often usually 3 times each meeting.

Gate positions, team mates could choose gate position each heat, what year did that change?

On the other hand, team strengths have fallen quite dramatically - very few of the world's best now compete in the UK.

Whereas once upon a time, a heat leader never had an easy race, because almost every World Class star competed in the UK.  For example, if you faced Oxford and you were a heat-leader, you had Nielsen, Wigg or Cox in every race. Likewise, if you faced Cradley Heath and you were a heat-leader, you had Gundersen, Pedersen or Cross in every race. I'd say that's tougher than what current riders have to face, where some teams don't even have one top rider.

Edited May 18, 2020 by lucifer sam

[steve roberts]

1 minute ago, lucifer sam said:

On the other hand, team strengths have fallen quite dramatically - very few of the world's best now compete in the UK.

Whereas once upon a time, a heat leader never had an easy race, because almost every World Class star competed in the UK.  For example, if you faced Oxford and you were a heat-leader, you had Nielsen, Wigg or Cox in every race. Likewise, if you faced Cradley Heath and you were a heat-leader, you had Gundersen, Pedersen or Cross in every race. I'd say that's tougher than what current riders have to face.

...or Leicester who had a heat leader trio of Wilson, Boulger and Jessup or Reading with Andersen, Davis and Schwartz or Eastbourne with Kennett, Moran and Preston.

[Grachan]

34 minutes ago, Lefty said:

Also when appropriate the #1 would have an easy tac sub ride in Ht. 8. 

Depends who the team manager was. I always thought that using a number one in heat 8 was a waste of a tactical considering you had 2 other heatleaders available that could possibly win that heat. You could then save the number one for later if required in a more difficult heat.

A lot of team managers never thought that way, though, and stuck the number one out in heat 8 regardless. Maybe the number ones demanded it!

[steve roberts]

5 minutes ago, Grachan said:

Depends who the team manager was. I always thought that using a number one in heat 8 was a waste of a tactical considering you had 2 other heatleaders available that could possibly win that heat. You could then save the number one for later if required in a more difficult heat.

A lot of team managers never thought that way, though, and stuck the number one out in heat 8 regardless. Maybe the number ones demanded it!

I would generally agree...and those who used a Double Tactical in heat eight.

Exeter occasionally named Ivan Mauger at Number Two at the County Ground to repel such a move!

Edited May 18, 2020 by steve roberts

[Grachan]

5 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

I would generally agree...and those who used a Double Tactical in heat eight.

Exeter occasionally named Ivan Mauger at Number Two at the County Ground to repellsuch a move!

That was in KO Cup matches I believe.

It also left him free towards the end of the meeting to be used as a TS if needed.

[Humphrey Appleby]

6 hours ago, Rob B said:

Gate positions, team mates could choose gate position each heat, what year did that change?

Fixed gate positions were introduced in the BL in 1988, although were trialled in the Knockout Cup the previous year I believe. 

I seem to recall the NL using fixed gate positions before that - maybe 1986 or even earlier.

[Humphrey Appleby]

15 hours ago, Grachan said:

Hans Nielsen is the only rider I know of to manage a perfect 12.00 league average away from home during an entire season. He dropped a few races at home, though, bless him.

It was 1986. He finished with a league average of 11.83.

From what I remember, that year there was a small league and the League Cup took up half the season. His average in that was lower so it drops below Ivan's. In league alone, though, I'm pretty sure Hans in 1986 wins it.

Yes, only 11 teams in the league that year, riding home and away once (preceded by a League Cup, also riding home and away). So that would have been a maximum of 20 matches, although Oxford were unable to ride their remaining two home matches as they ran out of time. 

It's also not really fair to compare different eras with different heat formulas and different gate selection rules. Oxford were also so dominant in 1986 that Nielsen was probably rarely used - if at all - as a tactical sub, so would have only ridden against the other No. 1s a limited number of times. 

Nevertheless, Nielsen only dropped 12 points (all at home) during that league campaign. 

[martinmauger]

6 hours ago, steve roberts said:

I would generally agree...and those who used a Double Tactical in heat eight.

Exeter occasionally named Ivan Mauger at Number Two at the County Ground to repel such a move!

They used him at no.5 at Hull in 1975 I think it was, obv before Ivan signed to lead the Vikings in 1978.  That would have been to repel the twin attack of Hull's Bobby Beaton and Mitch Graham which was an, er, exciting pairing....

[steve roberts]

7 hours ago, martinmauger said:

They used him at no.5 at Hull in 1975 I think it was, obv before Ivan signed to lead the Vikings in 1978.  That would have been to repel the twin attack of Hull's Bobby Beaton and Mitch Graham which was an, er, exciting pairing....

Ivan also rode at number four on occasions away from home so that he and Scott Autrey would ride in the last heat...often claiming a 5-1. It's one of those urban myths that the 'star' man would ride at number one (although some did insist) as it was often the contrary in many instances (as per examples given earlier) which often resulted in some meeting opposing number ones more than once during a meeting and yst still managing to achieve very healthy averages.

Edited May 19, 2020 by steve roberts

[Triple.H.]

14 hours ago, steve roberts said:

...or Leicester who had a heat leader trio of Wilson, Boulger and Jessup or Reading with Andersen, Davis and Schwartz or Eastbourne with Kennett, Moran and Preston.

Ron Preston was a rider who i thought had a big future in the sport

[lucifer sam]

11 hours ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

Yes, only 11 teams in the league that year, riding home and away once (preceded by a League Cup, also riding home and away). So that would have been a maximum of 20 matches, although Oxford were unable to ride their remaining two home matches as they ran out of time. 

It's also not really fair to compare different eras with different heat formulas and different gate selection rules. Oxford were also so dominant in 1986 that Nielsen was probably rarely used - if at all - as a tactical sub, so would have only ridden against the other No. 1s a limited number of times. 

Nevertheless, Nielsen only dropped 12 points (all at home) during that league campaign. 

Which is another reason I've always maintained Hans was even more impressive in 1987. He was riding for a struggling team, still recorded a 11.73 BL average, which would have been 11.87 but for a seized engine at Hackney in late October.

PS Two T/S rides for Nielsen for Oxford in the 1986 BL - at Cradley Heath and Reading. Oxford still won the two meetings 45-33 and 43-35.

Edited May 19, 2020 by lucifer sam

[lucifer sam]

2 hours ago, steve roberts said:

Ivan also rode at number four on occasions away from home so that he and Scott Autrey would ride in the last heat...often claiming a 5-1. It's one of those urban myths that the 'star' man would ride at number one (although some did insist) as it was often the contrary in many instances (as per examples given earlier) which often resulted in some meeting opposing number ones more than once during a meeting and yst still managing to achieve very healthy averages.

I think Erik Gundersen had a brief spell at No 1 for Cradley, but I seem to recall him being at No 3 most of the time.  Most times, he would met Hans Nielsen at least twice during the night.

PS And I think Belle Vue had Mort at No 3 and PC at No 5, so both were out in Heat 13 of meetings at Hyde Road.

Edited May 19, 2020 by lucifer sam