World Final consistency

[BL65]

Continuing the original list:
31= Peter Craven, Jack Parker, Split Waterman 1.92
34= Jimmy Nilsen, Igor Plechanov 1.90
36 Soren Sjosten 1.87
37 Anders Michanek 1.86
38 Henrik Gustafsson 1.85
39= Brian Crutcher, Bill Kitchen 1.80
41 Peter Collins 1.78
42 Kelvin Tatum 1.74
43 Phil Crump 1.73
44= Jeremy Doncaster, Dave Jessup 1.70
46 Antoni Woryna 1.68
47 Eric Langton 1.67
48= Ron Johnston, Tony Rickardsson 1.65
50 Aub Lawson 1.62

[steve roberts]

54 minutes ago, BL65 said:

Continuing the original list:
31= Peter Craven, Jack Parker, Split Waterman 1.92
34= Jimmy Nilsen, Igor Plechanov 1.90
36 Soren Sjosten 1.87
37 Anders Michanek 1.86
38 Henrik Gustafsson 1.85
39= Brian Crutcher, Bill Kitchen 1.80
41 Peter Collins 1.78
42 Kelvin Tatum 1.74
43 Phil Crump 1.73
44= Jeremy Doncaster, Dave Jessup 1.70
46 Antoni Woryna 1.68
47 Eric Langton 1.67
48= Ron Johnston, Tony Rickardsson 1.65
50 Aub Lawson 1.62

Interesting to see Anders Michanek down at 37...his best efforts in 1974 & 75 and altough one of the favourites in 1973 he never got going after a first race tape exclusion if I recall?

[chunky]

On 5/7/2020 at 2:55 AM, Sidney the robin said:

1) That comfort zone of knowing you only  have to get to a semi and can still win the meeting for me makes it easier now though.

2) Do i think the series as being  particularly strong now yes it is strong but there are a few riders there on the way down and at the moment are not being replaced by fresh blood.

1) But if it is easier for one rider, it easier for everyone. It is the equivalent of 11 riders qualifying from the I-C Final, and the top riders struggled there too at times.

2) That may be true, but just because a rider is past his peak, it doesn't mean that he doesn't deserve to be there, and it doesn't mean that they are worse than younger riders who aren't there.

If you trying to have a true world championship, then fresh blood doesn't matter; the goal is to have the BEST riders on the world. Again, it was no different in the old days. Olsen, Davis, Michanek, and even Collins were well past their peak, and were still qualifying for world finals. If they are still good enough, then good luck to them...

[BWitcher]

On 5/7/2020 at 7:55 AM, Sidney the robin said:

That comfort zone of knowing you only  have to get to a semi and can still win the meeting for me makes it easier now though.Do i think the series as being  particularly strong now yes it is strong but there are a few riders there on the way down and at the moment are not being replaced by fresh blood.

Sorry Sid, that doesn't really make sense.

In the old World Final you often had five riders who were totally out of their depth.

After a couple of rides you had as much as half the field out of contention.

In a GP it's far from easier, firstly because of the reason you have used to suggest its easier to score, the semi finals...  it means much more of the field has something to race for..

And even without the semi-finals, every single pt in every single race counts towards their overall season end standing. There's no slacking of or just dialing it in as it all counts.

[Sidney the robin]

8 minutes ago, chunky said:

1) But if it is easier for one rider, it easier for everyone. It is the equivalent of 11 riders qualifying from the I-C Final, and the top riders struggled there too at times.

2) That may be true, but just because a rider is past his peak, it doesn't mean that he doesn't deserve to be there, and it doesn't mean that they are worse than younger riders who aren't there.

If you trying to have a true world championship, then fresh blood doesn't matter; the goal is to have the BEST riders on the world. Again, it was no different in the old days. Olsen, Davis, Michanek, and even Collins were well past their peak, and were still qualifying for world finals. If they are still good enough, then good luck to them...

Look me and you have always seemed to have a prickley relationship .dont know why we seem to agree most of the time,

.. But we clash now and again but believe it or not i do really respect what you say and hopefully we can call a truce.

 

 

 

 in 

[chunky]

3 minutes ago, BWitcher said:

Sorry Sid, that doesn't really make sense.

In the old World Final you often had five riders who were totally out of their depth.

After a couple of rides you had as much as half the field out of contention.

In a GP it's far from easier, firstly because of the reason you have used to suggest its easier to score, the semi finals...  it means much more of the field has something to race for..

And even without the semi-finals, every single pt in every single race counts towards their overall season end standing. There's no slacking of or just dialing it in as it all counts.

Riders all had different qualifying systems, and it was possible to scrape through a couple of meetings, put in one good night, and you were World Champ! Now, you have to perform over a whole season.

[iris123]

4 minutes ago, chunky said:

Riders all had different qualifying systems, and it was possible to scrape through a couple of meetings, put in one good night, and you were World Champ! Now, you have to perform over a whole season.

Think that is one thing that those who look back with fondness don't see. The way the system was unfair on some, giving them tough meetings and gave others a fairly easy route through.Ok you get a few wildcards now, but they are generally people who deserve it....

[chunky]

1 minute ago, Sidney the robin said:

Look me and you have always seemed to have a prickley relationship .dont know why we seem to agree most of the time,

.. But we clash now and again but believe it or not i do really respect what you say and hopefully we can call a truce.

 

 

 

 in 

It's got nothing to do anything except having different opinions, and as such, there is no need for a "truce". As long as you don't get rude and aggressive, and you can stop making false accusations, there should no problems.

You just have to accept that I am allowed to have opinions that differ from yours, and that I base them on logic, reason, and fact, rather than personal bias.

[chunky]

10 minutes ago, iris123 said:

Think that is one thing that those who look back with fondness don't see. The way the system was unfair on some, giving them tough meetings and gave others a fairly easy route through.Ok you get a few wildcards now, but they are generally people who deserve it....

Yeah, some World Champions won the title after one or two meetings, whereas others had to ride in three or four times that. Now, everybody starts out on an equal footing.

Edited May 8, 2020 by chunky

[Sidney the robin]

32 minutes ago, chunky said:

It's got nothing to do anything except having different opinions, and as such, there is no need for a "truce". As long as you don't get rude and aggressive, and you can stop making false accusations, there should no problems.

You just have to accept that I am allowed to have opinions that differ from yours, and that I base them on logic, reason, and fact, rather than personal bias.

 

33 minutes ago, chunky said:

It's got nothing to do anything except having different opinions, and as such, there is no need for a "truce". As long as you don't get rude and aggressive, and you can stop making false accusations, there should no problems.

You just have to accept that I am allowed to have opinions that differ from yours, and that I base them on logic, reason, and fact, rather than personal bias.

You also need to look in the mirror and be HONEST wth yourself Chunky. Logic and Fact really so sorry Chunky don't see you have displayed that much in your  recent post's. Tried to be adult with you call a truce try to move on with you but you are not interested your call I suppose.

[Sidney the robin]

1 hour ago, BWitcher said:

Sorry Sid, that doesn't really make sense.

In the old World Final you often had five riders who were totally out of their depth.

After a couple of rides you had as much as half the field out of contention.

In a GP it's far from easier, firstly because of the reason you have used to suggest its easier to score, the semi finals...  it means much more of the field has something to race for..

And even without the semi-finals, every single pt in every single race counts towards their overall season end standing. There's no slacking of or just dialing it in as it all counts.

Even now Witcher at least six riders have no chance of winning a final,,and that is being honest.No different to being in the old format really.

[chunky]

1 minute ago, Sidney the robin said:

 

You also need to look in the mirror and be HONEST wth yourself Chunky. Logic and Fact really so sorry Chunky don't see you have displayed that much in your  recent post's. Tried to be adult with you call a truce try to move on with you but you are not interested your call I suppose.

Please read - and try to understand - what I write! There is no need for a truce, because we are not at war. You are just offended by every post I make that offers an opinion that differs from yours, and you get insulting.

Virtually every post I make on here is based on logic, reason, and fact, from Woffinden vs Lee, to Jansson not being one of the top five or six riders in the world at the time of his death.

You need to accept that your opinion is NOT  gospel, and you are not being an adult by calling me a Muppet, and accusing me of saying things that I didn't.

[BWitcher]

5 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

Even now Witcher at least six riders have no chance of winning a final,,and that is being honest.No different to being in the old format really.

Again Sid, that is completely false. You're so far out with that statement it's staggering.

Out of last year's starting field the ONLY one you could possibly put an argument together for would be Lambert.

It is completely different to the old format for the reasons I described to you. Every race means something to every rider.. the only exceptions might come in the final round or two of the season when for some it would be like... you guessed it, an old style World Final they can't win.

Edited May 8, 2020 by BWitcher

[Sidney the robin]

Just now, chunky said:

Please read - and try to understand - what I write! There is no need for a truce, because we are not at war. You are just offended by every post I make that offers an opinion that differs from yours, and you get insulting.

Virtually every post I make on here is based on logic, reason, and fact, from Woffinden vs Lee, to Jansson not being one of the top five or six riders in the world at the time of his death.

You need to accept that your opinion is NOT  gospel, and you are not being an adult by calling me a Muppet, and accusing me of saying things that I didn't.

Don't CRY , logic fact you don't  seem to  grasp it do you. Chunky poor chap..Look you never seem to read the posts do you.????  i have tried my best with you humoured you try to be ok with you but you feel you are superior which is a real shame.

 

[Sidney the robin]

4 minutes ago, BWitcher said:

Again Sid, that is completely false. You're so far out with that statement it's staggering.

Out of last year's starting field the ONLY one you could possibly put an argument together for would be Lambert.

It is completely different to the old format for the reasons I described to you. Every race means something to every rider.. the only exceptions might come in the final round or two of the season when for some it would be like... you guessed it, an old style World Final they can't win.

Really thought Lambert reached an early semi.? 

[chunky]

6 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

Even now Witcher at least six riders have no chance of winning a final,,and that is being honest.No different to being in the old format really.

It is different, because the old system was never intended to get best riders in the world to the world final, and it was never close to doing that. The GP system IS designed to include the best riders in the world, and you have - at the very least - 13 of the best 15.

[chunky]

2 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

Don't CRY , logic fact you don't  seem to  grasp it do you. Chunky poor chap..Look you never seem to read the posts do you.????  i have tried my best with you humoured you try to be ok with you but you feel you are superior which is a real shame.

 

Who's crying? What a bizarre statement to make... 

[Sidney the robin]

Just now, chunky said:

It is different, because the old system was never intended to get best riders in the world to the world final, and it was never close to doing that. The GP system IS designed to include the best riders in the world, and you have - at the very least - 13 of the best 15.

Give me your address and i will send you some tissues, pathetic yet you have the nerve to give Gustix crap,.

[chunky]

2 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

Really thought Lambert reached an early semi.? 

And??? You were talking about riders being world champion, and now you are talking about an individual semi-final! EVERY rider in the GP is MORE than capable of making semi-finals.

[BWitcher]

4 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

Really thought Lambert reached an early semi.? 

He did, but that's the only one that comes close to your statement of not having a chance of winning a final. The fact you disagree with him speaks volumes!

I challenge you to name one other, never mind the six you claimed