Five riders that you felt were underrated.

[steve roberts]

9 minutes ago, iris123 said:

So John Berry thinks he was over rated rather than. under rated ? And I think he was rated where he belonged. Opinions eh

To be fair to John Berry he didn't actually refer to the terms "over" or "under" rated just an assessment based upon his personal opinion and/or observations. We've all got our personal views and opinions based upon watching riders as this particular thread is demonstrating and is of particular interest in my view.

[Sidney the robin]

15 minutes ago, Terry said:

..And poor old Martin Ashby discovering that he was on a few grand less than the others!

He won your meeting Terry the Superama one year Martin, i loved Hackney as a track looking back though it was dangerous with all those posts.Thommo looking  back over the years took some chances there and he has to go down as one of the best in/ out racers i have ever seen great from the back lovely chap as well.

Edited May 3, 2020 by Sidney the robin

[steve roberts]

11 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

Such an interesting point NW,i  felt as examples Jessup, Kennett, Davis were never  really great at Hyde Rd even Hans in his early days was vulnerable at Hyde Rd.Hans later disproved that he ended up being awesome there  have to say Carter, Gundersen are probably the best riders  i have ever seen there just behind a PEAK Collins funny how the northern fans viewed some of the Southern softees.

...or indeed English Team Managers during the seventies and eighties. Whether it was Len Silver, John Berry, Eric Boocock or Ian Thomas the make-up of English teams did, on occasions, show some bias between Northern and Southern based riders.

[iris123]

8 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

His opinion holds up very well for me Iris a man who i had great respect for Berry or Chapman ??? no comparison eh!!! John was a legend in my eyes a chance was lost when we didn't let him revamp speedway in the uk and nothing has really changed since.

Must hold my hands up and say I had very little interest in the people running the sport in those days, unlike yourself and Steve, it seems. Littlechild, Ochiltree, Berry etc

I did. think Silver was a good showman, but I saw him a lot more and in comparison I thought Maido was poor. But purely on the surface. I have no idea what Cyril was like behind closed doors

[nw42]

3 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

Such an interesting point NW,i  felt as examples Jessup, Kennett, Davis were never  really great at Hyde Rd even Hans in his early days was vulnerable at Hyde Rd.Hans later disproved that he ended up being awesome there  have to say Carter, Gundersen are probably the best riders  i have ever seen there just behind a PEAK Collins funny how the northern fans viewed some of the Southern softees.

I suppose we form these views and they stick with us, Kennett I always saw as a dirty rider, couldn't pin it down to a particular incident, just became the way I viewed him.  If I think about Jessup I think of engine failure,  Davis was a nancy boy,  Carter, although he was the enemy I was always pleased if he was representing the national team, a bit like I viewed Bryan Robson when he played for England (I'm a Mancunian blue). 

Gundersen was always good value, Nielsen less so, although as you say he did master it eventually.

John Louis could get round Hyde Rd well, can't remember Wiggy ever doing much.   Arnie Haley was a regular guest rider for the Aces, so he must have enjoyed racing there.

[Terry]

7 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

He won your meeting Terry the Superama one year Martin, i loved Hackney as a track looking back though it was dangerous with all those posts.Thommo looking  back over the years took some chances there and he has to go down as one of the best in/ out racers i have ever seen great from the back lovely chap as well.

I'd say 99% of Hackney fans would have Thommo as their favourite Hawk. He had a totally unique riding style, almost as if he was fighting his machine!

Zenon Plech was another huge favourite of mine. I remember as a young lad screaming at the tv during the 79 world final for him to pass Kelly Moran, but Kelly rode a blinder and blocked his every move..ahh well.

 

[steve roberts]

15 minutes ago, nw42 said:

I suppose we form these views and they stick with us, Kennett I always saw as a dirty rider, couldn't pin it down to a particular incident, just became the way I viewed him.  If I think about Jessup I think of engine failure,  Davis was a nancy boy,  Carter, although he was the enemy I was always pleased if he was representing the national team, a bit like I viewed Bryan Robson when he played for England (I'm a Mancunian blue). 

Gundersen was always good value, Nielsen less so, although as you say he did master it eventually.

John Louis could get round Hyde Rd well, can't remember Wiggy ever doing much.   Arnie Haley was a regular guest rider for the Aces, so he must have enjoyed racing there.

That's an interesting observation? I saw lots of Gordon at Eastbourne, Oxford and White City (as well as on many other tracks) and he was a tough competitor but dirty I'm not so sure...although he and Steve Gresham had some "interesting" encounters but so did many with Gresham!

[Sidney the robin]

27 minutes ago, iris123 said:

Must hold my hands up and say I had very little interest in the people running the sport in those days, unlike yourself and Steve, it seems. Littlechild, Ochiltree, Berry etc

I did. think Silver was a good showman, but I saw him a lot more and in comparison I thought Maido was poor. But purely on the surface. I have no idea what Cyril was like behind closed doors

Silver for me is a guy who i have total respect for how long has he been around donkeys years.?? Met him last year at Swindon for the youth meeting got him to sign a picture for me what a nice chap he was the enthusiasm still oozing out of him. My trips to Hackney speedway were great days don't think i ever see Swindon win there .?Iris you being a regular visitor to Plough Lane must of been special? it was to me i loved the stadium the history of it was special can always remember the pits being smokey there.

Edited May 3, 2020 by Sidney the robin

[Sidney the robin]

27 minutes ago, nw42 said:

I suppose we form these views and they stick with us, Kennett I always saw as a dirty rider, couldn't pin it down to a particular incident, just became the way I viewed him.  If I think about Jessup I think of engine failure,  Davis was a nancy boy,  Carter, although he was the enemy I was always pleased if he was representing the national team, a bit like I viewed Bryan Robson when he played for England (I'm a Mancunian blue). 

Gundersen was always good value, Nielsen less so, although as you say he did master it eventually.

John Louis could get round Hyde Rd well, can't remember Wiggy ever doing much.   Arnie Haley was a regular guest rider for the Aces, so he must have enjoyed racing there.

One thing that i found strange NW  was when  Briggo  made a statement saying  that  Hyde Rd was not one of his favourite tracks amazing really .Did you ever see him there at his peak 6 BLRC wins??

Edited May 3, 2020 by Sidney the robin

[Sidney the robin]

5 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

That's an interesting observation? I saw lots of Gordon at Eastbourne, Oxford and White City (as well as on many other tracks) and he was a tough competitor but dirty I'm not so sure...although he and Steve Gresham had some "interesting" encounters but so did many with Gresham!

Kennett for me along with Crump senior was one of the strongest and fittest riders i ever saw ride he could force his way through on the line.See a picture of him the other year and he still looks fit and healthy would of loved to see him move to the Abbey terrific value there always seemed like a quiet guy.

[steve roberts]

3 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

One thing that i found strange NW  was Briggo  said that  Hyde Rd was not one of his favourite tracks an amazing statement.Did you ever see him there at his peak 6 BLRC wins??

It was a favourite of Martin Ashby...another southern "softie"!

[iris123]

8 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

Silver for me is a guy who i have total respect for how long has he been around donkeys years.?? Met him last year at Swindon for the youth meeting got him to sign a picture for me what a nice chap he was the enthusiasm still oozing out of him. My trips to Hackney speedway were great days don't think i ever see Swindon win there ever..?Iris you being a regular visitor to Plough Lane must of been special? it was to me i loved the stadium the history of it was special can always remember the pits being smokey there.

The place was great for the big meetings, even the late 60s early 70s, I really enjoyed the normal meetings. But those big ones like the Internationale or BL 2 rider s championship I thought were amazing for atmosphere. I also enjoyed those first few years when we went down a league, funnily enough. Thought the team was a great mix with Ferreira, Johns and Jamie Luckhurst. Wasn't so keen on Mike Bennett for some reason. Thought he came across as a fake local DJ sort of guy. But that is my opinion. On the other hand, like you say I have great respect with how Len ran Hackney

Edited May 3, 2020 by iris123

[Sidney the robin]

2 minutes ago, iris123 said:

The place was great for the big meetings, even the late 60s early 70s, I really enjoyed the normal meetings. But those big ones like the Internationale or BL 2 rider s championship I thought were amazing for atmosphere. I also enjoyed those first few years when we went down a league, funnily enough. Thought the team was a great mix with Ferreira, Johns and Jamie Luckhurst. Wasn't so keen on Mike Bennett for some reason. Thought he came across as a fake local DJ sort of guy. But that is my opinion. On the other hand, like you say I have great respect with how Len ran Hackney

You see Bast practice there Iris?? what was your opinion of him.?

[steve roberts]

1 minute ago, iris123 said:

The place was great for the big meetings, even the late 60s early 70s, I really enjoyed the normal meetings. But those big ones like the Internationale or BL 2 rider s championship I thought were amazing for atmosphere. I also enjoyed those first few years when we went down a league, funnily enough. Thought the team was a great mix with Ferreira, Johns and Jamie Luckhurst. Wasn't so keen on Mike Bennett for some reason. Thought he came across as a fake local DJ sort of guy. But that is my opinion. On the other hand, like you say I have great respect with how Len ran Hackney

I also liked visits to Plough Lane...the stadium just oozed atmosphere. Mike Bennett never lasted at Cowley and he has bitter memories of his time spent there.

[iris123]

2 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

You see Bast practice there Iris?? what was your opinion of him.?

Difficult to make any personal opinion from a practice and then a meeting which I saw at White City. But his record in the States is impressive and he could have made an impact I think if he stuck at it in Europe. But the mentality was wrong or he was having the life he wanted in California, which you can't fault him for that

[Sidney the robin]

8 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

It was a favourite of Martin Ashby...another southern "softie"!

He certainly was with Ray/John Louis in the 1975 British Final that was one of my biggest disappointments in speedway .Reserve  for the special night i remember  supporting Ray and Tommy Jansson on the night though willy was one of my  alltime favourites.

[Sidney the robin]

2 minutes ago, iris123 said:

Difficult to make any personal opinion from a practice and then a meeting which I saw at White City. But his record in the States is impressive and he could have made an impact I think if he stuck at it in Europe. But the mentality was wrong or he was having the life he wanted in California, which you can't fault him for that

Was so disappointed with our authorities Iris they never helped Mike in his quest to get some track time in.For me if he had of rode for Wimbledon he would of been good around there.It would of been so interesting to see if he could of mastered the big tracks.

[nw42]

13 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

One thing that i found strange NW  was when  Briggo  made a statement saying  that  Hyde Rd was not one of his favourite tracks amazing really .Did you ever see him there at his peak 6 BLRC wins??

Yes Sid, probably saw them all, he just seemed to have a hold over that title, won it in both wet and dry conditions. Can't recall specifics but I'm sure I saw him have stinkers in league matches there, although they were probably in the twilight of his career.

BLRC was such an occasion, all the coaches from every single track, even 2nd division clubs were represented,  I think the capacity was 25,000 and you couldn't move in the place, we always had seats on the entrance to the pit bend but one year my dad forgot to get seats and we stood on the steps in same area, I didn't get to see as much of that meeting but the atmosphere was enthralling.

[Sidney the robin]

Just now, nw42 said:

Yes Sid, probably saw them all, he just seemed to have a hold over that title, won it in both wet and dry conditions. Can't recall specifics but I'm sure I saw him have stinkers in league matches there, although they were probably in the twilight of his career.

BLRC was such an occasion, all the coaches from every single track, even 2nd division clubs were represented,  I think the capacity was 25,000 and you couldn't move in the place, we always had seats on the entrance to the pit bend but one year my dad forgot to get seats and we stood on the steps in same area, I didn't get to see as much of that meeting but the atmosphere was enthralling.

The 1983 BLRC was a terrific memory for me Gundersen, Nielsen, Lee at there best Lee having a duck egg first time out( got filled in) then was on fire afterwards.Lee always seemed to have a patchy record at Hyde Rd i don't know why he was the same at Halifax but when on it Mike could be awesome at the Shay.

[nw42]

5 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

The 1983 BLRC was a terrific memory for me Gundersen, Nielsen, Lee at there best Lee having a duck egg first time out( got filled in) then was on fire afterwards.Lee always seemed to have a patchy record at Hyde Rd i don't know why he was the same at Halifax but when on it Mike could be awesome at the Shay.

Southern softiness Sid   Seriously though you are right, he could be so good at Hyde Rd but you just never knew which Michael was going to turn up,  I was always excited when he was coming to town though, just lived in hope that he would be in the mood.  Michael was probably the most exciting visitor to Hyde Rd when on song, could generate so much speed off the bends.  Although as you said, Gundersen was a sight to behold on that track.

Edited May 3, 2020 by nw42