Five riders that you felt were underrated.

[norbold]

On 5/4/2020 at 5:19 PM, customhouseregular said:

Stan Stevens, Tony Clarke, Brian Leonard, Ted Ede, Tyburn Gallows.

Or possibly Jimmy Gooch, Leo McAuliffe, Eric Williams, Derek Timms and Reg Luckhurst.

[Split]

16 hours ago, norbold said:

Or possibly Jimmy Gooch, Leo McAuliffe, Eric Williams, Derek Timms and Reg Luckhurst.

Maybe replace Derek Timms with Doug Davies to make five world finalists. I can't think what on earth the five riders would otherwise have in common  

[Guest]

21 hours ago, norbold said:

Or possibly Jimmy Gooch, Leo McAuliffe, Eric Williams, Derek Timms and Reg Luckhurst.

It's nice to see Derek Timms. Years ago - mid 1950s - he had been in retirement for a couple of seasons. I was working in the editorial department at Speedway Star. I was passing the desk of the subscriptions clerk and being nosey looked at them. One was from Derek Timms. I took his address and wrote asking if he was interested in a speedway comeback. He replied that he was and as a result resumed his career at Aldershot. I found him to be a really pleasant  person. And he made a successful speedway comeback as well.

Edited May 6, 2020 by Guest

[MassMarauder]

When I was going to Lynn in the mid-70's I looked forward to seeing Doug Wyer, Jim McMillan, Finn Thomsen, Eric Broadbelt and Dave Morton come to town.  Not the superstars of the era but solid #1's who always (seemed) to be giving it all.  Sometimes their teams would spring a surprise but mostly they were on losing teams,  Most of them nearly always got open bookings for the Littlechild, Dow Trophy or Pride of The East, so clearly they were liked and trusted to entertain.  I must have Jimmy Mac's autograph on so many Lynn home programmes....

[Terry]

I always felt that Andy Smith was underrated. Ok he never did much in the gp's but he always used to qualify through the challenge, ahead of such riders as Ermolenko and Crump. He never had to rely on any wild cards.

3 consecutive British Championships-when it was still a strong line-up-confirms his quality.

I remember Tony Rickardsson saying something along the lines of "I don't care if I'm racing Jason Crump or Andy Smith, I still want to beat them." Which I thought was a bit disrespectful.

 

 

 

[waiheke1]

1 hour ago, Terry said:

I always felt that Andy Smith was underrated. Ok he never did much in the gp's but he always used to qualify through the challenge, ahead of such riders as Ermolenko and Crump. He never had to rely on any wild cards.

3 consecutive British Championships-when it was still a strong line-up-confirms his quality.

I remember Tony Rickardsson saying something along the lines of "I don't care if I'm racing Jason Crump or Andy Smith, I still want to beat them." Which I thought was a bit disrespectful.

 

 

 

Agree. A young Andy Smith was arguably the most exciting sight in the sport at the time. Injuries hampered his progress,  though 10 points on world final debut highlighted his potential.  overtime arguably improved his gating but became less exciting to watch, but his gating remained short of what was needed to become world class rather than international class. 

One of my 5 favourite riders of all time.

 

[chunky]

7 minutes ago, waiheke1 said:

Agree. A young Andy Smith was arguably the most exciting sight in the sport at the time. Injuries hampered his progress,  though 10 points on world final debut highlighted his potential.  overtime arguably improved his gating but became less exciting to watch, but his gating remained short of what was needed to become world class rather than international class. 

One of my 5 favourite riders of all time.

 

I remember the first time I saw Andy. I drove over to Hackney on a cold and miserable winter's day to watch the Hawks take on the Aces in a junior match. He was 16... Seems like a lifetime ago!

[Terry]

3 minutes ago, waiheke1 said:

Agree. A young Andy Smith was arguably the most exciting sight in the sport at the time. Injuries hampered his progress,  though 10 points on world final debut highlighted his potential.  overtime arguably improved his gating but became less exciting to watch, but his gating remained short of what was needed to become world class rather than international class. 

One of my 5 favourite riders of all time.

 

Yeah Andy scored 10 points in both his world finals. I always think of Andy and Chris Harris as similar riders. Great to watch but could have achieved much more.

[waiheke1]

10 minutes ago, Terry said:

Yeah Andy scored 10 points in both his world finals. I always think of Andy and Chris Harris as similar riders. Great to watch but could have achieved much more.

If you can't gate, you won't be regularly competitive at the top top level, unless you are a once in a generation talent like Gollob or Peter Collins. 

[iris123]

I do remember one meeting in Güstrow, a relatively small track. Andy was held up, so they delayed the meeting. He got changed in the motor on the way and when he did arrive and the meeting got under way he was the highlight. Great passing skills and a nice guy, loved by the crowd in Germany

[iris123]

Which sort of brings me to another rider. The one U21 final I attended at Canterbury was when Havelock won with Andy Silver 2nd and Darren Sumner 3rd. He then went on to win the year after , but didn’t really fulfill the early promise and got out of the sport relatively quickly. But it was a great period for England with Loram and Smudger etc

[chunky]

4 hours ago, iris123 said:

Which sort of brings me to another rider. The one U21 final I attended at Canterbury was when Havelock won with Andy Silver 2nd and Darren Sumner 3rd. He then went on to win the year after , but didn’t really fulfill the early promise and got out of the sport relatively quickly. But it was a great period for England with Loram and Smudger etc

I love how people have always gone on about the need for opportunities and events for youngsters, and how important they are for the production of the future British superstar. The British Junior Championship was a prime example. There were some incredibly talented - kids that competed there. However, how many of them actually went on to have a reasonably long, and genuinely successful (at the top level) career? Very few...

I'm not sure why, but generally (certainly in the UK), youth and Under-21 events don't seem to provide the quality of competitors that they should (and certainly not the quantity), and that applies to most sports.

As far as speedway, most of the riders who rode in the Under-21 went on to have some kind of career, but so many of them never got past NL level, or perhaps a BL second-string level. In darts, I know it is exactly the same; most of the really good youngsters never went on to a top-level career. Same with football. The truly promising youth players usually don't develop into the top senior players they should.

I don't really understand why...

[BWitcher]

6 minutes ago, chunky said:

I love how people have always gone on about the need for opportunities and events for youngsters, and how important they are for the production of the future British superstar. The British Junior Championship was a prime example. There were some incredibly talented - kids that competed there. However, how many of them actually went on to have a reasonably long, and genuinely successful (at the top level) career? Very few...

I'm not sure why, but generally (certainly in the UK), youth and Under-21 events don't seem to provide the quality of competitors that they should (and certainly not the quantity), and that applies to most sports.

As far as speedway, most of the riders who rode in the Under-21 went on to have some kind of career, but so many of them never got past NL level, or perhaps a BL second-string level. In darts, I know it is exactly the same; most of the really good youngsters never went on to a top-level career. Same with football. The truly promising youth players usually don't develop into the top senior players they should.

I don't really understand why...

Are Brits more prone to the tiniest bit of fame and fortune going to their heads?

And I mean the tiniest bit...

A bit of adulation from a few girls and some new hanger on mates can soon lead you in the wrong direction. 

[iris123]

Yes. Just a day or so ago saw a report on Mario Götze scorer of the World Cup winning goal, which of course means he can’t be classed as a failure. But how he went from a wonder kid to a player who at I think 27 nobody seems to want after years of underachieving 

One or two classic examples though were the young kid who was training with Ajax and another I remember was Cherno Samba at Millwall, who Liverpool offered a million pounds for before he even played for the first team. A wonder kid, who never made it

[chunky]

2 minutes ago, BWitcher said:

Are Brits more prone to the tiniest bit of fame and fortune going to their heads?

And I mean the tiniest bit...

A bit of adulation from a few girls and some new hanger on mates can soon lead you in the wrong direction. 

From a darts point of view, I can tell you that it is often the mixture of ego, alcohol, and p*ssy that does it!

[sommelier]

Me personally I Would have to put Lewis Bridger in this group, such a natural talent, especially 2005 at Weymouth   

[Bagpuss]

7 minutes ago, sommelier said:

Me personally I Would have to put Lewis Bridger in this group, such a natural talent, especially 2005 at Weymouth   

Agree with this, quite possibly the biggest waste of ability / most unfulfilled potential in rider throughout my forty odd years of watching speedway. Remember seeing him at sixteen at Lynn in the British U21 final and being really impressed, I reckon that night I saw more trackcraft and nouse from him than either Darcy Ward or Robert Lambert at the same age. Such a shame he never kicked on, should have been a top rider with the natural ability he had.

Edited May 11, 2020 by Bagpuss

[iris123]

On the under achiever rather than under rated I’d say Arthur Sissis is one for me. When he first came over to Denmark for the world youth championship he was a sensation. Hardy sat on a 80cc bike before and really gave the Danes a run for their money. Finishing just behind Mikkel Michelsen and Mikkel B Jensen and in front of Jepsen Jensen !!! Then he went to Road Racing , but came back to speedway and never really got going. Seems he has since got back into Road Racing

Edited May 11, 2020 by iris123

[arnieg]

17 hours ago, chunky said:

From a darts point of view, I can tell you that it is often the mixture of ego, alcohol, and p*ssy that does it!

None of which are unique to Britain

[sommelier]

3 hours ago, Bagpuss said:

Agree with this, quite possibly the biggest waste of ability / most unfulfilled potential in rider throughout my forty odd years of watching speedway. Remember seeing him at sixteen at Lynn in the British U21 final and being really impressed, I reckon that night I saw more trackcraft and nouse from him than either Darcy Ward or Robert Lambert at the same age. Such a shame he never kicked on, should have been a top rider with the natural ability he had.

talking of 16 year olds, will the EVER be a rider as good has Lee at that age. I think not