British Speedway to be reborn?

[steve roberts]

11 minutes ago, Hacksaw Jim Duggan said:

This video suggests you are talking absolute bollocks - date, a Friday night - there is next to no one there.

 

 

Great race however!

[Hacksaw Jim Duggan]

Just now, steve roberts said:

Great race however!

But as the crowd validates, very few people actually care. 

[steve roberts]

Just now, Hacksaw Jim Duggan said:

But as the crowd validates, very few people actually care. 

...which is the conundrum facing the sport.

[mikebv]

15 minutes ago, Hacksaw Jim Duggan said:

This video suggests you are talking absolute bollocks - date, a Friday night - there is next to no one thereto simply go out and see the Aces race no matter the rider in the jacket. 

 

 

It's a Colts meeting though, not a Championship level one which I believe the Aces could run well on a Saturday night..

And having been to many Colts meetings they do get crowds of around 400 to 500 I would say, so not too shabby..

Obviously the back straight isn't used..

Good to see you on here though Oscar Wilde...

Edited April 22, 2020 by mikebv

[Stoke Potter]

To those claiming it will be fixed by bringing the best riders back, I recall an article in the Speedway Star a few season's back discussing which riders draw the crowds.  It was stated that even Tai Woffinden (who may have even been World Champ at the time) would do little to increase numbers and the only rider who made any difference was Nicki Pedersen.

In terms of rider quality, I feel these is a cut-off point, you don't need the absolute best in the world but they do have to be quite a high standard to entertain the crowd.  NL/Div3 racing does very little for me for example.

And to those dissing the idea of the tracks being the problem and stating they are like that by necessity, yes that's exactly the problem, tracks shoe-horned into dog stadia are, for the most part, fundamentally flawed!  The tracks are compromised.  Solve that problem. 
Greyhound racing must be one of the few sports with a darker future than Speedway, relying on them for facilities is another, not so minor, flaw in the plan...

[Hacksaw Jim Duggan]

4 minutes ago, mikebv said:

It's a Colts meeting though, not a Championship level one which I believe the Aces could run well on a Saturday night..

And having been to many Colts meetings they do get crowds of around 400 to 500 I would say, so not too shabby..

Obviously the back straight isn't used..

Good to see you on here though Oscar Wilde...

It is still relevant to the general point which is - people will turn up regardless of who is on show, yes they will, just not many, or for that matter even close to as many.

As an addition re what you are saying, if it was a truism the promotion would be best served not bothering their time with the Premiership and simply going Championship.... same crowds, less costs etc - they don't and it will be decision made from far sounder grounding that which you are saying, which only further shows to say what you are saying is really what you wish to be true rather than that would be. 

Edited April 22, 2020 by Hacksaw Jim Duggan

[Hacksaw Jim Duggan]

4 minutes ago, Stoke Potter said:

It was stated that even Tai Woffinden (who may have even been World Champ at the time) would do little to increase numbers

That is just patently nonsense. 

[mikebv]

12 minutes ago, Hacksaw Jim Duggan said:

It is still relevant to the general point which is - people will turn up regardless of who is on show, yes they will, just not many, or for that matter even close to as many.

As an addition re what you are saying, if it was a truism the promotion would be best served not bothering their time with the Premiership and simply going Championship.... same crowds, less costs etc - they don't and it will be decision mad from far sounder grounding that which you are saying, which only further shows to say what you are saying is really what you wish to be true rather than that would be. 

If the Championship was the 'only ticket in town' and the Aces ran at weekends, then crowds would be better than on a Monday or a Thursday night..100%..

Hence the business plan from Messrs Gordon and Morton to the council made it crystal clear that the race night change from Monday and Wednesday was fundamental to their success..

The first year, riding at weekend in the main, they averaged around 1800 which was a massive increase on the previous year at the old place..

Unfortunately over 2000 was their break even budget outlined in their submissions..

The past two seasons haven't seen them get close to an average of 1800 I believe...

Maybe, just maybe, Monday, Wednesdays and Thursdays are not as good?

Or maybe it's having no Matej Zagar after year one?

Going back to the Colts, if they were the only Speedway team going in Manchester, they would still get very decent crowds at weekends I would say..

Edited April 22, 2020 by mikebv

[Hacksaw Jim Duggan]

3 minutes ago, mikebv said:

If the Championship was the 'only ticket in town'

But it's not, and they choose not to ride in it. The rest of your post is just filibustering gibberish. 

Edited April 22, 2020 by Hacksaw Jim Duggan

[mikebv]

10 minutes ago, Hacksaw Jim Duggan said:

That is just patently nonsense. 

Filibustering gibberish...

[Hacksaw Jim Duggan]

3 minutes ago, mikebv said:

Filibustering gibberish...

No, it clearly isn't, congrats for posting something that is actually posted in a readable structure though, a nice change. 

Or

Should that be 

a

nice

change 

Edited April 22, 2020 by Hacksaw Jim Duggan

[mikebv]

9 minutes ago, Hacksaw Jim Duggan said:

No, it clearly isn't, congrats for posting something that is actually posted in a readable structure though, a nice change. 

Or

Should that be 

a

nice

change 

Are these lighter nights keeping you up a bit later than usual..?

Sorry..

Later

than

usual...

Edited April 22, 2020 by mikebv

[Hacksaw Jim Duggan]

Just now, mikebv said:

Are these lighter nights keeping you up a bit later than usual..?

What 

are you slobbering

on

about 

dafty

[Crabba59]

You do talk alot of crap when it comes to tracks. How do you solve the problem where tracks share with dogs? All you keep talking about is the NSS ! We all know it's the best but you're never going  to get all the tracks the same. But with better track preparation and at least the bspa are doing something about that this year if we get a season. 

[HGould]

Spot on Crabba.

So Stoke Potter (how ironic) would close any track with a dog track as dog racing is in a worse place than speedway???

Maybe he'd like to visit Perry Barr and Monmore Green and see the outstanding Spectator facilities, add Sheffield and a few others.

Then he might like to enquire what % of the income of those tracks come from Dogs and Speedway.

I'll give him a clue, Speedway is probably less than 10%??

Has he never heard of Betting turnover?

Then he might like to go to Mildenhall, Ipswich and Eastbourne and a few others and ask them what % of income comes from Stocks v Speedway. I would estimate 70-80% is from the Stock Cars.

Stop talking baloney about Tracks.

Edited April 22, 2020 by HGould
Spelling predictive

[arthur cross]

1 hour ago, Stoke Potter said:

Greyhound racing must be one of the few sports with a darker future than Speedway, relying on them for facilities is another, not so minor, flaw in the plan...

The greyhounds were still running, albeit behind closed doors purely for the online gambling market, while Boris Johnson was announcing the UK lockdown on the evening of Monday 23rd March - indeed, Nottingham & Yarmouth were allowed to complete the last few races of their respective schedules that night rather than calling a halt as he spoke so they were both still racing around half-an-hour into the lockdown.

Whenever there is any easing of the lockdown, the dogs will be among the earliest sports to resume - their medical cover (the vet) isn't a drain on scarce medical resources for humans (unlike any human-tackling, motor or equestrian sports) which is why they could continue all the way until the lockdown started - meanwhile, their long-standing network of picture-feeds and media-rights that brings in online gambling revenue means they can fund a hefty chunk of their usual action without a single spectator being needed via the turnstiles.

There might not be as much greyhound racing post-coronavirus as there was before it - however, there'll be plenty of it for a good few weeks (probably months) before any spectator-reliant sports like speedway or non-league football welcome their vital funding back onto the terraces.

By the way, once they can resume, each of Monmore and Perry Barr will earn more in greyhound media-rights for closed-door meetings in a fortnight than they earn in speedway stadium rent in a year - don't forget as well, the dogs (bar very occasional wintry weather) run all 12 months of the year, not just a much more weather-dependent schedule from March until October.

You're welcome to your view that the greyhounds must have a darker future than speedway - you're also welcome to wallow in such ignorance. 

[SteveLyric2]

3 hours ago, mikebv said:

Spot on..

In the past 30 years attendances have steadily declined overall and for much of that continual decline we had the 'world's best' riding, which, to keep them, meant regular inflation busting admission increases year on year, which in no small part, resulted in less followers..

The Premiership clubs get the best attendances because there is a 'natural' selection based on the history of each club, not because of 'who is there'..

If the Aces dropped down for example, and rode on Friday or Saturdays, there certainly wouldn't be any less there than currently, and quite possibly many more given how many attended 'weekend Speedway' the first year in the NSS. Therefore the Aces have enough followers to be 'top division'..

Glasgow I would suggest now get close to, if not better than, some Premiership clubs' attendances with 'lesser' riders (although many are the same!), so they are becoming a bigger name in the sport after historically being one of the 'lower league clubs'. After a few years of this they too may become 'naturally' a top division team if the crowds keep at those levels..

Leicester dropped a division, lost the World Champ, changed nights and improved crowds. Meaning their 'natural level' to be successful as a business is, I would suggest, the second tier..

And Cradley in the NL had better crowds than Wolves and if they had a track to race on would immediately be top division I would say given that's their 'natural' level given their crowd numbers... 

Some clubs in the second division could have Nikki P and Jason Crump riding for them next year and after a month I can virtually guarantee crowds would be pretty much as normal, because that is their 'natural level of crowd', hence they stay where they are.. 

Bringing 'big names' back wont bring 'big crowds' back.

Because when they were all there, big crowds became smaller crowds..

As good a job as the Glasgow promotion have currently done with their stadium, their recent video shows that attendances have not grown substantially and they are still losing £100k a year.  Surely not the basis to consider a 'natural' progression to be a top division team?!

[Stoke Potter]

13 minutes ago, arthur cross said:

The greyhounds were still running, albeit behind closed doors purely for the online gambling market, while Boris Johnson was announcing the UK lockdown on the evening of Monday 23rd March - indeed, Nottingham & Yarmouth were allowed to complete the last few races of their respective schedules that night rather than calling a halt as he spoke so they were both still racing around half-an-hour into the lockdown.

Whenever there is any easing of the lockdown, the dogs will be among the earliest sports to resume - their medical cover (the vet) isn't a drain on scarce medical resources for humans (unlike any human-tackling, motor or equestrian sports) which is why they could continue all the way until the lockdown started - meanwhile, their long-standing network of picture-feeds and media-rights that brings in online gambling revenue means they can fund a hefty chunk of their usual action without a single spectator being needed via the turnstiles.

There might not be as much greyhound racing post-coronavirus as there was before it - however, there'll be plenty of it for a good few weeks (probably months) before any spectator-reliant sports like speedway or non-league football welcome their vital funding back onto the terraces.

By the way, once they can resume, each of Monmore and Perry Barr will earn more in greyhound media-rights for closed-door meetings in a fortnight than they earn in speedway stadium rent in a year - don't forget as well, the dogs (bar very occasional wintry weather) run all 12 months of the year, not just a much more weather-dependent schedule from March until October.

You're welcome to your view that the greyhounds must have a darker future than speedway - you're also welcome to wallow in such ignorance. 

You're missing the point.  In these politically correct times Greyhound Racing is, rightly or wrongly, seen as barbaric and out of place in the 21st century.  Wallow in your own ignorance.

[Crabba59]

18 minutes ago, Stoke Potter said:

You're missing the point.  In these politically correct times Greyhound Racing is, rightly or wrongly, seen as barbaric and out of place in the 21st century.  Wallow in your own ignorance.

Stoke potter still waiting to hear your response on tracks with greyhounds how you can change the shapes? But like I've said I agree with you that track preparation does need to be more consistent. 

[DC2]

9 hours ago, MattK said:

Over the last ten years the standard of riders in the Elite League/Premiership has declined and this has coincided with a decline in spectator number.

This is an indisputable fact.

 

Is it indisputable?  Maybe in terms of half a dozen lost GP riders, but otherwise?

If you compared two of Swindon’s best teams over recent years, considering how the riders performed in those seasons and not on their reputations, I wouldn’t be so sure that the 2007 one would thrash the 2019 one:

2007

Adams

Chrzanowski

Gjedde

Ulamek

Richardson

Korneliesen

Moore

2019

Doyle

Ellis

Musielak

Jensen

Batchelor

Vissing

Perks