British Speedway to be reborn?

[Crabba59]

57 minutes ago, Stoke Potter said:

I agree that tracks aren't the magic key to fix everything but sorting them is one of the biggest single things you can do to save the sport and improve the entertainment.

If the NSS had been built 20 years ago I'd wager they would have retained more fans to the present day.

And if every track was like the NSS then the image of no racing/passing would not hold water.

We all know the NNS is the best in the country but even there you don't see passing in every race. If you think back to the world cup a few years ago the race off on the Friday was boring racing with very little passing,  but you are right about shape and width.  

[barrybishop]

22 hours ago, jchapman said:

I never knew about this, what engines were these and how much do they cost?

This was the NICE 2v 500cc Challenge. 13 2v Jawa engines, untuned, standard, and sealed fitted in to the riders own rolling chassis. The riders drew a ballot for engines, had oil supplied, tyres supplied and fuel... so everyone was on an even keel for racing. Then it was down to setup and rider skill. The result was close racing, unexpected heat winners, elbows, breathtaking passes and an all round great night of entertainment.

 

[Theboss]

13 hours ago, RobMcCaffery said:

It works in Sweden but that is a different society and economy to ours. 

I think the Isle of Wight meeting mentioned by someone earlie=er is this one:

 

These bikes look good enough to me, they are smooth due to not being too highly tuned. If they are reliable and reduce the amount of crashes because they are not picking up mid corner then they could fit the bill.

Could stick to riders bringing their own bikes and engines or each club could provide the engines on the night which are drawn by ballot, riders only need to bring their frames and each club provides a practice session prior to the start of the meeting. For practice sessions riders would have their own stock engines.

Any ideas how much these engines are?

[Stoke Potter]

4 minutes ago, barrybishop said:

This was the NICE 2v 500cc Challenge. 13 2v Jawa engines, untuned, standard, and sealed fitted in to the riders own rolling chassis. The riders drew a ballot for engines, had oil supplied, tyres supplied and fuel... so everyone was on an even keel for racing. Then it was down to setup and rider skill. The result was close racing, unexpected heat winners, elbows, breathtaking passes and an all round great night of entertainment.

 

Incidentally Barry Bishop appears to have the space to modify his track to be like the NSS but would he do it..?

[barrybishop]

31 minutes ago, Stoke Potter said:

Incidentally Barry Bishop appears to have the space to modify his track to be like the NSS but would he do it..?

The resizing of our track is not really possible due to the many other users of the stadium.

 

[Stoke Potter]

18 minutes ago, barrybishop said:

The resizing of our track is not really possible due to the many other users of the stadium.

 

Fair enough, thank you for answering.

Edited April 21, 2020 by Stoke Potter

[FAST GATER]

17 hours ago, Stoke Potter said:

The basic product is no good and not attractive to the paying public in sufficient numbers. 
First thing to be done is fix the tracks, NSS apart.

Still say make the bikes more suited to the  tracks / user friendly as MR Bishop  did in his comp ,we got out of the sport because of the costs and would consider coming back if it was run along strict engine control.

[Stoke Potter]

I don't dismiss at all that something needs to be done with the engines and I'm sure people who have been involved in the past such as yourself could (and should) advise in that regard.  From what I gather, one of the features of the modern engines is that they are difficult to optimally setup with little margin of error.  What could be done with the current engines to improve that?

I don't really see how the UK could go it alone with a particular engine type/config, to me it would marginalise the sport further, i.e. it would be different from European, Australian, etc. Speedway.

British Speedway could fix it's tracks and that would actually bring it more in line with Poland for example.  I don't see how changing the rules on new tracks has any negative effect on anyone currently in the sport, why wouldn't it be done?

To completely "fix" the sport you have to:

Sort the tracks,

Sort the engines,

Have totally evenly matched teams,

Have a proper/better incentive/payment scheme for the riders,

and bring back weekend racing.

None of that is easy and fixing the tracks is actually one of the easier things on the list...

[Crabba59]

How do you fix tracks? In which way? 

[FAST GATER]

17 minutes ago, Stoke Potter said:

I don't dismiss at all that something needs to be done with the engines and I'm sure people who have been involved in the past such as yourself could (and should) advise in that regard.  From what I gather, one of the features of the modern engines is that they are difficult to optimally setup with little margin of error.  What could be done with the current engines to improve that?

I don't really see how the UK could go it alone with a particular engine type/config, to me it would marginalise the sport further, i.e. it would be different from European, Australian, etc. Speedway.

British Speedway could fix it's tracks and that would actually bring it more in line with Poland for example.  I don't see how changing the rules on new tracks has any negative effect on anyone currently in the sport, why wouldn't it be done?

To completely "fix" the sport you have to:

Sort the tracks,

Sort the engines,

Have totally evenly matched teams,

Have a proper/better incentive/payment scheme for the riders,

and bring back weekend racing.

None of that is easy and fixing the tracks is actually one of the easier things on the list...

Good points really think weekend racing would make a difference just the influence of the GP's to deal with .

[Ben91]

The common thread between everyone reading and posting on this thread is that we are all Speedway fans. Even if our opinions on the whys and wherefores differ, the majority of us, I think it is safe to say, agree that something in British Speedway needs to change. This isn’t a viewpoint driven by the current situation regarding Covid-19 either but a long standing belief held by many of the most important people in the sport. The fans. 

Each of us have an opinion of what the main problem is with the sport - that one thing we would like to see fixed personally. But in reality the issues are deep rooted and multi-faceted. There is not one quick fix for British Speedway and I don’t think there has been for as long as I have been a fan. I began to make a list of things that could be seen as issues within the sport here by fans. It is not exhaustive, I'm sure we could add to it, but it is very long. These issues are not necessarily my opinion either. Some of the issues overlap of course but that just proves that the troubles within the sport are not black and white:

Racing isn’t good enough.

British riders aren’t good enough.

Too many foreign riders taking spots Brits could fill.

Riders want to be paid more money.

The sport is too expensive for the fan (no value for money).

Meetings take too long.

No additional entertainment at meetings.

Race night issues, clashes with foreign leagues.

Doubling up.

Competition and race formats. 

Guests, R/R etc.

Averages and average manipulation. 

No big names in the top league.

Facilities aren’t good enough.

The reality of the situation is simple. We must rip it up and start again. Now is as good a time as any to do so. With correct planning we could reboot British Speedway in time for the 2021 season with a model built for the long term success of the sport in this country and aspirations for it to thrive once again long term. 

2020 could still be salvaged depending on how much of a summer we are left with, however this could be focussed less around the team aspect of the sport and more around an individual element, with a focus on the British Championship, perhaps being run over a series of qualifying rounds culminating in a small GP style competition. 

 

[Stoke Potter]

I have just watched the IoW meeting mentioned earlier.  The analysis is as follows:

15 Heats

7 passes in total

9 heats had 0 passes

Riders still spread out by the length of the straight.

Conclusion:  Changing engines will make zero difference to the racing spectacle.

That conclusion is purely based on this 1 meeting so obviously isn't fair and reasonable, also the riders weren't particularly evenly matched.  The racing could possibly have been better with a more even line-up.  

I have been to IoW 4 or 5 times in the past and that was fairly typical of the racing served up there.

This is not meant as a criticism of the efforts of the IoW promotion.

I, and (surely) every other speedway fan in the world, want this:  

And nobody try and tell me there's no throttle control or track craft on display here.  It's no coincidence it's at Belle Vue!

[steve roberts]

1 hour ago, Crabba59 said:

How do you fix tracks? In which way? 

I recall Dave Morton saying that his home track had placed a "band of grip" that only the home riders were aware of...or something similar.

[Stoke Potter]

1 hour ago, Crabba59 said:

How do you fix tracks? In which way? 

The majority of British tracks are either too narrow, too short, have sub optimal bend radius, lack appropriate banking, or suffer from consistently poor surface preparation.

Or a combination of some or all of those things. 

Essentially most of them need to bigger and wider.

[Crabba59]

11 minutes ago, Stoke Potter said:

The majority of British tracks are either too narrow, too short, have sub optimal bend radius, lack appropriate banking, or suffer from consistently poor surface preparation.

Or a combination of some or all of those things. 

Essentially most of them need to bigger and wider.

The biggest problem with some tracks is they cannot change their tracks down to sharing with dogs ie wolves Newcastle to name a few. But do agree with you that track preparation does need to be a lot more consistent 

[Chris116]

55 minutes ago, Stoke Potter said:

The majority of British tracks are either too narrow, too short, have sub optimal bend radius, lack appropriate banking, or suffer from consistently poor surface preparation.

Or a combination of some or all of those things. 

Essentially most of them need to bigger and wider.

Back in the 1960's I used to watch racing at Wimbledon, Hackney, West Ham and New Cross. As a kid I never liked West Ham because there were such large gaps between the riders after the first lap. I loved New Cross as they were all bunched up and even if they never passed each other it looked good.

Wider, I would agree makes passing easier but that can be a double edged sword as the top rider misses the gate and can easily make a pass on the reserve who made the gate! 

There are arguments for and against all sizes and shapes of tracks but the thing that is a problem is that the current engines cost far too much for the riders.

[customhouseregular]

8 minutes ago, Chris116 said:

Back in the 1960's I used to watch racing at Wimbledon, Hackney, West Ham and New Cross. As a kid I never liked West Ham because there were such large gaps between the riders after the first lap. I loved New Cross as they were all bunched up and even if they never passed each other it looked good.

Wider, I would agree makes passing easier but that can be a double edged sword as the top rider misses the gate and can easily make a pass on the reserve who made the gate! 

There are arguments for and against all sizes and shapes of tracks but the thing that is a problem is that the current engines cost far too much for the riders.

West Ham was a very big track and yes, it could produce strung out heats. But... if Sverre, Bjorn, Christer and the really fast visitors, e. g. Briggs missed the gate, they had plenty of time to hunt down the leaders. I went to Hackney and Wimbledon regularly and always enjoyed my visits, but West Ham could and often was the most exciting place to watch speedway.

[Chris116]

Just now, customhouseregular said:

West Ham was a very big track and yes, it could produce strung out heats. But... if Sverre, Bjorn, Christer and the really fast visitors, e. g. Briggs missed the gate, they had plenty of time to hunt down the leaders. I went to Hackney and Wimbledon regularly and always enjoyed my visits, but West Ham could and often was the most exciting place to watch speedway.

I saw the crash when Sverre was injured on the third/forth bend and a lot of other racing there and while it had its moments I always liked the smaller tracks. That said I loved my visits to Hyde Road to listen to my mother cheer her Aces. She never wanted to go there after Peter Craven was killed and I therefore in later years only saw the BriSCA F1's there.

[HGould]

1 hour ago, Stoke Potter said:

The majority of British tracks are either too narrow, too short, have sub optimal bend radius, lack appropriate banking, or suffer from consistently poor surface preparation.

Or a combination of some or all of those things. 

Essentially most of them need to bigger and wider.

I think that you are spoiling what could be an interesting thread by living in cloud cuckoo land. 

90% of tracks are the shape and size and have the dimensions they do out of decades old necessity. 

You write off one track based on a video clip and have an obsession with another. 

Any rebirth or renaissance has to be practical possible and sensible. 

I'm out. 

[customhouseregular]

1 hour ago, Chris116 said:

I saw the crash when Sverre was injured on the third/forth bend and a lot of other racing there and while it had its moments I always liked the smaller tracks. That said I loved my visits to Hyde Road to listen to my mother cheer her Aces. She never wanted to go there after Peter Craven was killed and I therefore in later years only saw the BriSCA F1's there.

Sadly I never saw Peter Craven ride. I went to Hyde Road for all the BLRC meetings Briggo won . An excellent track and very enjoyable meetings.